California Considering Outlawing Lead

ZeroJunk · July 19, 2007, 04:21 PM

California enviornmentalist are wanting to outlaw lead in all hunting ammo including rifles.The Condors are supposedly getting lead poisoning from animal carcasses.Not a huge deal with shotguns,but I don't know what the rifle bullet solution would be.Some say it is just a step to outlaw hunting.

davlandrum · July 19, 2007, 06:40 PM

If they outlaw lead, maybe the next step is gunpowder, because it goes bang...

If lead bullets get outlawed, someone will come up with the solution, just like shotgun shells. And they will cost...

I just thought about it and realized there is no lead left in my gut piles, what are they talking about....

Stuff like this makes my head hurt - so illogical, so extremely BS

Scorch · July 19, 2007, 07:30 PM

Actually, there is already a solution for this problem. Barnes Bullets X-Bullets.

Dirty_Harry · July 19, 2007, 07:56 PM

Another reason I won't step in that Liberal state

jrothWA · July 19, 2007, 10:41 PM

came out with an all copper slug.
Here is Washington, you can't hunt with shotgun, west of Cascades with lead, east no problem.

MDman · July 19, 2007, 10:44 PM

hmm maybe they will let you trade in your lead bullets for some nice steel or tungsten ones.

Jack O'Conner · July 20, 2007, 04:50 AM

California Assembly members from heavily urbanized districts have been against all hunting for several decades. In contrast, nearly all of northern California has no such nonsense.

Kenya stopped hunting in the late 1970's. The result was an immediate reduction of Wardens and the area became a free-for-all snaring and trapping bonanza for locals. Yet some animals destroyed their own habitat due to overpopulation. Game has suffered to this day.

Eventually this will occur in California. The Do-Gooders will stop hunting with their votes and pens, but nothing will stop the locals from hunting. Certainly not Wardens because they'll be un-employed.

During the height of Soviet power: hunting, trapping, and snaring cont'd behind the Iron Curtain. The Commies could not stop it and neither will the California Assembly.

Look for a veto from Arnold S.

Jack

Art Eatman · July 20, 2007, 11:04 AM

It's purely an anti-hunting deal. No way it can be real, since the deer carcass get hauled home to be butchered and the condors/buzzards/coyotes only get the gutpile to play with. It's very, very rare that any lead could be in the gutpile at all.

But it's California...

Art

davlandrum · July 20, 2007, 12:40 PM

Oregon has passed some laws due to the bulk of the population being urban (Portland metro and the Eugene area). That is how running dogs for bear and cougar got outlawed. Not sure how the rest of the state can have a say when the population is so out of balance. Laws were against the advice of state F&W biologists - but what do they know...

Wild Bill Bucks · July 20, 2007, 01:19 PM

Looks like they would figure out, that voteing on things like hunting, should be done by county rather than state wide. We have the same problem here in Oklahoma. 90% of the population is living in 2 or 3 cities, and for the most part don't understand hunting. When elections are held, the rest of us just have to live with whatever the urbanites decide is best.
I live in a 5 county area where 90% of the land is farm land and wilderness and only 80,00 people for population. Most everyone hunts and fishes in these 5 counties, but we are all having to live with laws that the people in OKC and Tulsa vote for( No I'm not knocking my fellow Oklahomans)

Just seems like there should be a better way.

FirstFreedom · July 20, 2007, 04:54 PM

Buy stock in tungsten & bismuth companies, folks!

I'm for protecting the environment as much or more than the next guy, and if lead's a problem, it's a problem which needs to be dealt with. But it seems to me at first glance that the appropriate solution may not be to ban lead, but rather to impose a special tax on any ammo which uses lead (rather than copper, nickel, tungsten, etc., only), then place directly into a rainy day fund, to first STUDY the issue to see if a ban is warranted or not (to eliminate junk science), or if use of the fund to do certain aquatic cleanup projects (and similar) on as as-needed basis is a better solution. If the studies conclude there is no problem, then nix the tax.

38splfan · July 22, 2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Here is Washington, you can't hunt with shotgun, west of Cascades with lead, east no problem.

+1
Wish they would split the stupid state in half and have two, like the Carolinas or Dakotas.

Quote:

During the height of Soviet power: hunting, trapping, and snaring cont'd behind the Iron Curtain. The Commies could not stop it and neither will the California Assembly.

Too bad Cali can't take a hint. If the real commies couldn't do it, the phoney wanna-be's don't stand a chance.

Crosshair · July 22, 2007, 10:41 AM

38splfan

Too bad Cali can't take a hint. If the real commies couldn't do it, the phoney wanna-be's don't stand a chance.

