need a list of expanding 38+ P bullets

KarlSG · July 24, 2019, 06:57 AM

gents just wondering what bullets options are out there that reliably expand at 38+P velocities? So far I am buying some 125grain Golden sabres and 135grain GDHP short barrel. Any other options I should be looking at? I'll also try pushing some bullets to 1050fps in a 357 barrel so anything working at that velocity would be of interest too. Prefer no lighter than 125grains.

**Unclenick** · July 24, 2019, 07:27 AM

I don't know of such a list already prepared anywhere. Vendors have minimum and maximum expansion velocities for their various bullets, so you can inquire by email or sometimes find them on their websites. One of the most popular makes here are the Hornady XTP bullets. They come in 125 and 140-grain versions, which should fit into your range. Sierra also makes JHP's in those weights. I would ask them both about the expansion velocity ranges for their bullets, then add 50 fps to the bottom and subtract 50 fps from the top to be sure of staying inside the range with shot-to-shot variation.

74A95 · July 24, 2019, 08:22 AM

This link has expansion information for factory ammo: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

KarlSG · July 24, 2019, 09:08 AM

Thanks gents. And that link to luckygunner is perfect thanks.Those guys look like they really did their homework.

**Unclenick** · July 24, 2019, 04:39 PM

If you don't have one, you'll probably want a chronograph to be sure of getting inside expansion velocity ranges. If you went with the Hornady XTP, for example, same as with your Speer Gold Dots, you can buy their factory ammo to test in wet newspaper or even in gelatin (if you are willing to go to that trouble), measuring the actual velocity out of your gun at the same time. If you like the way the factory ammo behaved, you can get the same bullet from for handloading and already know what velocity to target. You probably won't have the exact same powder they do, so you may have more or less flash and more or less velocity variation by the time you've found a safe load that matches their average velocity from your gun, but at least you'll know what the terminal performance will be like.

labnoti · July 24, 2019, 05:41 PM

When I loaded for and shot .38 +P, I used Remington Golden Saber for .38 (note their .357 bullet is different). It was very good at expanding even from 1 7/8" snub-nosed barrels. But, penetration is questionable. I don't have a better way to test penetration against an accepted benchmark than the kind of gel test that Lucky Gunner has done. Notice how their result with the 4" barrel showed very good expansion, but consitently marginal penetration. In the 2" barrel, some bullets penetrated better because they did not expand as well.
Was there a bullet and cartridge they tested that both expanded and penetrated well? If .38 +P offers one or the other, but not both, which one is more important?

My solution was to move to .357 Magnum. Because I handload, I did not need to shoot full loads of H110 to get significantly better ballistics than .38 +P. For example, I could easily load .357 cartridges that would deliver 4" .38+P ballistics from a 2" barrel. But I found as I persued better terminal performance, the tiny snubnose was just not worth dealing with.

zxcvbob · July 24, 2019, 07:24 PM

A couple that I use that I assume expand well are Remington 125 grain half-jacketed hollowpoints, and Missouri Bullets 158 grain swaged SWCHP. I haven't actually tested the expansion of either one. But I don't see how they couldn't expand with all that exposed soft lead.

(I don't see 125 grain SJHP in Remington's current catalog, but they list a 110 grain bullet that looks just like it, #23570)

74A95 · July 24, 2019, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

(I don't see 125 grain SJHP in Remington's current catalog, but they list a 110 grain bullet that looks just like it, #23570)

Here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...d-hollow-point

KarlSG · July 24, 2019, 08:54 PM

Thanks all. Yes I have a chrony and will be testing what I load. Labnoti I had similar thoughts using 357. One of the things I am swinging towards was to get 1000fps using light loads of powder, basically creating a '357 light' in effect, with the advantages of less flash and no supersonic crack.Bullets that expand at 38sp velocities would be a good place to start, then see what harder bullets might still open up.

**Unclenick** · July 24, 2019, 09:06 PM

Probably one of the best designs for both penetrating and expanding is the Federal Hydra-Shok. Unfortunately, they don't make the bullets available as a component for handloaders. For more penetration from available components, you probably want to go for more sectional density by moving to 158-grain bullets. They move out more slowly, which cuts down on expansion some, but to get both expansion and deep penetration you are looking at a trade-off of some kind.

74A95 · July 24, 2019, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Probably one of the best designs for both penetrating and expanding is the Federal Hydra-Shok. Unfortunately, they don't make the bullets available as a component for handloaders.

here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...d-hollow-point

zeke · July 25, 2019, 05:05 AM

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-c...-ammo-box.html

158 grainer, but might help to name your barrel length/specific firearm

KarlSG · July 26, 2019, 05:14 AM

4" barrel 357.

Small game hunting with same bullet in a 357 lever action, loaded to just subsonic.

zeke · July 26, 2019, 06:18 PM

The reason i asked was some fixed sight pistols are zeroed into a certain bullet weight. My 38 snub is sighted for 158 grainers, and a 3 in 357 for 125 grainers.

loaded to roughly 1050 fps, am using Rem 38 special 125 gs from 4 in 38 special, or 2 1/2 in 357 mag. Also load the 357 version to mimic Rem factory 357 magnum load.

The golden sabers used to be cheap, not anymore. They are very accurate in all the 38 special/357 mags owned. A lot of internet expansion tests available.

74A95 · July 26, 2019, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...d-hollow-point

I should have added the link below. Federal had announced some time in the past that they were going to make some of their bullets available for handloading. They have many of them on their website, which includes the hydra-shok pistol bullets.

https://www.federalpremium.com/reloading/bullets/

**Unclenick** · July 27, 2019, 10:52 AM

74A95,

Thanks much for the links. I didn't realize they'd changed their minds about that. It used to be everyone complained about having to buy loaded ammo to get FHS bullets.

