Need Advice Loading For TC Encore 45-70 Gov't

riverwalker76 · July 22, 2011, 08:48 PM

I've spoken to several people about this topic, and no one can agree on anything.

When I look in Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, and Lee reloading manuals they all list different data for Modern (Ruger Single Shot) , Rolling Block, and Marlin 1895 rifles.

What data should I use?

It's confusing when I have a modern rifle and barrel, but want to use a single shot load.

Any suggestions?

I'm using Winchester Brass and lead cast bullets in 340 gr. & 450 gr. I also plan to use IMR 3031 for the powder, but am open to suggestions.

Thanks

longranger · July 22, 2011, 09:01 PM

Use published reloading data only.

This a great link for loads.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Trail Boss has been popular in 45-70 check the link for cast bullets and the Lyman book has good cast bullet info.
Also look at the Trapdoor data for cast bullets, probably pushing them faster than 1200-1300 fps might give you some leading depending how hard or soft they are.

riverwalker76 · July 22, 2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longranger

Use published reloading data only.

This a great link for loads.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

I've already looked over that data, and it's useless. I'm using 340 gr. & 450 gr. lead cast bullets.

Also, my problem is that they list the three categories as "Trapdoor", Modern" & "Lever Action".

Which one do I use? This is the problem I am running into with ALL of my aforementioned manuals. ie: Sierra, Lyman, Lee, and Hornady

mikejonestkd · July 22, 2011, 10:07 PM

An encore can be chambered in most modern cartridges, with pressures running easily into the upper 50K CUP/ lower 60K psi range, so even a Ruger only load ( 40K CUP range) will still be well within the acceptable range for the firearm to handle. Still it'll be heck on your shoulder....

best of luck

riverwalker76 · July 22, 2011, 10:59 PM

That's what I was thinking, but I was wanting to confirm with other people.

TC told me to use the Ruger Single Shot data, but then several other TC Encore owners told me I could use any of the data listed for ANY of the categories.

Zildjian · July 22, 2011, 11:27 PM

Try looking in the forum : Cast boolits. You might find someone there in the same boat. Just my 2 ¢. Good luck.

riverwalker76 · July 22, 2011, 11:47 PM

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I got it worked out. I'm going to work on some of the lighter loads listed in the 'Trapdoor' section, and work up to the others.

I'm looking for a comfortable load to shoot, and know that it can get out of hand quickly if I load it too hot.

The last 1895 Guide Gun I had almost broke my collar bone one morning while I was shooting Buffalo Bore cartridges. I don't want that to happen again.

SRH78 · July 23, 2011, 12:04 AM

The loads for the Ruger #1 are a lot hotter than 36K. In fact, the Marlin loads are hotter than 36K as well. I would assume (we all know what you do when you assume) that the Encore would handle the higher pressure loads but i do NOT know that for sure. Personally, I don't see any need to push it past the Marlin loads anyway, especially with lead bullets.

Another powder worth trying is H4198. I have gotten excellent accuracy from that powder.

edit: I guess I should have refreshed the page sooner. If you want comfortable, the trapdoor loads are the way to go. If I remember correctly, the trapdoor loads go up to 28K. That is about where the Marlin data for 3031 and 4198 starts. My loads are fairly close to those starting loads and from my 1895G, they produce quite a bit more recoil than my 30-06 does.

Ideal Tool · July 23, 2011, 01:03 AM

Hello, riverwalker76. You can't go wrong by starting with lower loads. When I first started shooting my Riflesmith .40-70 str. (2 1/2"). I called Hodgdon & they gave me suggested start loads for cast bullets with H4895 & Varget. Just to be safe, I started a few grains below these loads..experimenting proved these lighter than recommended start loads were more accurate than suggested ones. My rifle is a 10lb. match rifle..If I start pushing much over 400grs. of lead it hurts! My most accurate bullet for 100yd. shooting weighs 300grs. Best of luck!

fredneck · July 23, 2011, 08:25 PM

Try Accurate Arms 5744 for cast loads. Accurate as heck in my Guide Gun and Browning High Wall. Doesn't beat you to death either. Any of the lighter loads will do for just about any deer out there. Varget for the jacketed hotter stuff. I would stay away from the Ruger #1 levels in the Encore myself. It's a strong gun, but pretty light in weight. You'll see what I mean when you touch off a max load of Varget with a 400 grain jacketed.

TX Nimrod · July 24, 2011, 09:08 PM

You are right to be confused. The loading manual publishers cannot decide what is a safe pressure for the various .45-70 rifles either. For example, these are the maximum pressures listed for the three .45-70 rifle catagories:

Data Source.Trapdoor.…Marlin…..Ruger (CUP)
Lyman…….……18,000…..28,000….40,000
Speer…….…….21,000…..28,000….35,000
Hornady……….25,000…..40,000….50,000
Hodgdon………28,000…..40,000….50,000
Factory……..…18,000 reported

You will find that Ruger-level loads in the relatively lightweight Encore will be very unpleasant to shoot. They are too high in pressure for cast bullet as well. Trapdoor level loads work well for cast bullets, and Lyman lists loads for bullets close to what you have.

330 cast - 43.0/IMR3031 - 1338 fps/10,000 CUP
330 cast - 47.5/IMR3031 - 1532 fps/15,300 CUP
475 cast - 47.0/IMR3031 - 1657 fps/32,400 CUP

That last load will have substantial recoil, feel free to reduce 15%....

.

.

troy_mclure · July 25, 2011, 09:31 PM

i traded off my 22" .45/70 encore barrel. the ruger level loads were just brutal with that light gun.
and the trapdoor level plinking loads were just too expensive for playing at the range, even casting my own.

abber · July 26, 2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

I'm looking for a comfortable load to shoot

Then why did you buy a 45-70?

Just joking, I just bought one myself, and am already questioning my sanity (not for the first time). Mine is a Marlin 1895, which I have already loaded ammo for, albeit for a friend of mine, because I haven't picked mine up yet. Using a 350 grain Hornady semi-jacketed bullet seated over 55.0 grains of 3031, that thing was beating the heck out of us. That is the way my friend likes them. I am going to lighten them up for myself, but I would imagine your Thompson can take everything a Marlin can, and then some.

July 22, 2011, 09:01 PM	#2
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	Use published reloading data only. This a great link for loads. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp Trail Boss has been popular in 45-70 check the link for cast bullets and the Lyman book has good cast bullet info. Also look at the Trapdoor data for cast bullets, probably pushing them faster than 1200-1300 fps might give you some leading depending how hard or soft they are. Last edited by longranger; July 22, 2011 at 09:11 PM.

July 22, 2011, 10:07 PM	#4
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	An encore can be chambered in most modern cartridges, with pressures running easily into the upper 50K CUP/ lower 60K psi range, so even a Ruger only load ( 40K CUP range) will still be well within the acceptable range for the firearm to handle. Still it'll be heck on your shoulder.... best of luck __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. Last edited by mikejonestkd; July 23, 2011 at 07:29 AM. Reason: Trapdoor - 18k, Marlin - 28k, Ruger - 40K

July 22, 2011, 10:59 PM	#5
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	That's what I was thinking, but I was wanting to confirm with other people. TC told me to use the Ruger Single Shot data, but then several other TC Encore owners told me I could use any of the data listed for ANY of the categories. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

July 22, 2011, 11:27 PM	#6
Zildjian Member Join Date: October 2, 2009 Location: Ballinger, Tx. Posts: 47	Need Advice Loading For TC Encore 45-70 Gov't Try looking in the forum : Cast boolits. You might find someone there in the same boat. Just my 2 ¢. Good luck. __________________ I Dont know you....but I have met you 1,000 times before.

July 22, 2011, 11:47 PM	#7
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Thanks for all of the advice. I think I got it worked out. I'm going to work on some of the lighter loads listed in the 'Trapdoor' section, and work up to the others. I'm looking for a comfortable load to shoot, and know that it can get out of hand quickly if I load it too hot. The last 1895 Guide Gun I had almost broke my collar bone one morning while I was shooting Buffalo Bore cartridges. I don't want that to happen again. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

July 22, 2011, 08:48 PM	#1
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Need Advice Loading For TC Encore 45-70 Gov't I've spoken to several people about this topic, and no one can agree on anything. When I look in Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, and Lee reloading manuals they all list different data for Modern (Ruger Single Shot) , Rolling Block, and Marlin 1895 rifles. What data should I use? It's confusing when I have a modern rifle and barrel, but want to use a single shot load. Any suggestions? I'm using Winchester Brass and lead cast bullets in 340 gr. & 450 gr. I also plan to use IMR 3031 for the powder, but am open to suggestions. Thanks __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

July 23, 2011, 12:04 AM	#8
SRH78 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 517	The loads for the Ruger #1 are a lot hotter than 36K. In fact, the Marlin loads are hotter than 36K as well. I would assume (we all know what you do when you assume) that the Encore would handle the higher pressure loads but i do NOT know that for sure. Personally, I don't see any need to push it past the Marlin loads anyway, especially with lead bullets. Another powder worth trying is H4198. I have gotten excellent accuracy from that powder. edit: I guess I should have refreshed the page sooner. If you want comfortable, the trapdoor loads are the way to go. If I remember correctly, the trapdoor loads go up to 28K. That is about where the Marlin data for 3031 and 4198 starts. My loads are fairly close to those starting loads and from my 1895G, they produce quite a bit more recoil than my 30-06 does. Last edited by SRH78; July 23, 2011 at 12:17 AM.

July 23, 2011, 01:03 AM	#9
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, riverwalker76. You can't go wrong by starting with lower loads. When I first started shooting my Riflesmith .40-70 str. (2 1/2"). I called Hodgdon & they gave me suggested start loads for cast bullets with H4895 & Varget. Just to be safe, I started a few grains below these loads..experimenting proved these lighter than recommended start loads were more accurate than suggested ones. My rifle is a 10lb. match rifle..If I start pushing much over 400grs. of lead it hurts! My most accurate bullet for 100yd. shooting weighs 300grs. Best of luck!

July 23, 2011, 08:25 PM	#10
fredneck Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 136	Try Accurate Arms 5744 for cast loads. Accurate as heck in my Guide Gun and Browning High Wall. Doesn't beat you to death either. Any of the lighter loads will do for just about any deer out there. Varget for the jacketed hotter stuff. I would stay away from the Ruger #1 levels in the Encore myself. It's a strong gun, but pretty light in weight. You'll see what I mean when you touch off a max load of Varget with a 400 grain jacketed.

July 24, 2011, 09:08 PM	#11
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 423	You are right to be confused. The loading manual publishers cannot decide what is a safe pressure for the various .45-70 rifles either. For example, these are the maximum pressures listed for the three .45-70 rifle catagories: Data Source.Trapdoor.…Marlin…..Ruger (CUP) Lyman…….……18,000…..28,000….40,000 Speer…….…….21,000…..28,000….35,000 Hornady……….25,000…..40,000….50,000 Hodgdon………28,000…..40,000….50,000 Factory……..…18,000 reported You will find that Ruger-level loads in the relatively lightweight Encore will be very unpleasant to shoot. They are too high in pressure for cast bullet as well. Trapdoor level loads work well for cast bullets, and Lyman lists loads for bullets close to what you have. 330 cast - 43.0/IMR3031 - 1338 fps/10,000 CUP 330 cast - 47.5/IMR3031 - 1532 fps/15,300 CUP 475 cast - 47.0/IMR3031 - 1657 fps/32,400 CUP That last load will have substantial recoil, feel free to reduce 15%.... . .

July 25, 2011, 09:31 PM	#12
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i traded off my 22" .45/70 encore barrel. the ruger level loads were just brutal with that light gun. and the trapdoor level plinking loads were just too expensive for playing at the range, even casting my own. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

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