Hmmm, I might have to save that one. What sounds better, Wanna-be Comie or Comie wanna-be?

stinger · July 22, 2007, 12:56 PM

See, this is the problem with giving the government so much power. We think they are going to use it for good (because I'm sure, what, 6 kids got lead poisoning from eating paint chips) and then they turn around and use it against us.

mrawesome22 · July 24, 2007, 07:04 PM

Is there any way to get Kalifornistan booted from the Union? I'd be whole heartidly for it

Barber2678 · July 24, 2007, 09:35 PM

The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through. Lead has to be dissolved in water before it can do any harm and it has to be in huge amounts. People need to get educated before they get excited. Everyone in the state would have to shoot 1000 rounds a day for years before there would ever be any evidence if ground water contamination.

Some Kalifornians need to get with the program.

JWT · July 24, 2007, 11:19 PM

Lead bullets and the condor are just like the spotted owl, pigmy owl, etc. - a way for activists to get what they want under the guise of protecting a vanishing species.

roy reali · July 25, 2007, 04:25 PM

California laws ain't so bad!

teeroux · July 25, 2007, 04:39 PM

they think they rule the union in CA thats why i have to drive an emissions friendly truck.

Paul B. · July 29, 2007, 01:25 PM

"The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through."

I believe this may be in error. With most creatures, I would agree with you, but the Condors, like other bird holds their food in the crop as an aid to digestion. I think that they found the lead in the crops of the dead Condors, just like the lead they found in the crops of, IIRC, six dead loons which brought about the lead shot ban for migratory waterfowl.
Paul B.

KEN K · August 8, 2007, 02:54 PM

You know lead is poisonous to wildlife, I know from first hand experiance, in fact every dear I ever ate had died from lead poisoning. Sounds like the can't get our guns so they're going for the ammo. The X bullet is a good alturnative all copper but I don't know were to get it for reloading.

Omega blood · August 9, 2007, 04:23 PM

I doubt that they will make hunting illegal. There is too much revenue coming in from licences, stamps and tags. And as was mentioned before hunting will still continue by locals and carrying capacities will be exceeded.

Scorch · August 9, 2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Lead has to be dissolved in water before it can do any harm and it has to be in huge amounts. People need to get educated before they get excited

Possibly, but I know of no better way to dissolve it than to grind it up and soak it in acid, like in something's stomach.

We could try an experiment. Have your blood lead level tested. Swallow a 30 cal bullet. Two days later, get your blood lead level tested again.

But you're right, people need to get educated. Facts, not hearsay.

ZeroJunk · August 9, 2007, 06:57 PM

You can do a Google on "California Condor Lead" and there are multiple sources indicating that the condors do have lead poisoning and that it is reasonable to assume some of it is coming from shot and bullets.I don't see that it would be a big inconvenience to use solid copper bullets and lead free shot.Might be better to do that preemptive than have some total anti-hunting crusade activated by it.

Crosshair · August 9, 2007, 09:42 PM

Hmmm, looks like we need to legalize steel core bullets again. "It's for the environment."

July 19, 2007, 04:21 PM	#1
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	California Considering Outlawing Lead California enviornmentalist are wanting to outlaw lead in all hunting ammo including rifles.The Condors are supposedly getting lead poisoning from animal carcasses.Not a huge deal with shotguns,but I don't know what the rifle bullet solution would be.Some say it is just a step to outlaw hunting.

July 19, 2007, 07:30 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Actually, there is already a solution for this problem. Barnes Bullets X-Bullets. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 19, 2007, 07:56 PM	#4
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,484	Another reason I won't step in that Liberal state __________________ "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne

July 19, 2007, 10:41 PM	#5
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	That's why Barnes... came out with an all copper slug. Here is Washington, you can't hunt with shotgun, west of Cascades with lead, east no problem.

July 19, 2007, 10:44 PM	#6
MDman Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2007 Location: maryland Posts: 535	hmm maybe they will let you trade in your lead bullets for some nice steel or tungsten ones. __________________ I dont have super powers, I have guns.

July 19, 2007, 06:40 PM	#2
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	If they outlaw lead, maybe the next step is gunpowder, because it goes bang... If lead bullets get outlawed, someone will come up with the solution, just like shotgun shells. And they will cost... I just thought about it and realized there is no lead left in my gut piles, what are they talking about.... Stuff like this makes my head hurt - so illogical, so extremely BS

July 20, 2007, 04:50 AM	#7
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	California Assembly members from heavily urbanized districts have been against all hunting for several decades. In contrast, nearly all of northern California has no such nonsense. Kenya stopped hunting in the late 1970's. The result was an immediate reduction of Wardens and the area became a free-for-all snaring and trapping bonanza for locals. Yet some animals destroyed their own habitat due to overpopulation. Game has suffered to this day. Eventually this will occur in California. The Do-Gooders will stop hunting with their votes and pens, but nothing will stop the locals from hunting. Certainly not Wardens because they'll be un-employed. During the height of Soviet power: hunting, trapping, and snaring cont'd behind the Iron Curtain. The Commies could not stop it and neither will the California Assembly. Look for a veto from Arnold S. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

July 20, 2007, 11:04 AM	#8
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	It's purely an anti-hunting deal. No way it can be real, since the deer carcass get hauled home to be butchered and the condors/buzzards/coyotes only get the gutpile to play with. It's very, very rare that any lead could be in the gutpile at all. But it's California... Art

July 20, 2007, 12:40 PM	#9
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Oregon has passed some laws due to the bulk of the population being urban (Portland metro and the Eugene area). That is how running dogs for bear and cougar got outlawed. Not sure how the rest of the state can have a say when the population is so out of balance. Laws were against the advice of state F&W biologists - but what do they know...

