Short barreled 308 AR10 hunting ammo

Linegrind · December 11, 2018, 12:58 PM

Hey all,

So I recently bought a Stag10SL with the 16" and a 1-10 twist rate. Now I hunt stands in the woods, and ill go on some spot and stalk hunts in farm country. I'm pretty confident in my abilities to kill a feeding animal out to about 400 yards.

My question is with this short barrel what factory loads would you suggest checking out to get reliable expansion out to 400. I mostly hunt white tails but mule deer are also on the table. Possible elk. Realistically I'd probably just use my 7mm rem mag for the Elk though.

I've been thinking about the TTX in 168. I've had great luck with barnes in my 7mm and I've used the 62 grain 5.56 to harvest 3 does so far. But then I thought maybe with the reduced velocity in the 16" barrel 308 vs a typical 22" maybe a solid copper isn't a great idea if I start taking those 200+ yard shots.

Then I figured the 130 TTSX might be a good idea because it's a faster load and would have more velocity down range to promote expansion.

Also toyed with Hornady SST's. I've also had good luck with them in my 7mm. Very violent and explosive damage. Almost to much, I've definitely blown holes in deer I could stick two fists in no problem. So I'm confident they'd expand. But then I start to worry about long range performance again at 400 yards. I know they'll kill out that far but I wonder about the expansion and penetration.
I find that the SST fragment a lot for me and really dont retain a lot of weight. Could be though that my experience has been with a hot loaded 7mm at mostly under 109 yards when I've used them.

Doing some reading though and I was seeing a fair few people who chose the ELD-X over the SST for those short to medium range shots like I'm talking. Really dont know what I'll prefer, may even try both in the end.

I have no interest in going over 400 yards so I think the setup will be a fun change of pace once I get a reliable and accurate package going.

Any opinions or experience welcome!!

**44 AMP** · December 11, 2018, 01:44 PM

Start off, get a ballistics chart/table that goes to the desired range, and look up the .30 bullet weight you are interested in.

Then find the velocity numbers for that bullet out of a .300 Savage. Because that's about the speed you are starting at with the short barrel .308. (possibly even a bit less)

Find the (approximate) speed at 400yds and call the maker of the bullet you want to use, and ask them about expansion at that velocity.

No one is a better expert on what their bullet will and won't do at a given speed than the people who make them.

T. O'Heir · December 11, 2018, 02:25 PM

"...would have more velocity down range..." Light bullets lose energy faster than heavy. The issue with the 16" barrel is that the velocities are lower to start. Short barrels are not made for long ranges.
A 130 grain TTSX has marginal remaining energy at 400.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/.../Ba...ard-2017-1.pdf
This is some actual barrel length velocity test results.
https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ty-28-to-16-5/

jmr40 · December 11, 2018, 02:50 PM

The copper bullets work well, but need about 2000 fps at impact in order to expand. In MY 308's with a 22" barrels either the 130, 150 or 168 Barnes bullets still have 2000+ fps to 400 yards.

You'll really need to chronograph some loads with YOUR rifle to see. There can be well over 100 fps difference between 2 different barrels of the same length, and it is not uncommon for some individual shorter barrels to shoot faster than another longer barrel.

MY 18" barreled 308 is only about 50 fps slower than MY 22" 308's. But it is impossible to say where YOUR rifle will be. And you have 2" less than I have.

I'd strongly consider the 178 ELD-X. That bullet still expands down to 1800 fps and has enough weight for good penetration I'm getting 2620 with that bullet in my 22" guns and 2570 from my 18" rifle. If you can get 2500 fps you're still at 1800 fps out to 500 yards.

The copper bullets in any weight drop below 2000 fps right at 400 yards with my 22" guns and probably closer to 350 yards from your shorter barrel.

I think they either option would work. I like the copper bullets better at closer ranges and would go with 150's. The heavier bullets aren't needed in copper.

Linegrind · December 11, 2018, 04:16 PM

Appreciate the replies, I'll probably get a box of the ELD-Xs as a starting point. Cant afford to buy to much variety.

I'll have to see if my dad still has some brass and dies around from the 308 loads he worked up for my sister and do some experimenting. I know the old fart sold off a lot of his stuff though.

Learned something new though, didnt realize the lighter projectiles lost velocity faster. Is it generally significant out to 400 yards?

I really like the idea of the 178 ELD-X. I've always favored the big heavy bullets. If it feeds well out of my gun and prints decent on paper that's be the ticket.

Have any of you used the ELD-X and recovered and bullets from any longer shots?

Mobuck · December 11, 2018, 07:11 PM

I have a 20" bolt action .308 carbine and just a couple weeks back, I ran some real life velocity tests. Pretty dismal would be an accurate description. 150 grain FL in the mid 2500's. 165-168 FL in the low-mid 2400's.
As far as I'm concerned, a short(16-20") .308 is a poor performer beyond 200-250 at best. I've never hunted with a 30/30 and I'm sure as he!! not going to shoot a .308 with 30/30 performance at long range.

