338 lapua, 308 winchester, 6.8?

[Matthew Ojela]

I'm not an expert by any means, and I understand there's a significant difference between the aforementioned rounds. However, I want to start hunting and am looking for something that will be effective at long range without costing a lot to stock up on.

[deadcoyote]

How long of range? I use 308 out to 375 or so. Many skilled people can shoot much further with the same cartridge but that’s about my comfort zone for a good fatal hit. 6.8 western I assume? Ammo is spendy. 338 LM ammo is reallllly spendy.

Basic questions still what do you want to hunt and how far?

[stagpanther]

I reload for 338 LM; so that brings the price down a lot--but you're still going to use lots of powder. Taking in the whole package of accuracy, range, ballistics and components--the 338 LM is one of the very best big magnum cartridges there is IMO.

[Shadow9mm]

Welcome to The Firing Line!

What do you consider to be long range?

What do you mean by effective? Shooting paper? 2 legged threats? Varmints? Deer? Elk?

For me long range means 1000yds. And effective means still supersonic with preferably a 100g+ projectile.

[jmr40]

308 and 6.5 Creedmoor will be the cheapest to buy ammo for. Either will cleanly take deer or elk size game out to 400 yards which is as far as most people need to be shooting at game. As far as effectiveness is concerned the 7-08 is right with them but ammo is hard to find and more expensive. It's a handloaders round.

The 308 is effective as a target round out to at least 800 yards. With custom rifles with longer than standard barrels and hot handloads you can stretch that to 1000.

The 6.5 CM is in the game as a target round well past 1000 yards. Up to a mile with the right rifle and loads. It was designed specifically for long range target shooting and hunters adopted it. It comes close to matching 270 performance as a hunting cartridge.

The 338 Lapua is for EXTREME long range work. I know some elk hunters who use it for 700-1000 yard shots at game and some militaries have adopted it as a long range sniper rifle. Shots of a mile or more have been made. But very few shooters are good enough to take advantage of it.

The US military passed on 338 Lapiua and chose 300 WM for their long range sniper rifle. It won't match the 338, but comes close enough and is a lot cheaper and easier to find.

I don't know much about the new 6.8 offerings other than to say they are good. But expensive and hard to find ammo for.

If you're inexperienced enough that you have to ask the question I'd go recommend 6.5CM. Once you're experienced enough to start shooting at ranges too far for it you won't have to ask, you'll know what you want.

[ligonierbill]

I have to ask the OP: Are you just new to hunting, or are you new to shooting as well? Guessing the latter, in which case common wisdom (and good advice) is to get you a 22 LR to learn to basics of riflery. Then find a rifle you like. There is a good selection out there from the major makers, at a range of prices. You'll find the popular rifles offered in popular calibers. Weed out the "varmint" rounds and the boomers, and you'll be left with a "can't go wrong" list. I'm sure 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor will be on it, along with 243, 7mm-08, and a bunch more. If you're planning to hunt deer, it doesn't really matter.

[deadcoyote]

I will add on we’re still putting the cart before the horse here until we know intended game and range. I personally like to stick with more affordable and common calibers. I went with .243 over 6.5 creedmore for my son as the ammo is cheaper and more widely available where I live. I’m actually looking at getting a new deer/pig gun currently and will be buying a .270 over some of the more modern rounds for the same reason.

[Nathan]

Welcome. What animal? How good of a shot are you?How far will you shoot?

For me, those answers are mule deer, 1/2 mos if the gun will, under 500 yards. I find a 24” 6.5 Creedmoor a good choice.

6mm Creedmoor, 25 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 270 Winchester, 280 AI are all nice shooting deer rounds.

6.8 Western is a fine round. What you gain in performance is lost in capacity. Capacity is not a deal breaker, just a data point.

338 Lapua is a good round, but has very limited hunting application….like shots from a benchrest or bipod over 1000 yards.

308 is an old war horse. It is fine to a moderate range with middleweight bullets. It is a fine deer round. It has a bit more recoil with not much benefit. It also lacks the reach of a sleeker bullet.


All that said, people select cartridges for lots of reasons. Once you get in the ball park, there is lots of dickering around. You will like one that others don’t like. They may argue with you or even call you names.

Frankly, your reasoning will be yours.

[44 AMP]

It also lacks the reach of a sleeker bullet.

No, it does not. This is simply a perception issue.