July 20, 2007, 01:19 PM	#10
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	Looks like they would figure out, that voteing on things like hunting, should be done by county rather than state wide. We have the same problem here in Oklahoma. 90% of the population is living in 2 or 3 cities, and for the most part don't understand hunting. When elections are held, the rest of us just have to live with whatever the urbanites decide is best. I live in a 5 county area where 90% of the land is farm land and wilderness and only 80,00 people for population. Most everyone hunts and fishes in these 5 counties, but we are all having to live with laws that the people in OKC and Tulsa vote for( No I'm not knocking my fellow Oklahomans) Just seems like there should be a better way.

July 20, 2007, 04:54 PM	#11
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Buy stock in tungsten & bismuth companies, folks! I'm for protecting the environment as much or more than the next guy, and if lead's a problem, it's a problem which needs to be dealt with. But it seems to me at first glance that the appropriate solution may not be to ban lead, but rather to impose a special tax on any ammo which uses lead (rather than copper, nickel, tungsten, etc., only), then place directly into a rainy day fund, to first STUDY the issue to see if a ban is warranted or not (to eliminate junk science), or if use of the fund to do certain aquatic cleanup projects (and similar) on as as-needed basis is a better solution. If the studies conclude there is no problem, then nix the tax.

July 22, 2007, 10:41 AM	#13
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	38splfan Too bad Cali can't take a hint. If the real commies couldn't do it, the phoney wanna-be's don't stand a chance. Hmmm, I might have to save that one. What sounds better, Wanna-be Comie or Comie wanna-be? __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

July 22, 2007, 12:56 PM	#14
stinger Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: west texas Posts: 772	See, this is the problem with giving the government so much power. We think they are going to use it for good (because I'm sure, what, 6 kids got lead poisoning from eating paint chips) and then they turn around and use it against us.

July 24, 2007, 07:04 PM	#15
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Is there any way to get Kalifornistan booted from the Union? I'd be whole heartidly for it

July 24, 2007, 09:35 PM	#16
Barber2678 Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2006 Location: Mud Creek, Texas Posts: 269	The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through. Lead has to be dissolved in water before it can do any harm and it has to be in huge amounts. People need to get educated before they get excited. Everyone in the state would have to shoot 1000 rounds a day for years before there would ever be any evidence if ground water contamination. Some Kalifornians need to get with the program. __________________ When in doubt ..... mumble!

July 24, 2007, 11:19 PM	#17
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Lead bullets and the condor are just like the spotted owl, pigmy owl, etc. - a way for activists to get what they want under the guise of protecting a vanishing species.

July 25, 2007, 04:25 PM	#18
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	YUP! California laws ain't so bad!

July 25, 2007, 04:39 PM	#19
teeroux Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Posts: 1,512	yes they are bad they think they rule the union in CA thats why i have to drive an emissions friendly truck.

July 29, 2007, 01:25 PM	#20
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	"The condor excuse is a load of crap. If the birds were to eat 100 lead slugs a day it would not hurt them because it is not in a digestible form, it would just pass through." I believe this may be in error. With most creatures, I would agree with you, but the Condors, like other bird holds their food in the crop as an aid to digestion. I think that they found the lead in the crops of the dead Condors, just like the lead they found in the crops of, IIRC, six dead loons which brought about the lead shot ban for migratory waterfowl. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 8, 2007, 02:54 PM	#21
KEN K Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Location: mid west Georgia Posts: 102	lead is poison You know lead is poisonous to wildlife, I know from first hand experiance, in fact every dear I ever ate had died from lead poisoning. Sounds like the can't get our guns so they're going for the ammo. The X bullet is a good alturnative all copper but I don't know were to get it for reloading.

August 9, 2007, 04:23 PM	#22
Omega blood Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2005 Posts: 161	I doubt that they will make hunting illegal. There is too much revenue coming in from licences, stamps and tags. And as was mentioned before hunting will still continue by locals and carrying capacities will be exceeded.

August 9, 2007, 06:57 PM	#24
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	You can do a Google on "California Condor Lead" and there are multiple sources indicating that the condors do have lead poisoning and that it is reasonable to assume some of it is coming from shot and bullets.I don't see that it would be a big inconvenience to use solid copper bullets and lead free shot.Might be better to do that preemptive than have some total anti-hunting crusade activated by it.

August 9, 2007, 09:42 PM	#25
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Hmmm, looks like we need to legalize steel core bullets again. "It's for the environment." __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.