TrueBlue711 · December 12, 2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:

I'd strongly consider the 178 ELD-X

I second this. I have a SCAR 17 (also a 16in barrel) and use the Hornady 178 gr Precision Hunter line of ammo. Works great.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 12, 2018, 09:26 AM

If you are reloading, you could also load some .300 Barnes TAC-TX bullets in .308 (110gr and 130gr). They are designed to expand at the slower velocities of the .300 Blackout and would definitely stretch the legs on a 16” .308; but they may come apart on you at closer ranges.

bacardisteve · December 12, 2018, 07:51 PM

165 or 180gr nosler ballistic tips work great at lower velocity. I run the 180gr at 2500fps and terminal peromance has been excellent on whitetails out to 350yds havent had a chance further out yet.

Linegrind · December 12, 2018, 10:22 PM

Realistically most of my shots will be within 100 yards. But I'm spoiled by my 7mm with a 200yd zero.

I like the flexibility to be able to take those longer shots but if it doesnt work out it is what it is. I'm probably going to start with a box of 178gr Eld-x's. If I get some good accuracy out of them I'll experiment more.

I might buy a box of factory ammo just to start out. I dont have the equipment to reload but my dad does so I'll probably see what he has laying around too. I just wont be able to reload whenever I want to so might be a long process. Really should buy my own reloading kit. Really isn't that terribly expensive.

Another question I have is what powders would be worth considering? My dad has some 4064 he said I can use. Whether its optimal 8 have no idea though.

bacardisteve · December 13, 2018, 06:09 AM

4064 is a good powder in the 308. So is varget and reloader 15. Ive gone too strictly varget its a little more temp stable than the others mentioned.

dvdcrr · December 25, 2018, 01:41 PM

How do you like that Stag 10 SL?

ed308 · December 25, 2018, 01:57 PM

When I hunted with my .308 AR, I used Federal Fusion and Accubond bullets. Less meat damaged compared to the SST. I also like Barnes TSX and TTSX but always had trouble getting good accuracy from those bullets since all cooper. Plus I would shoot other bullets out of the barrel. 1 MOA was best I could do with those bullets. But fine for hunting within 200 yards.

December 11, 2018, 12:58 PM	#1
Linegrind Member Join Date: February 2, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 61	Short barreled 308 AR10 hunting ammo Hey all, So I recently bought a Stag10SL with the 16" and a 1-10 twist rate. Now I hunt stands in the woods, and ill go on some spot and stalk hunts in farm country. I'm pretty confident in my abilities to kill a feeding animal out to about 400 yards. My question is with this short barrel what factory loads would you suggest checking out to get reliable expansion out to 400. I mostly hunt white tails but mule deer are also on the table. Possible elk. Realistically I'd probably just use my 7mm rem mag for the Elk though. I've been thinking about the TTX in 168. I've had great luck with barnes in my 7mm and I've used the 62 grain 5.56 to harvest 3 does so far. But then I thought maybe with the reduced velocity in the 16" barrel 308 vs a typical 22" maybe a solid copper isn't a great idea if I start taking those 200+ yard shots. Then I figured the 130 TTSX might be a good idea because it's a faster load and would have more velocity down range to promote expansion. Also toyed with Hornady SST's. I've also had good luck with them in my 7mm. Very violent and explosive damage. Almost to much, I've definitely blown holes in deer I could stick two fists in no problem. So I'm confident they'd expand. But then I start to worry about long range performance again at 400 yards. I know they'll kill out that far but I wonder about the expansion and penetration. I find that the SST fragment a lot for me and really dont retain a lot of weight. Could be though that my experience has been with a hot loaded 7mm at mostly under 109 yards when I've used them. Doing some reading though and I was seeing a fair few people who chose the ELD-X over the SST for those short to medium range shots like I'm talking. Really dont know what I'll prefer, may even try both in the end. I have no interest in going over 400 yards so I think the setup will be a fun change of pace once I get a reliable and accurate package going. Any opinions or experience welcome!!