People shot 1,000 yard matches with the .45-70 in the late18 and early 1900s. with iron sights!!

All bullets have the same "reach", and that is what you can see. The rest of it is the shooter's skill and ability. "sleeker" bullets and higher speeds don't make it possible, they just make it easier.

[Nathan]

No, it does not. This is simply a perception issue.

He mentioned hunting, right? So he needs the bullet to expand. A quick calculator check showsAssuming 1800fps min expansion)

Hornady Precision Hunter 6.5 143gr: 680 yds

Hornady Precision Hunter 308 178gr: 585 yds

Look at others, but similar.

[Pumpkin]

I might be old or just lacking but either of those distances seems long to me.
For game hunting.

[1972RedNeck]

He mentioned hunting, right? So he needs the bullet to expand.

I have taken a lot of game with hard cast bullets. No expansion. Not sleek. Terrible ballistic coefficient. And yet, incredibly accurate once I figure out how to do my part.

Use the right bullet put in the right place and it doesn't need to expand for hunting.

Heck, the original 30-30 loading from Winchester was a 160 grain full metal jacket around 2k FPS. Not much expansion but has possibly taken more game in the US than any other cartridge.

[Nathan]

I might be old or just lacking but either of those distances seems long to me.
For game hunting.

They are a measure of how far the bullet will expand, not how far an individual hunter should shoot.

You are making my point. Things more powerful, more recoil the 6.5 Creedmoor are likely great rounds, but to what end, if 680yds is too far to shoot.

I have taken a lot of game with hard cast bullets. No expansion. Not sleek. Terrible ballistic coefficient. And yet, incredibly accurate once I figure out how to do my part.

Use the right bullet put in the right place and it doesn't need to expand for hunting.

Heck, the original 30-30 loading from Winchester was a 160 grain full metal jacket around 2k FPS. Not much expansion but has possibly taken more game in the US than any other cartridge.

All great points. I shot a whitetail buck with a 44 mag last year. Bang. 5 yards. Flop. I placed a SWC in a spot that would hit vitals at 50 yds. I’m not recommending 44 mag. It has a pretty limited application like 75-100yds max in the vitals……and the recoil is pretty severe for most people. Can we agree that 40 cal and over are basically pre-expanded.

The 30-30 is fine too, but severely range limited in most of the guns and ammo made for it. Still quite functional to 150yds…..further in a single shot.

Why choose expanding over non-expanding?? Range and recoil…..but 45-70 hits targets to 1000. Big targets it does not have to kill from match rifles. It does this at punishing recoil levels in hunting guns.

Why do we care about recoil? I’m tough. Recoil is not usually about toughness as it is seeing your animal after the shot, practicing enough to get good and being able to get accuracy from hunting weight guns.

Maybe we can discuss umph or whallop next!

[GeauxTide]

1. Don't get a cartridge that has a lot of recoil. The recoil velocity of the larger cartridges is the culprit. Choose a cartridge that is available everywhere.
2. Don't get a cartridge that you can't hold into 8" at 100 yards, offhand.
3. Practice, practice, practice.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

Use the right bullet put in the right place and it doesn't need to expand for hunting.

Expanding bullets are a requirement in most states to hunt deer sized game and larger due to regulations. Your hard cast bullet is still considered an expanding bullet. However, FMJ and TMJ bullets are usually not legal for hunting.

The OP is worried about cost, so his only option from choices listed is the .308 Win. .338 Lapua and 6.8 anything will be more expensive to shoot than .308 Win even reloading. If you want economical cartridges for hunting .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor will be top options.

[Shadow9mm]

OP hasn't been back since posting this thread....

[1972RedNeck]

Can we agree that 40 cal and over are basically pre-expanded.

Pre-expanded. I like that. Will have to add that to my "45 is better than 9" argument toolbox.

[Matthew Ojela]

Thank you all for your input. I probably should have specified that I was looking to start hunting elk and whitetail. However, I should also point out that my level of knowledge is next to theoretical; I've actually never gone out to hunt and have only been to a few ranges.

I'm familiar with the .22 LR, but I know enough that I would need something a bit more robust to take down decent-sized game. I don't own a .22 LR right now, but with your help, I've decided to pick one up. After a good bit of practice, I'll move on to a 6.5 CM since it seems to meet my requirements for cost and effectiveness.

As for what I consider long-range, let's just say I've never thought of shooting anything over 500 yards, at least not at my current skill level.

Thanks again, especially for being so informative and not trolling me about my lack of experience and possibly silly-sounding question.

[1972RedNeck]

Pretty hard to go wrong with a 30-06 for what you are looking for.

I have lots of rifles from big to small. 30-06 is my all around favorite.

[taylorce1]

My advice is buy a 6.5 Creedmoor and hunt deer, if you get an elk tag worry about an elk rifle. 500 yards is a long shot on any game, and it isn't a normal shot even out here in CO.

The 6.5 Creedmoor can handle elk if your confident in your abilities. My daughters friend has used it for 3 elk now his longest shot just over 400 yards. Most the rest were around 200 yards, he's 22 years old and more interested in AR-15 rifles. However, when he hunts elk or mule deer he packs a Tikka T3 Super Lite in 6.5 Creedmoor. My point is if you put a good bullet where it belongs, you're going home with an elk.

[tangolima]

I like 6.5CM. But for a beginner, .308 makes the most sense.

Don't think too much about going beyond 200yd yet. More important things are usually close by.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

FIRST, go take the NRA Hunter Safety course. Learn the safety rules for carrying firearms afield, and other basic things, particularly hunting ethics.

Sport hunting involves a LOT more than just shooting an animal. Find a mentor, or pay a professional guide to teach you all the things you need to learn how to do that aren't found on the shooting range.

Spotting game, stalking, tracking, along with field dressing, and many other things should be learned, and that takes time, and "hands on" experience.

Understand there is a difference between what you can do, and what you should do. Sometimes despite one's best efforts, the right thing to do is not to take the shot.

A couple of generations ago (or more) one of the old time hunting writers gave an opinion I found I agreed with. He was of the opinion that, if you ever took a shot at a game animal over 300 yards away, you should be forced to write yourself a letter or explanation, by hand, in triplicate (no carbon paper) explaining exactly why you HAD to take that shot.

Not being able to get closer, or it being the only shot you got that day were NOT valid reasons.

Selecting a rifle and cartridge should be further down the list, because the more you learn about hunting, and shooting, the better informed a choice you can make.

With your beginner skill level, of the ones you named, I would recommend the .308 Winchester. The round is everywhere, available in every kind of action type, from single shot to semi auto, from budget rifles to high end ones.

The .308 is a fine general purpose big game rifle, and particularly as a learning tool will serve you better than a more specialized round.

We're here to share our experiences, learn things we don't know, and pass along what we have learned. NO ONE begins as an expert (in anything).

Do watch out for information overload!

Ask anything, odds are good someone here has some experience about it. and welcome to TFL!

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ojela

Thank you all for your input. I probably should have specified that I was looking to start hunting elk and whitetail. However, I should also point out that my level of knowledge is next to theoretical; I've actually never gone out to hunt and have only been to a few ranges.

I'm familiar with the .22 LR, but I know enough that I would need something a bit more robust to take down decent-sized game. I don't own a .22 LR right now, but with your help, I've decided to pick one up. After a good bit of practice, I'll move on to a 6.5 CM since it seems to meet my requirements for cost and effectiveness.

As for what I consider long-range, let's just say I've never thought of shooting anything over 500 yards, at least not at my current skill level.

Thanks again, especially for being so informative and not trolling me about my lack of experience and possibly silly-sounding question.

It shows excellent self-awareness to know one's knowledge level, and humility to admit it. Just being here asking is a win.

Given your current level of knowledge, experience and ability, literally any big game capable hunting round would serve you well for years to come.
Shooting at long range is no easy task. On an animal, harder yet.

Far fewer experienced shooters would be capable of 500 yards shots, compared to the number of those shooters who think they would be.

The 6.5CM is a fine round that will serve you well.

[Shadow9mm]

Everyone starts somewhere. I think a 22 then a 6.5cm are an excellent place to start gun wise, and with good bullet choices should do what your looking for.

22s can be picky about ammo. Try a few different brands and types. I will say most 22s I have shot did well with cci standard velocity ammo.

[deadcoyote]

“I might be old or just lacking but either of those distances seems long to me.
For game hunting.”

So color me old as well. I was at a local charity function two weeks ago for cattle ranchers and there was a week long summer camp for teens where they said it was $850 for the weeks training but after the summer camp your teen could shoot deer at 1000 yards. I’m not trying to kick off some internet argument but this whole trend is pretty far out to me.