October 22, 2011, 04:20 PM | #1 | |
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.30 Carbine for Whitetail
Well, I've been way to busy with school or work to sight in my .270 this year, and since I only have 2 days to hunt (opening day and Thanksgiving) I've decided to say frig it and just hunt with either my .35 remington, m1 carbine, or 12 gauge with 00 buck in one barrell and slug in the other.
I know the gun I'm most accurate with is the m1 carbine, as I'm killing paper out to 250 yards with the open sights (good for me). I know people hunt with .44 mags and .357s, and the fact that the .30 carbine has more energy than both of those means it will kill a deer. The only problem is that I'll be hunting the brush and clearcuts with my buddies where I could have a 200 yard shot, or 15 feet (it's happened). I just want to know how bad you think these bullets will deflect off branches, and also if there would be enough energy left at 250 yards to kill a 190 lbs. buck with a descent shot. Thanks.
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October 22, 2011, 04:58 PM | #2 |
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To answer your last questions, all bullets deflect in brush and no, you will not have enough energy even at 100 yards. Yes, the 7.62x33 shades the .357 in muzzle energy, but it falls substantially behind a typical .44 mag hunting load. That's not the biggest problem, however. The bullets for the .30 carbine are generally not designed for hunting. It's more than energy. You say you have a .35 Remington? Why not take that? Under 200 yards, I can't think of many better deer rounds.
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October 22, 2011, 05:10 PM | #3 | |
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The sights on my .35 Remington are atrocious. I've been meaning to have the local gunsmith put some peeps on it, but I don't have alot of time.
I can't hit anything past 100 yards with the stock sights, but I might end up taking it anyways. I thought the carbine would be a killer out to 200 yards, but with only 700 lbs. of energy at 100 yards, I am doubting this now... I do have some hollow points for it as I wasn't planning on hunting with FMJ, but I'm starting to lose confidence with it.
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October 22, 2011, 05:12 PM | #4 |
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I would use the M1 carbine, loaded with soft points, for deer in the same situations I would use a hunting handgun. Not for 200yd shots.
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October 22, 2011, 09:19 PM | #5 |
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Do you have the self control to refrain from shooting over 100 yards? If so, then take the 30 carbine and use it. Otherwise, spend 1/2 day checking the sights on a REAL deer rifle and the other 1/2 day hunting. The 30 carbine has neither the bullet weight or the velocity to be effective on deer over 75-100 yards.
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October 22, 2011, 09:57 PM | #6 | |
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I installed an XS Sight Systems LeverScout Mount and a 2.5x pistol scope on my daughter's 30/30 ..... took about 30 minutes. 6 rounds to sight it in. She was bustin' milk jugs full of water at 150 yards on Sunday, and she's 15...... I'm sure you could manage 200 yards with such a set-up. |
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October 22, 2011, 11:23 PM | #7 |
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The .30 carbine was illegal to use for deer in our state, along with 9mm luger and many other specific cartridges. For decades, IIRC, there was a 90 grain minimum limit for deer, regardless of caliber. Nothing smaller than 6 mm was legal.
I don't think that a 30 carbine is a good deer gun. I don't recommend it on deer, and the army rejected it for use on people. Those soft points are hardly performance ammo, btw. Coyote or raccoon, nothing bigger, IMO. |
October 23, 2011, 08:29 PM | #8 |
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For comparable bullet weights, the 30 Carbine has as much energy at 100 yards as a 357 handgun has at the muzzle, so the idea that it doesn't have enough energy at 100 yards is not accurate. That being said, the M1 Carbine, like any firearm, has its limits and I set them (for me) at 100 yards for whitetails based on available energy and my ability to place shots with it in the field.
I took two does with mine last year, both at around 50 yards, and neither one took a step from where it was hit (neck shots). The one bullet I did recover was a soft point that had mushroomed to over half an inch - excellent performance by any standard. For the hunting you described, I would put Skinner sights on the 35 Remington (I'm assuming you are referring to a Marlin 336) and take that in the event something nice comes along at more than 100 yards. On a side note, the US created the 30 Carbine cartridge and the M1 Carbine expressly for use on enemy personnel, and the military was impressed enough with its performance that it ordered more than five million of them. I believe both are still in use today in the Israeli military, among others. |
October 23, 2011, 09:10 PM | #9 | |
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...... and it is only valid if you exclude contender or heavy Ruger loads......... It is still not a legal rifle cartridge in Nebraska..... not by nearly half. Some say that the law uses an arbitrary standard, but it was developed with input from hunters, and it keeps a lot of yahoos from maiming deer with something they thought looked "cool" at a gunshow or estate sale. |
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October 23, 2011, 09:13 PM | #10 | |
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October 23, 2011, 10:05 PM | #11 | |||
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October 23, 2011, 10:36 PM | #12 |
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Ohio permits handguns with 5 inch barrels in 357mag. I have no doubt that an M1 carbine used properly would be an excellent deer gun here...were it legal.
