Ruger Old Army

GASCHECK · October 18, 2007, 05:13 PM

Shooters:

I was cleaning my Old Army and decided to take the nipples out and maybe replace them later. So I assembled the gun, and found it couldn't be cocked, the cylinder wouldn't rotate. As a matter of curiosity, what was hanging up?
I appears the hand is well to the center of the where the nipples would be, but something was catching on something. Put the new nipples in and all works fine.

As I said, just curious, no problem.

Also, the percussion caps get blasted to chards, (always did) sometines tie up the cylinder. I use 40 grains of Pyrodex, 'cause I like a good jolt. CCI Magnum caps. Somebody said cut the powder charge. Also, when do you replace the nipples? Do the holes enlarge? Can you gauge them with a rod gauge ? Thanks!
Gascheck

arcticap · October 19, 2007, 04:34 PM

CCI Magnum caps may be a little thicker in the body and powerful which really busts open the cap. Many people say that the Remington Caps split open better and more cleanly for revolver shooting, unless the Rugers are different.
So cutting the powder charge might help, but try another brand of caps too. Would tilting the revolver up and/or sideways when cocking it for the next shot help with the caps binding like it does with the Colts?
Maybe the older nipples were larger in length or diameter, or one wasn't screwed in deep enough.
Most folks replace the nipples when they start to get battered, or if they notice some other wear or fitting problem. I'm not sure if the nipple holes would enlarge with small revolver size powder charges, especially if they are stainless or nipples made of ampco from Thunder Ridge. But I guess that it's possible over a long period of time. Just keep an eye on them and try to keep them clean. Maybe you can gauge nipple hole wear using a nipple pick.

GASCHECK · October 19, 2007, 06:46 PM

Articap:
Well, I use Pyrodex and like the extra fire from the Magnum caps. I like the 40 grain charge because I don't need to use those overpriced wads or filler. Crisco on top. Recoil is mild, compared to my .44 Super Blackhawk which is the same frame.

I got a brainstorm and figure I can use a drill bit set as nipple gauges. Just try one that fits in a new nipple and compare with what is in the gun.

At each session, I take one flask of Pyrodex which gives me 40 or so shots, with no cleaning required of anything, no misfires and I can shoot the gun better than most of my cartridge guns!

I use a H&G conical bullet that I cast, range scrap for metal, a little harder than pure lead but no trouble ramming. No bore leading either.

Unless you must shoot a traditional. I think you can't beat the Ruger in stainless with adjustable sights for a fun gun!
Gascheck

James K · October 19, 2007, 09:45 PM

Hi, Gascheck,

Your query got me curious, so I have been looking at a Ruger Old Army and can't see anything that could cause the problem you describe. I even removed the nipples, and nothing interfered with cylinder rotation. Any more info?

Jim

GASCHECK · October 20, 2007, 12:13 AM

Jim:

Well, I think I am going to have one more range session with it before I shut down for the winter. Then, I take the gun completely apart each year and throw it in a container of hot water and clean the innards thoroughly, remove the nipples from the cylinder, and screw them back in with choke thread grease on the threads. I will fool around with it then and see if I can duplicate the problem. I can't see how I could get the cylinder in the frame at all if it wasn't in correctly.

I seem to have a strange touch with Old Armys. I got a brand new one, and it just wouldn't fire. The caps just wouldn't go off. Tried new nipples, different caps, always took a second hit to work. I sent it back to Ruger and they sent me a new one without comment, saying only that there was a problem!

Gascheck

Jbar4Ranch · October 20, 2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GASCHECK

So I assembled the gun, and found it couldn't be cocked, the cylinder wouldn't rotate. As a matter of curiosity, what was hanging up?

Ya forgot to latch the loading lever and the ram was sticking into the cylinder!

OK, seriously, I dunno. I've got five ROA's and one of them doesn't like CCI caps, but I've never had the problem you describe with any of them.

drdirk · October 21, 2007, 08:05 AM

I have two Ruger Old Army. One is set up with a scope now. Probably one of the only BP revolver scoped! I have cut down the recoil spring it that one since I shoot it mostly with a conversion cylinder now. I found that the Ruger Old Armies actually have a very still main spring and cutting it down a bit makes it just right. Still enough power to set off a cap, but smoother to use.

classicballistx · November 4, 2007, 09:24 PM

I make and sell high performance cylinders for the ROA.

The biggest problem I have found is the profile of the pawl (hand) and the profile of the indices where the pawl meets them. Any burrs will give you nightmares. We incorporate some adjustments to the geometry of the indices.

Another issue is the inconsistency from ROA to ROA of the locking wedge and the lock relief cuts in the cylinder. Too big a cut in any of several dimensions and you don't lock tightly and time precisely. Too small a cut and you don't lock at all (ouch!)

Another is fit on the base-pin. If something is screwed up here, you lose. We like nitrided pins with moly lube. After that, Greenbelt's pin for the ROA is pretty good, but don't forget the moly.

Last are the fit gaps. Inconsistencies in dimensions among Ruger Old Army frames demand that a "fit all" cylinder be sloppily undersized.

If you shoot cheap and dirty powder or you don't clean frequently and correctly, you will probably be better served by a sloppy fit. You may not even notice the difference if your standard is the 15 yard pie plate. If you're shooting for maximum accuracy or maximum ballistic performance, a little more discipline and a close fitting cylinder may be a better proposition.

Nipples are rarely the reason for a bound cylinder. It would take an act of sub-90 IQ to to that. If you want to keep shooting high ballistic performance loads, you may want to go to musket cap tubes (nipples). Musket caps are a lot tougher than pistol caps and the only thing like a match grade percussion cap comes from Germany in musket configuration.

Our cylinder will hold over 47gr (by weight) of 777fff and that will provide a pretty 'snappy' load. It will also blow any pistol cap to pieces and jam the works when you least need a jam - unless you're shooting musket caps. Even with musket caps, though, you need to stay away from smokeless pistol powder loads. Open system ignition just isn't made for pressure handling even though the rest of the gun can stand the gaff.

In 2008, we'll introduce a solution for that.

Wisent

October 18, 2007, 05:13 PM	#1
GASCHECK Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Posts: 218	Ruger Old Army Shooters: I was cleaning my Old Army and decided to take the nipples out and maybe replace them later. So I assembled the gun, and found it couldn't be cocked, the cylinder wouldn't rotate. As a matter of curiosity, what was hanging up? I appears the hand is well to the center of the where the nipples would be, but something was catching on something. Put the new nipples in and all works fine. As I said, just curious, no problem. Also, the percussion caps get blasted to chards, (always did) sometines tie up the cylinder. I use 40 grains of Pyrodex, 'cause I like a good jolt. CCI Magnum caps. Somebody said cut the powder charge. Also, when do you replace the nipples? Do the holes enlarge? Can you gauge them with a rod gauge ? Thanks! Gascheck

October 19, 2007, 04:34 PM	#2
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	CCI Magnum caps may be a little thicker in the body and powerful which really busts open the cap. Many people say that the Remington Caps split open better and more cleanly for revolver shooting, unless the Rugers are different. So cutting the powder charge might help, but try another brand of caps too. Would tilting the revolver up and/or sideways when cocking it for the next shot help with the caps binding like it does with the Colts? Maybe the older nipples were larger in length or diameter, or one wasn't screwed in deep enough. Most folks replace the nipples when they start to get battered, or if they notice some other wear or fitting problem. I'm not sure if the nipple holes would enlarge with small revolver size powder charges, especially if they are stainless or nipples made of ampco from Thunder Ridge. But I guess that it's possible over a long period of time. Just keep an eye on them and try to keep them clean. Maybe you can gauge nipple hole wear using a nipple pick. Last edited by arcticap; October 22, 2007 at 04:19 AM.

