M1 garand handloads

[Cam556]

Just picked up my first M1 the other day with the intent to load a bunch of plinking ammo and maybe a few hunting loads here and there. I had heard that the garand was not designed for commercial ammo, but when I got into it i didn't realize just how picky they could be. Everyone seems to recommend IMR4895 or 4064 but those are impossible to find at the moment. I found some data in one of my fathers old Hornady manuals that lists data for H335 which I have a few lbs of. Has anyone here used H335 or other powders with success?

[Rimfire5]

Unless you have a Navy version (.308), your M1 is probably a .30-06.
I have two M1s in .30-06.

There is commercial ammo designed for the M1 and is specially marked. It isn't easy to find.
CMP used to sell ammo specially designed for the M1. I think it was Korean.
Don't know if they still do.
For my 0.30-06s, I load with slower powders like H4350 or IMR4350 or N150.
And I load 150 gr bullets with lighter loads to protect the OP rod on my M1s.
Or you can get an adjustable gas valve to protect the OP rod. They are reasonably priced, far cheaper than replacing a bent Op rod.

For my .308s, I use H4895, IMR4895, N140, N540 or Varget.

[BobCat45]

Here are a few links to potentially useful data. Included are some with general information about the M1 Garand and the quirks and limits of its gas system.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000620...erpo/home.html

That has a link to: https://web.archive.org/web/20000620...rpo/M1load.htm which is from the NRA, in the old days.

This contains the same data: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/th...g-data.340481/

This is one I found on the web long ago and can't vouch for: https://www.handloadermagazine.com/m1-garand-handloads

This shows some pressure curves and will try to sell you an adjustable gas plug, not a bad idea but I do not have one https://www.garandgear.com/the-m1-ga...al-ammunition/

This shows some powders they think are OK, but to get the actual powder weights you have to subscribe - I haven't https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/30-06-M1-Garand-Pet-Loads-Handloader-issue-333/8659

This is about loading without pinching your thumb, which you already know, but has some amusing links https://m1-garand-rifle.com/loading/

CMP used to sell surplus HXP from Greece, which was real good but all gone.

There is Korean surplus out there but some lots were questionable, according to internet lore.

There is Danish surplus that is very good, but Berdan primed no not easily reloadable.

Read a lot, go slow, have fun! You are about to start a marvelous adventure.

BTW someone who knows something about this topic will be along shortly with useful info.

[mehavey]

As above...
See MASTER PO's temple for Garand data across any number of medium-burm powders.

Alternate MP sources:
https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/m...d-data.234195/
https://bearblain.com/Service%20Rifle%20Loadings.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000620...rpo/M1load.htm

[bamaranger]

The M-1 likely taught me more about reloading than any other single firearm I owned. I do not claim to be a guru, but here are some things you will need to consider beyond powder types . SLAMFIRES are an issue with a Garand and can be compounded by ammo issues.

-Load Garand ammo with hard skinned primers intended for use in military semiauto rifles.

-In addition to correct primers, primer pocket depth and headspace/case sizing are important.

-Obtain a primer pocket uniformer tool (not just a pocket scraper, got mine from Sinclair). -

-Obtain an RCBS precision mic and obtain headspace readings for your rifle and size your cases accordingly.


There has been recent discussion about the Garand and bullet weights. The accepted line of thought is the rifle will perform as intended with 150-168 grain projectiles. Heavier and lighter bullets are debated, but I stay with the norm.

Best of luck. Read plenty and digest it and you will be better off for the effort. The Garand is a hoot. PING!!!!!!!

[mehavey]

MilSpec primers and unformed primer pockets as above,

(- But-)

Strongly urge Garand handloaders full-length resize all rounds.
Toss after a half-dozen reloads.
Don't try to finesse it.

[Cam556]

Thanks for the info guys. I loaded up a couple different batches this morning after I made the post using the hornady data for h335. Just a couple light loads to see what things looked like. Should have been a 150 FMJ at around 2600 fps but the rifle functioned fine so after I put it on paper I may not even try to make them any hotter as long as I get decent accuracy. I am curious about the Master Po data because it seems to exceed a lot of published data.

[Nathan]

H4895 is also an excellent option for the garand.

[mehavey]

Standard Garand.M1/147-150gr ball speed is 2,750–2,800fps.
From MP's reference:

These loads only duplicate military spec. velocities for the
given bullet weight, using commercial cases and powders

[Jeremy2171]

The long standing myth that commercial ammo is dangerous to the garand is just that..it's a myth.

Commercial ammo and milsurp ammo operate at the same pressures.

The garand can handle a wide variety of bullet weight from 110-220gr with no issues.

The gas system is also very "lossy" and can tolerate quite a variety of powders as well.

Grease the rifle correctly and ensure your oprod spring is at least 19.5" long and you won't have any worries.

Zero reason to buy aftermarket gizmos to use your rifle.

[Nathan]

The long standing myth that commercial ammo is dangerous to the garand is just that..it's a myth.

Commercial ammo and milsurp ammo operate at the same pressures.

The garand can handle a wide variety of bullet weight from 110-220gr with no issues.

The gas system is also very "lossy" and can tolerate quite a variety of powders as well.

Grease the rifle correctly and ensure your oprod spring is at least 19.5" long and you won't have any worries…..

Are you sure about that? I don’t see you talking at all about port pressure. With a variety of bullets and powders, you can achieve safe operating pressures for the chamber sure. The bolt is solid. The issue is at the port. If you look at all of the M1 Garand loads, they all use faster powders and lighter bullets to achieve a lower port pressure. The gas port pushes on the op rod. That is what gets bent. There are a number of “solutions” out there, but the ideal solution is to shoot garand loads, imo.

Your last line is probably good for all if us to hear.

[Jeremy2171]

Yep very sure about that. I was talking specifically about port pressures.

There is no such thing a as "garand load".

The gas port doesn't push on anything...its a hole in the barrel where gas passes through. That gas expands in the cylinder forcing the oprod to the rear. It is impossible for that gas expanding in the cylinder to "bend" the oprod. All it can do is move the piston down the cylinder.

[44 AMP]

The long standing myth that commercial ammo is dangerous to the garand is just that..it's a myth.

Actually, its not. Overblown? perhaps, but Garands have been damaged shooting some commerical ammo. That is a fact.

Commercial ammo and milsurp ammo operate at the same pressures.

Not all commercial ammo does.

The garand can handle a wide variety of bullet weight from 110-220gr with no issues.

The Garand is not an omnivore. It was built to run on a fairly narrow range of loads, not the entire range of .30 cal bullet weights or all powders. There are loads that work well in bolt actions that can, and have damaged Garands.

There is no such thing a as "garand load".

The NRA and many modern handloading manuals say there are.

The gas port doesn't push on anything...its a hole in the barrel where gas passes through. That gas expands in the cylinder forcing the oprod to the rear.

Correct.

It is impossible for that gas expanding in the cylinder to "bend" the oprod. All it can do is move the piston down the cylinder.

Incorrect.

It is entirely possible for gas expanding in the cylinder to damage the op rod. What you are missing here is the rate of gas expansion in the cylinder matters. Yes, all the gas does is "push" the piston, but the rate of that push determines the force of the push and pushing too hard can cause damage, commonly bending the op rod, not to a point where the gun doesn't function, but to the point where it wrecks the gun's accuracy. With the Garand, port pressure matters, and a load within overall peak pressure specs can have too high a port pressure, working the action with too much force and with damage resulting.

It is a real thing.

[Jeremy2171]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Actually, its not. Overblown? perhaps, but Garands have been damaged shooting some commerical ammo. That is a fact.



Not all commercial ammo does.



The Garand is not an omnivore. It was built to run on a fairly narrow range of loads, not the entire range of .30 cal bullet weights or all powders. There are loads that work well in bolt actions that can, and have damaged Garands.



The NRA and many modern handloading manuals say there are.



Correct.



Incorrect.

It is entirely possible for gas expanding in the cylinder to damage the op rod. What you are missing here is the rate of gas expansion in the cylinder matters. Yes, all the gas does is "push" the piston, but the rate of that push determines the force of the push and pushing too hard can cause damage, commonly bending the op rod, not to a point where the gun doesn't function, but to the point where it wrecks the gun's accuracy. With the Garand, port pressure matters, and a load within overall peak pressure specs can have too high a port pressure, working the action with too much force and with damage resulting.

It is a real thing.

Lets cut to the chase...

what is the max allowable port pressure in the garand.

and list the SAAMI spec commercial ammo that is dangerous for the garand.

[105kw]

It's not the pressure, it's the pressure curve that causes the problem. As I was told by an old military match shooter and reloadeder
You can damage a M1 with the wrong ammo, I've done it, and had a co-worker do it.
I bought an accurized M1 in 1984 from a LGS. It came with a shooting box and a lot of both milsurp .30M2, and target reloads.
I figured if the previous owner had them with his Garand all was fine.
After about 120rds of 190gr Sierra Match Kings, accuracy went to heck.
So back to my favorite gunshop, the owner, a military armorer, quickly diagnosed a sprung op rod.
The loads were for a bolt action target rifle and were close to book max.
I got a lecture on proper care and feeding of an M1, and a copy of the NRA handbook for Garand reloading.
So, a Garand can be hurt with improper ammo. And op rods aren't cheap.

[Nathan]

and list the SAAMI spec commercial ammo that is dangerous for the garand.

Can you publish the powders used in all commercial ammo and the SAAMI spec for port pressure at m1 garand length? It would be helpful.

Would you consider the M1 Garand SAAMI regulated or Military spec regulated?

[Jeremy2171]

Originally Posted by 105kw

It's not the pressure, it's the pressure curve that causes the problem. As I was told by an old military match shooter and reloadeder
You can damage a M1 with the wrong ammo, I've done it, and had a co-worker do it.
I bought an accurized M1 in 1984 from a LGS. It came with a shooting box and a lot of both milsurp .30M2, and target reloads.
I figured if the previous owner had them with his Garand all was fine.
After about 120rds of 190gr Sierra Match Kings, accuracy went to heck.
So back to my favorite gunshop, the owner, a military armorer, quickly diagnosed a sprung op rod.
The loads were for a bolt action target rifle and were close to book max.
I got a lecture on proper care and feeding of an M1, and a copy of the NRA handbook for Garand reloading.
So, a Garand can be hurt with improper ammo. And op rods aren't cheap.

Lack of lubrication and worn oprod springs cause more damage than the ammo.

[Jeremy2171]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Can you publish the powders used in all commercial ammo and the SAAMI spec for port pressure at m1 garand length? It would be helpful.

Would you consider the M1 Garand SAAMI regulated or Military spec regulated?

There is no SAAMI spec for gas port pressure.

Is there a difference in the SAAMI spec and military specs?

[tangolima]

Bent op rod affects accuracy? I thought it impedes cycling.

I believe this sort of bickering has happened on this forum numerous times in the past. Do a search you will see plenty. More or less the same arguments.

M1 people love lubes, similar to the AR wet runners. In my early ownership of the rifle, I was offered lubes on many occasions. Nice of them, but it didn't really fix anything.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Nathan]

Is there a difference in the SAAMI spec and military specs?

Yes. The military specifies the gu and ammo exactly. They are tuned to work together.

SAAMI sets a spec that allows gun and ammo makers autonomy while ensuring safety of pressure and dimension. It does not attempt to control cycling.

[Jeremy2171]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Yes. The military specifies the gu and ammo exactly. They are tuned to work together.

SAAMI sets a spec that allows gun and ammo makers autonomy while ensuring safety of pressure and dimension. It does not attempt to control cycling.

Please cite the military specs that "control cycling".

[bamaranger]

I figured we get down that ammo path pretty quickly and I'm staying clear. But....

While we're at it, ..........avoid the temptation to single load the M1 with a loose round placed in the chamber and then tripping the bolt to slam home. Always load the M1 from an enbloc if possible, OR ease the bolt forward on a single round and then insure lock up by seating the bolt with your palm. Letting the bolt slam on a live round already in the chamber, without the resistance provided by stripping from the enbloc, is just asking for a slamfire.

[44 AMP]

Is there a difference in the SAAMI spec and military specs?

The pressure given for M2 ball is 50,000 psi max. avg.

Current SAAMI pressure for the .30-06 Springfield is "up to 60,000 psi."

So, it is possible to have ammo within current SAAMI spec that is as much as 20% above the GI M2 ammo pressure.

The simple fact is that the M1 Garand was designed to run on standard GI .30-06 ammo, and it does so very well. Using anything else can result in problems up to including damage to the mechanism.

When you run any mechanical mechanism at, or beyond its designed limits, it fails, usually sooner than later, firearms included.
why do it?

[Jeremy2171]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

The pressure given for M2 ball is 50,000 psi max. avg.

Current SAAMI pressure for the .30-06 Springfield is "up to 60,000 psi."

So, it is possible to have ammo within current SAAMI spec that is as much as 20% above the GI M2 ammo pressure.

The simple fact is that the M1 Garand was designed to run on standard GI .30-06 ammo, and it does so very well. Using anything else can result in problems up to including damage to the mechanism.

When you run any mechanical mechanism at, or beyond its designed limits, it fails, usually sooner than later, firearms included.
why do it?

You have made the same mistake as all the other bloggers and YouTubers...

It's 50000 CUP not psi.

two different methods for measuring pressure....

Max SAAMI pressure is 50k cup or 60k psi. Depending on the method used.

[44 AMP]

Bent op rod affects accuracy? I thought it impedes cycling.

Not initially. When the op rod gets sprung (bent) the first sign is a significant degradation in accuracy. IF you keep on battering the action with unsuitable loads, the out of spec bend will eventually affect function, commonly in the feeding cycle.

You have made the same mistake as all the other bloggers and YouTubers...

No, I have not.

It's 50000 CUP not psi.

Not to the military...
The information I gave regarding the M2 round is exactly a I found it published in 1972. PSI Max. Avg. The military standard has always been psi, and they don't list anything in CUP.

SAAMI specs are actually irrelevant, other than to illustrate that they are different than the military specs.