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November 26, 2008, 01:12 PM | #1 |
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Has anyone here EVER had their C&R FFL audited by ATF?
I know that it is theoretically possible, but has it ever happenned to anyone? I'm curious ho it went. apparently some ATF agents are actually human beings and it is only a small minority that try to set people up and coerce them into being snitches.
I have a friend that sold a handgun he bought with his C&R to an employee and he ended up tading it for drugs to somene that shot someone in a drug deal gone bad. It came back to my buddy eventually and he just showed them his book and it all went away. Do any of y'all have an ATF experience re your C&R you care to share? |
November 28, 2008, 12:39 PM | #2 |
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I know of only one case, and that was similar in that a gun sold by the C&R FFL holder turned up in the wrong place and wrong hands. He got a pretty stiff warning that selling to non-collectors could result in revocation of the license, but that was all. That was in VA. In MD and some other states, had he not followed the law on individual sales, he could have faced a stiff fine or jail time.
AFAIK, BATFE does not conduct any routine or periodic audits of C&R licensees. Jim |
November 28, 2008, 02:41 PM | #3 | |
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November 28, 2008, 07:36 PM | #4 | |
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Selling within the same state should not require the buyer to have a C&R. |
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November 28, 2008, 11:31 PM | #5 |
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Maybe he sold it to a felon. As a C&R you can't do background checks. If you have reason to believe that the buyer is a felon you can't make the sale, but I can see a agent reading a C&R for selling a gun to a guy that had warrants or previous convictions.
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November 29, 2008, 04:59 AM | #6 | |
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November 29, 2008, 10:58 AM | #7 | |
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November 29, 2008, 12:52 PM | #8 |
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The guy was a little vague and ranted about the BATFE, but they seemed to have warned him against making too many sales to individuals. From what he said, I gathered that he bought a lot of C&R handguns and then sold them to about anyone. He claimed that doing so was OK and legal (as some here have said) but there is a point where occasional sales become dealing. I am sure BATFE considered him not only as being a dealer but as selling guns without asking too many questions.
Jim |
November 29, 2008, 02:44 PM | #9 | ||
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November 29, 2008, 06:56 PM | #10 |
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Buying and selling C&R guns for the betterment or improvement of ones collection is considered okay and proper with the BATF. With that said a C&R lic is not issued for someone to use just for buying & selling C&R guns but rather for a collector to use in buying and selling to improve ones collection.
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November 29, 2008, 07:26 PM | #11 |
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Unfortunately, there are always people who make it hard for everyone else. I have a suspicion that the guy in question got his 03 FFL just so he could supply his drug buddies with guns, but of course I can't prove that. In a lot of places, the CLEO signature would be no problem and any way, the CLEO doesn't say the applicant is a nice guy, only that there is no law against him having the license.
For a long time, the anti gun gang has been trying to eliminate the C&R license and I have no doubt they will try again now that a gun-hating president will be in the White House. (Make no mistake, Obama hates guns and gun owners with a passion, no matter how many lies he tells.) Jim |
November 29, 2008, 07:48 PM | #12 |
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When mine was active I would buy 5 at a time and handpick out the best 3 for me and my sons. I'd sell the other 2 to friends for cost plus enough extra to cover the shipping for all 5 . I probably sold about 10 or 12 guns over the 3 years I had it. After my divorce I let it go and sold off a big part of my collection so that now I only have one of each of the many varieties of mausers, mosins, and SKSs I used to have. The ones I kept are the best of the best though so it definitely improved my collection.
In the big sell off I lost some of the names of the buyers and my logbook got all jacked up so I didn't renew my C&R. If you let your C&R go you can destroy your books and start all over with a new license number. That's what I'm in the process of doing now. |
December 2, 2008, 01:13 PM | #13 | |
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December 4, 2008, 07:42 PM | #14 | ||
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Saands edit: I found the reference: it is 27 CFR section 478.129 and it says: Quote:
Last edited by saands; December 4, 2008 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Added citation ... |
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December 4, 2008, 08:13 PM | #15 |
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Had a C&R for 20+ years and never been audited. Have had NFA items for 20+ years and have never been asked to see my paperwork be ATF or any other LEO.
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December 4, 2008, 08:15 PM | #16 | |
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December 4, 2008, 09:48 PM | #17 | |
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December 5, 2008, 07:08 AM | #18 | |
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December 5, 2008, 08:11 AM | #19 |
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I know one person that had some guns stolen and he caught all kinds of grief from the BATF about having to prove that the guns were stolen and not sold. The audited him wiht a fine tooth comb and he finally gave up his license. Other than that haven't heard of any.
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December 5, 2008, 09:53 AM | #20 |
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In the last two weeks four members of www.northeastshooters.com have been called in for an audit
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December 5, 2008, 09:58 AM | #21 | |
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December 5, 2008, 11:15 AM | #22 | ||
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I have a letter from BATF that states that once collectors are no longer licensed, they are not required to maintain any of their records and can destroy them if they wish. |
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December 5, 2008, 11:23 AM | #23 | |
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December 5, 2008, 03:11 PM | #24 |
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December 5, 2008, 03:44 PM | #25 |
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Thanks.
Waiting for the phone call now...... |
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