November 4, 2007, 09:24 PM	#8
classicballistx Junior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: the Upper Sabine in Texas Posts: 2	ROA problems I make and sell high performance cylinders for the ROA. The biggest problem I have found is the profile of the pawl (hand) and the profile of the indices where the pawl meets them. Any burrs will give you nightmares. We incorporate some adjustments to the geometry of the indices. Another issue is the inconsistency from ROA to ROA of the locking wedge and the lock relief cuts in the cylinder. Too big a cut in any of several dimensions and you don't lock tightly and time precisely. Too small a cut and you don't lock at all (ouch!) Another is fit on the base-pin. If something is screwed up here, you lose. We like nitrided pins with moly lube. After that, Greenbelt's pin for the ROA is pretty good, but don't forget the moly. Last are the fit gaps. Inconsistencies in dimensions among Ruger Old Army frames demand that a "fit all" cylinder be sloppily undersized. If you shoot cheap and dirty powder or you don't clean frequently and correctly, you will probably be better served by a sloppy fit. You may not even notice the difference if your standard is the 15 yard pie plate. If you're shooting for maximum accuracy or maximum ballistic performance, a little more discipline and a close fitting cylinder may be a better proposition. Nipples are rarely the reason for a bound cylinder. It would take an act of sub-90 IQ to to that. If you want to keep shooting high ballistic performance loads, you may want to go to musket cap tubes (nipples). Musket caps are a lot tougher than pistol caps and the only thing like a match grade percussion cap comes from Germany in musket configuration. Our cylinder will hold over 47gr (by weight) of 777fff and that will provide a pretty 'snappy' load. It will also blow any pistol cap to pieces and jam the works when you least need a jam - unless you're shooting musket caps. Even with musket caps, though, you need to stay away from smokeless pistol powder loads. Open system ignition just isn't made for pressure handling even though the rest of the gun can stand the gaff. In 2008, we'll introduce a solution for that. Wisent Last edited by classicballistx; November 4, 2007 at 09:24 PM. Reason: spelling

October 19, 2007, 06:46 PM	#3
GASCHECK Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Posts: 218	Articap: Well, I use Pyrodex and like the extra fire from the Magnum caps. I like the 40 grain charge because I don't need to use those overpriced wads or filler. Crisco on top. Recoil is mild, compared to my .44 Super Blackhawk which is the same frame. I got a brainstorm and figure I can use a drill bit set as nipple gauges. Just try one that fits in a new nipple and compare with what is in the gun. At each session, I take one flask of Pyrodex which gives me 40 or so shots, with no cleaning required of anything, no misfires and I can shoot the gun better than most of my cartridge guns! I use a H&G conical bullet that I cast, range scrap for metal, a little harder than pure lead but no trouble ramming. No bore leading either. Unless you must shoot a traditional. I think you can't beat the Ruger in stainless with adjustable sights for a fun gun! Gascheck

October 19, 2007, 09:45 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Gascheck, Your query got me curious, so I have been looking at a Ruger Old Army and can't see anything that could cause the problem you describe. I even removed the nipples, and nothing interfered with cylinder rotation. Any more info? Jim

October 20, 2007, 12:13 AM	#5
GASCHECK Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Posts: 218	Jim: Well, I think I am going to have one more range session with it before I shut down for the winter. Then, I take the gun completely apart each year and throw it in a container of hot water and clean the innards thoroughly, remove the nipples from the cylinder, and screw them back in with choke thread grease on the threads. I will fool around with it then and see if I can duplicate the problem. I can't see how I could get the cylinder in the frame at all if it wasn't in correctly. I seem to have a strange touch with Old Armys. I got a brand new one, and it just wouldn't fire. The caps just wouldn't go off. Tried new nipples, different caps, always took a second hit to work. I sent it back to Ruger and they sent me a new one without comment, saying only that there was a problem! Gascheck

October 21, 2007, 08:05 AM	#7
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	I have two Ruger Old Army. One is set up with a scope now. Probably one of the only BP revolver scoped! I have cut down the recoil spring it that one since I shoot it mostly with a conversion cylinder now. I found that the Ruger Old Armies actually have a very still main spring and cutting it down a bit makes it just right. Still enough power to set off a cap, but smoother to use.