74A95 · July 27, 2019, 11:38 AM

Unclenick, you're welcome. I'm also glad to see them available for handloading. Now if they would do the same with the HSTs.

**Unclenick** · July 27, 2019, 02:23 PM

They will when they come up with the next superceding innovation.

July 24, 2019, 06:57 AM	#1
KarlSG Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 17	need a list of expanding 38+ P bullets gents just wondering what bullets options are out there that reliably expand at 38+P velocities? So far I am buying some 125grain Golden sabres and 135grain GDHP short barrel. Any other options I should be looking at? I'll also try pushing some bullets to 1050fps in a 357 barrel so anything working at that velocity would be of interest too. Prefer no lighter than 125grains.

July 24, 2019, 04:39 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	If you don't have one, you'll probably want a chronograph to be sure of getting inside expansion velocity ranges. If you went with the Hornady XTP, for example, same as with your Speer Gold Dots, you can buy their factory ammo to test in wet newspaper or even in gelatin (if you are willing to go to that trouble), measuring the actual velocity out of your gun at the same time. If you like the way the factory ammo behaved, you can get the same bullet from for handloading and already know what velocity to target. You probably won't have the exact same powder they do, so you may have more or less flash and more or less velocity variation by the time you've found a safe load that matches their average velocity from your gun, but at least you'll know what the terminal performance will be like. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 24, 2019, 07:24 PM	#7
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	A couple that I use that I assume expand well are Remington 125 grain half-jacketed hollowpoints, and Missouri Bullets 158 grain swaged SWCHP. I haven't actually tested the expansion of either one. But I don't see how they couldn't expand with all that exposed soft lead. (I don't see 125 grain SJHP in Remington's current catalog, but they list a 110 grain bullet that looks just like it, #23570) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

July 24, 2019, 09:06 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Probably one of the best designs for both penetrating and expanding is the Federal Hydra-Shok. Unfortunately, they don't make the bullets available as a component for handloaders. For more penetration from available components, you probably want to go for more sectional density by moving to 158-grain bullets. They move out more slowly, which cuts down on expansion some, but to get both expansion and deep penetration you are looking at a trade-off of some kind. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 27, 2019, 10:52 AM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	74A95, Thanks much for the links. I didn't realize they'd changed their minds about that. It used to be everyone complained about having to buy loaded ammo to get FHS bullets. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 24, 2019, 07:27 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I don't know of such a list already prepared anywhere. Vendors have minimum and maximum expansion velocities for their various bullets, so you can inquire by email or sometimes find them on their websites. One of the most popular makes here are the Hornady XTP bullets. They come in 125 and 140-grain versions, which should fit into your range. Sierra also makes JHP's in those weights. I would ask them both about the expansion velocity ranges for their bullets, then add 50 fps to the bottom and subtract 50 fps from the top to be sure of staying inside the range with shot-to-shot variation. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 24, 2019, 08:22 AM	#3
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,570	This link has expansion information for factory ammo: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

July 24, 2019, 09:08 AM	#4
KarlSG Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 17	Thanks gents. And that link to luckygunner is perfect thanks.Those guys look like they really did their homework.

July 24, 2019, 05:41 PM	#6
labnoti Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2018 Posts: 252	When I loaded for and shot .38 +P, I used Remington Golden Saber for .38 (note their .357 bullet is different). It was very good at expanding even from 1 7/8" snub-nosed barrels. But, penetration is questionable. I don't have a better way to test penetration against an accepted benchmark than the kind of gel test that Lucky Gunner has done. Notice how their result with the 4" barrel showed very good expansion, but consitently marginal penetration. In the 2" barrel, some bullets penetrated better because they did not expand as well. Was there a bullet and cartridge they tested that both expanded and penetrated well? If .38 +P offers one or the other, but not both, which one is more important? My solution was to move to .357 Magnum. Because I handload, I did not need to shoot full loads of H110 to get significantly better ballistics than .38 +P. For example, I could easily load .357 cartridges that would deliver 4" .38+P ballistics from a 2" barrel. But I found as I persued better terminal performance, the tiny snubnose was just not worth dealing with.

July 24, 2019, 08:54 PM	#9
KarlSG Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 17	Thanks all. Yes I have a chrony and will be testing what I load. Labnoti I had similar thoughts using 357. One of the things I am swinging towards was to get 1000fps using light loads of powder, basically creating a '357 light' in effect, with the advantages of less flash and no supersonic crack.Bullets that expand at 38sp velocities would be a good place to start, then see what harder bullets might still open up.

July 25, 2019, 05:05 AM	#12
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-c...-ammo-box.html 158 grainer, but might help to name your barrel length/specific firearm

July 26, 2019, 05:14 AM	#13
KarlSG Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 17	4" barrel 357. Small game hunting with same bullet in a 357 lever action, loaded to just subsonic.

July 26, 2019, 06:18 PM	#14
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	The reason i asked was some fixed sight pistols are zeroed into a certain bullet weight. My 38 snub is sighted for 158 grainers, and a 3 in 357 for 125 grainers. loaded to roughly 1050 fps, am using Rem 38 special 125 gs from 4 in 38 special, or 2 1/2 in 357 mag. Also load the 357 version to mimic Rem factory 357 magnum load. The golden sabers used to be cheap, not anymore. They are very accurate in all the 38 special/357 mags owned. A lot of internet expansion tests available.

July 27, 2019, 11:38 AM	#17
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,570	Unclenick, you're welcome. I'm also glad to see them available for handloading. Now if they would do the same with the HSTs.

July 27, 2019, 02:23 PM	#18
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	They will when they come up with the next superceding innovation. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle