Picked up an odd one!

Jevyod · October 6, 2018, 10:07 AM

Was at my local gunshop last evening and saw an odd caliber that I just had to have. I am a bit funny that way, liking at least a few odd ones. It was a Savage 340 chambered in 225 Winchester. I do reload, and the gun came with a RCBS die set, a full box of winchester 55 grain factory ammo, about 30 reloads (with the load data included) plus 20 other pcs of brass. I am looking forward to shooting this gun! I did hear some people felt that the 225 winchester was at the upper edge of pressure for this gun (single locking lug) but have never heard of on failing. I assumed if I play it safe and not try to make it into a 22-250 I should be safe.

T. O'Heir · October 6, 2018, 11:56 AM

"...20 other pcs of brass..." That'd be good. Midway doesn't list the .225 and Graf's wants $37.59 per 20 for Quality Cartridge brass. Appears to be the only game. No ammo from anybody at either.
"...pressure for this gun..." SAAMI doesn't list .225 pressures at all, but CIP(Europe) does. 50,000 PSI is their Max. Hodgdon max load pressures run a bit, a really small bit, below that. BlC-2 55 grain max load runs at 49,400 CUP. 40 grain H322 Max loads run 49,800 CUP.
There's no converting PSI to CUP though. Stick with what your manual says and you'll be fine anyway.
Oh and Savage 340's are known for being tack drivers in .30-30. In .225, that is supposedly a rare chambering, it should be too.

1MoreFord · October 6, 2018, 02:14 PM

Brownells may have .225 at reasonable prices from time to time.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...rod105544.aspx

Have fun.

**44 AMP** · October 6, 2018, 03:24 PM

That is indeed, an odd one. Never heard of a Savage 340 in .225 Win. .30-30 and .222 Rem were the common calibers. I think there might have been a .223, for a while, but I'm not sure.

The .225 Winchester is one of those rounds that probably never should have been made. It got off to a screeching halt when introduced, and while they did sell a few and some other makers did make a few, it was only a few, and Remington standardizing the wildcat .22-250 a year later, basically ended the little popularity the .225 had.

The .225 is a rimmed case. Often said to have been developed from the .220 Swift (which was a development of the 6mm Lee Navy case), I just checked some drawings, and while the .225 has the same rim size as the .220 Swift (.473" which means it fits standard bolt faces) the case body of the .225 is about .02" smaller in diameter than the Swift, and its also shorter.

The .225 Win will do 55gr slugs in the 3600fps range, but so will the .22-250, and its rimless. The .225 simply wasn't "modern" due to the rimmed case, and faded away. Ammo and brass is where you can find it, for what ever they are asking. Good Luck.

Oh, do take extreme care with that Savage 340 magazine. They are nearly
"unobtainium" in the standard calibers, and I would be amazed if you could ever find one for .225 Win. The magazine might be worth more than the entire rifle!!! There's probably at least a few "single shot" Savage 340s out there, because the mag was lost or damaged.

The .225 has decent performance, you can match most .22-250 loads, but the cases are rare, out of production, and cannot be easily formed from anything else you can easily get..

I just checked some more drawings, you might be able to make a case that would work from .30-30 brass, but you'd have to lathe turn the .30-30 rim from .506" down to .473" and do some other work. And the .30-30 specs 0.415" at the case head, the .225 is 0.422" so cases made from .30-30 would still be slightly undersize at the case head. This would work, once, anyway

but I don't know for how long, or how well with full power loads.

Good Luck with yours!!

bamaranger · October 9, 2018, 12:10 PM

Yes, that is a cartridge one rarely encounters. I knew of just one fella that had a 225Win, and that was back in the early 1980's. He was loading for it then.

Why Winchester released that cartridge, I dunno. The .220 Swift was still somewhat common, rimmed as well, and obtaining higher velocities. Maybe the shoulder angle and shorter case allowed for longer case life and easier reloading. Again, don't know, the 225Win never went anywhere.

**Mike Irwin** · October 10, 2018, 07:10 AM

While I don't know of any factory records, the .225 was the least common of the 340's chamberings. At most, a few thousand were made, but very likely fewer than that.

They don't tend to bring a lot of money when they sell, but there is collector interest in them.

The .225 Winchester was never a very popular cartridge and it was dropped fairly quickly for the .22-250. Savage never brought out the .225 in the Model 99, preferring to make the logical choice and chamber it in .22-250.

Scorch · October 10, 2018, 04:52 PM

The 225 Winchester was introduced in 1964 to replace the 220 Swift (the Swift was almost 30 years old by 1964), it is basically a revamped 220 Swift or 219 Zipper Improved (close to the same case dimensions). Winchester wanted something new to give them a sales surge. The 225 was one of the cartridges that were supposed to do it for them, but it never hit the popularity of the Swift, and it could not compete with the 22-250 Browning had introduced in their rifles (Remington standardized the 22-250 later that same year, but Browning introduced it first). So instead of saving Winchester, the 225 gave them another black eye.

Roamin_Wade · October 10, 2018, 05:07 PM

Pictures?

458winshooter · October 13, 2018, 11:48 PM

I have a gunshop/pawnshop near me who has had one for sale for years now but I have passed on it cause they want about $100 over book for it. I already have a 340 in 30-30. Even though it is an "economy" priced rifle don't underestimate the accuracy of it, my little double thutty is a tack driver.

October 6, 2018, 10:07 AM	#1
Jevyod Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 172	Picked up an odd one! Was at my local gunshop last evening and saw an odd caliber that I just had to have. I am a bit funny that way, liking at least a few odd ones. It was a Savage 340 chambered in 225 Winchester. I do reload, and the gun came with a RCBS die set, a full box of winchester 55 grain factory ammo, about 30 reloads (with the load data included) plus 20 other pcs of brass. I am looking forward to shooting this gun! I did hear some people felt that the 225 winchester was at the upper edge of pressure for this gun (single locking lug) but have never heard of on failing. I assumed if I play it safe and not try to make it into a 22-250 I should be safe.

October 6, 2018, 11:56 AM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...20 other pcs of brass..." That'd be good. Midway doesn't list the .225 and Graf's wants $37.59 per 20 for Quality Cartridge brass. Appears to be the only game. No ammo from anybody at either. "...pressure for this gun..." SAAMI doesn't list .225 pressures at all, but CIP(Europe) does. 50,000 PSI is their Max. Hodgdon max load pressures run a bit, a really small bit, below that. BlC-2 55 grain max load runs at 49,400 CUP. 40 grain H322 Max loads run 49,800 CUP. There's no converting PSI to CUP though. Stick with what your manual says and you'll be fine anyway. Oh and Savage 340's are known for being tack drivers in .30-30. In .225, that is supposedly a rare chambering, it should be too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 6, 2018, 03:24 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,795	That is indeed, an odd one. Never heard of a Savage 340 in .225 Win. .30-30 and .222 Rem were the common calibers. I think there might have been a .223, for a while, but I'm not sure. The .225 Winchester is one of those rounds that probably never should have been made. It got off to a screeching halt when introduced, and while they did sell a few and some other makers did make a few, it was only a few, and Remington standardizing the wildcat .22-250 a year later, basically ended the little popularity the .225 had. The .225 is a rimmed case. Often said to have been developed from the .220 Swift (which was a development of the 6mm Lee Navy case), I just checked some drawings, and while the .225 has the same rim size as the .220 Swift (.473" which means it fits standard bolt faces) the case body of the .225 is about .02" smaller in diameter than the Swift, and its also shorter. The .225 Win will do 55gr slugs in the 3600fps range, but so will the .22-250, and its rimless. The .225 simply wasn't "modern" due to the rimmed case, and faded away. Ammo and brass is where you can find it, for what ever they are asking. Good Luck. Oh, do take extreme care with that Savage 340 magazine. They are nearly "unobtainium" in the standard calibers, and I would be amazed if you could ever find one for .225 Win. The magazine might be worth more than the entire rifle!!! There's probably at least a few "single shot" Savage 340s out there, because the mag was lost or damaged. The .225 has decent performance, you can match most .22-250 loads, but the cases are rare, out of production, and cannot be easily formed from anything else you can easily get.. I just checked some more drawings, you might be able to make a case that would work from .30-30 brass, but you'd have to lathe turn the .30-30 rim from .506" down to .473" and do some other work. And the .30-30 specs 0.415" at the case head, the .225 is 0.422" so cases made from .30-30 would still be slightly undersize at the case head. This would work, once, anyway but I don't know for how long, or how well with full power loads. Good Luck with yours!! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 9, 2018, 12:10 PM	#5
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,295	odd Yes, that is a cartridge one rarely encounters. I knew of just one fella that had a 225Win, and that was back in the early 1980's. He was loading for it then. Why Winchester released that cartridge, I dunno. The .220 Swift was still somewhat common, rimmed as well, and obtaining higher velocities. Maybe the shoulder angle and shorter case allowed for longer case life and easier reloading. Again, don't know, the 225Win never went anywhere.

October 10, 2018, 07:10 AM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	While I don't know of any factory records, the .225 was the least common of the 340's chamberings. At most, a few thousand were made, but very likely fewer than that. They don't tend to bring a lot of money when they sell, but there is collector interest in them. The .225 Winchester was never a very popular cartridge and it was dropped fairly quickly for the .22-250. Savage never brought out the .225 in the Model 99, preferring to make the logical choice and chamber it in .22-250. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 6, 2018, 02:14 PM	#3
1MoreFord Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2014 Location: Arkansas Posts: 244	Brownells may have .225 at reasonable prices from time to time. https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...rod105544.aspx Have fun.

October 10, 2018, 04:52 PM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	The 225 Winchester was introduced in 1964 to replace the 220 Swift (the Swift was almost 30 years old by 1964), it is basically a revamped 220 Swift or 219 Zipper Improved (close to the same case dimensions). Winchester wanted something new to give them a sales surge. The 225 was one of the cartridges that were supposed to do it for them, but it never hit the popularity of the Swift, and it could not compete with the 22-250 Browning had introduced in their rifles (Remington standardized the 22-250 later that same year, but Browning introduced it first). So instead of saving Winchester, the 225 gave them another black eye. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 10, 2018, 05:07 PM	#8
Roamin_Wade Junior member Join Date: July 11, 2018 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 220	Pictures?

October 13, 2018, 11:48 PM	#9
458winshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Transplanted to Ridgeland,SC Posts: 606	340 Savage I have a gunshop/pawnshop near me who has had one for sale for years now but I have passed on it cause they want about $100 over book for it. I already have a 340 in 30-30. Even though it is an "economy" priced rifle don't underestimate the accuracy of it, my little double thutty is a tack driver.

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