December 11, 2018, 01:44 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Start off, get a ballistics chart/table that goes to the desired range, and look up the .30 bullet weight you are interested in. Then find the velocity numbers for that bullet out of a .300 Savage. Because that's about the speed you are starting at with the short barrel .308. (possibly even a bit less) Find the (approximate) speed at 400yds and call the maker of the bullet you want to use, and ask them about expansion at that velocity. No one is a better expert on what their bullet will and won't do at a given speed than the people who make them. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 11, 2018, 02:25 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...would have more velocity down range..." Light bullets lose energy faster than heavy. The issue with the 16" barrel is that the velocities are lower to start. Short barrels are not made for long ranges. A 130 grain TTSX has marginal remaining energy at 400. https://www.barnesbullets.com/.../Ba...ard-2017-1.pdf This is some actual barrel length velocity test results. https://rifleshooter.com/2014/12/308...ty-28-to-16-5/ __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 11, 2018, 02:50 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	The copper bullets work well, but need about 2000 fps at impact in order to expand. In MY 308's with a 22" barrels either the 130, 150 or 168 Barnes bullets still have 2000+ fps to 400 yards. You'll really need to chronograph some loads with YOUR rifle to see. There can be well over 100 fps difference between 2 different barrels of the same length, and it is not uncommon for some individual shorter barrels to shoot faster than another longer barrel. MY 18" barreled 308 is only about 50 fps slower than MY 22" 308's. But it is impossible to say where YOUR rifle will be. And you have 2" less than I have. I'd strongly consider the 178 ELD-X. That bullet still expands down to 1800 fps and has enough weight for good penetration I'm getting 2620 with that bullet in my 22" guns and 2570 from my 18" rifle. If you can get 2500 fps you're still at 1800 fps out to 500 yards. The copper bullets in any weight drop below 2000 fps right at 400 yards with my 22" guns and probably closer to 350 yards from your shorter barrel. I think they either option would work. I like the copper bullets better at closer ranges and would go with 150's. The heavier bullets aren't needed in copper. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

December 12, 2018, 07:51 PM	#9
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	165 or 180gr nosler ballistic tips work great at lower velocity. I run the 180gr at 2500fps and terminal peromance has been excellent on whitetails out to 350yds havent had a chance further out yet. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

December 11, 2018, 04:16 PM	#5
Linegrind Member Join Date: February 2, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 61	Appreciate the replies, I'll probably get a box of the ELD-Xs as a starting point. Cant afford to buy to much variety. I'll have to see if my dad still has some brass and dies around from the 308 loads he worked up for my sister and do some experimenting. I know the old fart sold off a lot of his stuff though. Learned something new though, didnt realize the lighter projectiles lost velocity faster. Is it generally significant out to 400 yards? I really like the idea of the 178 ELD-X. I've always favored the big heavy bullets. If it feeds well out of my gun and prints decent on paper that's be the ticket. Have any of you used the ELD-X and recovered and bullets from any longer shots?

December 11, 2018, 07:11 PM	#6
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I have a 20" bolt action .308 carbine and just a couple weeks back, I ran some real life velocity tests. Pretty dismal would be an accurate description. 150 grain FL in the mid 2500's. 165-168 FL in the low-mid 2400's. As far as I'm concerned, a short(16-20") .308 is a poor performer beyond 200-250 at best. I've never hunted with a 30/30 and I'm sure as he!! not going to shoot a .308 with 30/30 performance at long range.

December 12, 2018, 09:26 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	If you are reloading, you could also load some .300 Barnes TAC-TX bullets in .308 (110gr and 130gr). They are designed to expand at the slower velocities of the .300 Blackout and would definitely stretch the legs on a 16” .308; but they may come apart on you at closer ranges.

December 12, 2018, 10:22 PM	#10
Linegrind Member Join Date: February 2, 2016 Location: Minnesota Posts: 61	Realistically most of my shots will be within 100 yards. But I'm spoiled by my 7mm with a 200yd zero. I like the flexibility to be able to take those longer shots but if it doesnt work out it is what it is. I'm probably going to start with a box of 178gr Eld-x's. If I get some good accuracy out of them I'll experiment more. I might buy a box of factory ammo just to start out. I dont have the equipment to reload but my dad does so I'll probably see what he has laying around too. I just wont be able to reload whenever I want to so might be a long process. Really should buy my own reloading kit. Really isn't that terribly expensive. Another question I have is what powders would be worth considering? My dad has some 4064 he said I can use. Whether its optimal 8 have no idea though.

December 13, 2018, 06:09 AM	#11
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	4064 is a good powder in the 308. So is varget and reloader 15. Ive gone too strictly varget its a little more temp stable than the others mentioned. __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

December 25, 2018, 01:41 PM	#12
dvdcrr Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2010 Posts: 665	How do you like that Stag 10 SL? __________________ "All warfare is based on deception. Hence when we are able to attack we must seem unable....when using our forces we must appear inactive. When we are near we must make the enemy believe we are far away."Sun Tzu The Art of War.

December 25, 2018, 01:57 PM	#13
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	When I hunted with my .308 AR, I used Federal Fusion and Accubond bullets. Less meat damaged compared to the SST. I also like Barnes TSX and TTSX but always had trouble getting good accuracy from those bullets since all cooper. Plus I would shoot other bullets out of the barrel. 1 MOA was best I could do with those bullets. But fine for hunting within 200 yards. Last edited by ed308; December 25, 2018 at 02:54 PM.