Nice Pic: http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...8&d=1255804491
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October 23, 2011, 11:13 PM | #13 | |
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I've killed deer with a M1 carbine. First rifle I ever killed a deer with in fact. But and impressive deer stomper it's not. First I agree with those who say keep the shots 100 yards and in. And second if there is any way to get a better sight on the 35 Remington that would be a much better choice.
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October 23, 2011, 11:49 PM | #14 | |
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October 24, 2011, 12:39 AM | #15 |
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time?
Zero the .270. Or take the .35. You must have some time, you're plinking with the carbine, right?
All bullets deflect off branches. |
October 24, 2011, 08:31 AM | #16 |
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Looking at what the OP has available, my opinion as a carbine owner with decades of experience is that it's the worst possible choice that could be made.
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October 24, 2011, 09:25 AM | #17 |
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Have experience with M1 Carbine...
IF you can take a shot and PLACE IT correctly, then consider it.
If in heavy brush/tag alder, DON'T. Use the commercial 110 gr hp ammo from Winchester or Federal. [Think S&B makes some, not sure.] Smooth / polish the feed ramp of Carbine to minimize stutterring of the soft-nose ammo. Know two others that use the Carbine, one from tree stand took two deer, another used for Wisconsin deer drive. What 's the .35Rem., a lever action?? you can quickly mount a scope if a 336, if a 94 then not so quickly. Or consider a rear peap sight like the Williams "Fool-proof" or 5D. Good luck, chose wisely. |
October 24, 2011, 12:03 PM | #18 | |||||
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October 24, 2011, 12:33 PM | #19 | |
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I understand the time constraints .... but you don't have an hour and a box of shells to check zero on that .270? |
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October 24, 2011, 04:13 PM | #20 |
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For non-shooting bore siting, try nthis...
Get a "Workmate" table vise set-up.
pad the opening and place rifle inside with bolt removed , close clamp to hold rifle. adjust table vise/ rifle assembly to allow you to look down the bore at a corner of a house, street light, etc. Anything over 50 yds is good. the look thru scope anmd adjust the windage to get you "zeroed" sided to side, then adjust elevation to be above the center of your reference. Hit a range to finalize as you should need less than 10 round. I do this to avoid the distractions and crowds at a public range. |
October 24, 2011, 07:33 PM | #21 |
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Good bore sighting tip
and for my .02, if the 270 was sighted in last year and has just set in the cabinet/safe since then, it should only take 2-3 shots to confirm or perhaps slightly tweak the zero for this year.
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October 24, 2011, 08:27 PM | #22 | |
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.30 M1 carbine will work but is a distant 3rd choice. |
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October 24, 2011, 08:28 PM | #23 | |
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I stated already (though not clearly) that my buddy knocked over my .270 that was leaning up against the tailgate and I haven't had a chance to shoot it since.
I've decided to take the .35 remington because I know it can kill a deer at 200 yards, so if I misjudge the distance it will still kill efficiently with a good shot placement. When I say I can't hit anything past 100 yards with the .35, I meant hitting paper plates, and the killzone in a deer is much larger than that.
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October 24, 2011, 11:05 PM | #24 | |
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Youth bows have higher pull weights than that, and are certainly capable of taking deer. Naturally, their effective range is less than bows with higher pull weights. Google "primitive archery". Homemade bow, homemade string, homemade arrow, dead deer. Yet 30 Carbine won't work? Last edited by kasTX; October 24, 2011 at 11:28 PM. |
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October 25, 2011, 02:06 PM | #25 | |
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I've killed deer with the 30 cal carbine when I was a kid. Broadside shot behind the shoulder will kill them. But, they all ran a long ways after the shot; there was not much bullet expansion, and very sparse blood trails. If it's all you have it will work within its limited range. But the 270 or the 35 rem are both hell and gone better choices. |
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