.40S&W vs 10mm GLOCK

[fragtagninja]

I would stick with the .40 S&W 10mm is a lot of bullet. The 40 already has great barrier penetration. The 10mm might be overkill and land you in trouble if you ever had to use it.

[zeke4351]

Most people never really carry the full power loads in either the .40 or the 10mm. I have a 10mm and I like it. Take a look at the gel tests showing all calibers that is shown somewhere on the web. Most of the time it does not show the 10mm down at the bottom because the other calibers don't come close to the 10. The gun experts that claim all calibers are equal dont want you to see that. No matter the caliber I am carrying I want the full power kick ass ammo in my gun for SD.

[Cricoid]

I can't believe there are people here that don't like the 10mm! Different strokes I guess.

I have a 29SF and a 20SF. Amazing pistols. The 29 is carried almost all the time. I reload light, heavy, and mild to wild. The handloaders dream cartridge.

Not difficult to shoot accurately and quickly at all, especially when backed down from thermonuclear loads.

It's the ideal semiauto cartridge IMO. Can't wait for a 9x25 barrel for my 20!

[lightjunkie]

Couldn't agree more with you about the 10mm .

[Ruger45LC]

As someone who owns both, you can't go wrong with either. I can attest that the recoil of a Glock 20 even with warm loads is not bad at all, but it's Glocks heaviest pistol too. I have a .40 S&W conversion barrel for it (KKM 6") that will not only let me shoot my warm .40's, but also long load the .40 to 10mm length (1.250-1.260"), essentially making it a 10mm.

However my first centerfire pistol was a Glock 23 and it's still one of my favorite models. Even using factory level loads like a 180gr JHP it will drop any deer in the woods. The same gun if you handload can launch a 180gr at 1200 fps. Not 10mm exactly, but more than enough gun to work with for sure.

Too many like their 10mm scalding hot and overpressure, but they don't realize that pushing bullets designed for typical .40 S&W velocity faster than they optimally perform isn't always a good thing. So really, for what it's worth I think the .40 will do just about anything a 10mm will.

I would take either of them out in the woods without too much hesitation, only a little bit though because I'd rather use my Glock 21 shooting .45 Super 250-300gr bullets with 850-900+ ft-lbs of energy (KKM 5" bbl), and the bullets are designed to handle that amount of energy too.

[jcshelto]

A little bit of background:

I own and shoot my Glock 22 and 35 extensively (For USPSA and IDPA). I reload and have developed some great .40 handloads. I think the Glock 35 is one of the coolest guns Glock makes.

With that said, I also own a Glock 20SF. I love that gun, and if my life absolutely depended on a handgun, that is the gun I would reach for. Ironically, my wife feels the same way (I was surprised). It isn't nearly as hard to shoot, even with nuclear loads, as people make it seem. As long as you have a firm grasp on the fundamentals, that is. It is a hugely versatile cartridge, but then again, so is .40. I consider the Glock 20 one of the few "must own" handguns out there.

I enjoy shooting my Glock 35 more than the 20SF, but I would absolutely rather have the 20 if my life depended on it.

[lightjunkie]

If I had to pick one gun between my Ruger P89. 3rd gen 17 , 19 or gen 4 in 22 or my 20 sf I would pick my 20sf , to me it has less of a snappier recoil and muzzle flip than my ! G22.
and with mild 135 gr to 220gr nuclear loads it could be used for about any conceivable situation.

[Mystro]

I am a hardcore 10mm fan and owner but I will admit that the newer bullets and hotter loads used in the 40s&w is very impressive and has evened the two calibers for two legged threats. A 165 Hornady Critical Defence load in 40 S&W is putting out 500lbs of energy. That's gonna be every bit effective as a hot 10mm load on people. I have killed deer with my 10mm loaded to the exact same spec and it dumps them as good as a hot 357magnum. If you don't reload, you can feel very consident with your 40.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

No since in buying a 10mm unless you are going to reload.

The 40 is better in the compact and more readily available.

Really like the Cor-Bon DPX rounds for SD. For reasons of design many 40S&W fail to avoid clogging (much like the 45 ACP) when penetration bone or heavy clothing. The Cor-Bon DPX get full expansion and weight retention is great.

[Koda94]

The 10mm was never designed around a 40S&W bullet. Its not a fair comparison of the two without including the original Norma 200g 1300fps 10mm load.

[lightjunkie]

Premium ammo favors the more common calibers like 9mm 40S&W and 45 acp such as Winchester new all copper alloys and corbons a Barnes combos I feel you have a wider range of options with a 10mm .

[coldbeer]

Looking at the Hodgdon 2013 reloading manual the 10mm gives approximately 100- 150 fps over the 40 S&W. Not that much really.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

The 10mm was never designed around a 40S&W bullet. Its not a fair comparison of the two without including the original Norma 200g 1300fps 10mm load.

Just the opposite the 40 S&W was designed for law enforcement after he 10mm. The development of the 40S&W was done by Smith & Wesson and Winchester had a hand in it as well if I remember correctly.The Round was also based on the lighter end of the 10mm for recoil and accuracy.

There is no doubt the 10mm has heavier and faster loads available, but it's lack of demand limited it's production. The more expensive and more rare 10mm rounds are not the first choice for a range gun you plan on shooting often unless money is not an issue.

Let's also say you chose to use the lighter loads of the 10mm that are comparable to the 40S&W in recoil and bullet weight as your main target and SD ammo to keep the recoil more manageable, the question is why?


The differences between comparable ammo in weight and power are one thing, but price and availability are another. The 10mm has more expensive and harder to find ammo so if you don't reload it makes more since to go with a 40S&W.

Nothing at all against the 10mm, just more practicable on a few levels.

[Dashunde]

Looking at the Hodgdon 2013 reloading manual the 10mm gives approximately 100- 150 fps over the 40 S&W. Not that much really.

Are those velocity figures using similar bullet weights?
Or is it 165gr for the .40 and 200gr for the 10mm?
The later of course, is a substantial difference.

[Oceanbob]

With that said, I also own a Glock 20SF. I love that gun, and if my life absolutely depended on a handgun, that is the gun I would reach for. Ironically, my wife feels the same way (I was surprised). It isn't nearly as hard to shoot, even with nuclear loads, as people make it seem. As long as you have a firm grasp on the fundamentals, that is. It is a hugely versatile cartridge, but then again, so is .40. I consider the Glock 20 one of the few "must own" handguns out there.

This^^^^ ..The G29 and G20 do it for me, with the G29 slightly my favorite.


My Glock 29 is the perfect gun. To me, there really is no better gun, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. I just can't believe that such an amazing gun exists, but is so under-appreciated. I am almost certain the G29 is Glock's worst selling model. It's really a shame.

Here's why it's perfect:
-It costs $500-550 (at that price, why not get two?)
-It's chambered in the amazing 10mm
-You get 10+1 rounds of anything from .40S&W to 800ft-lbs of energy, or 15+1 with G20 mags
-It's more than capable of human SD
-It's a capable woods SD weapon
-You can hunt with it
-You can go swimming with it
-It's accurate
-It's dead reliable
-Lube's not even necessary (but still advisable)
-You could mud-wrestle with it and it would still work
-It's cheap and easy to replace
-You can shoot .40S&W, .357SIG, or 9x25 Dillon with just a barrel change.
(same magazines!!)
-It's tougher than nails
-You can run .45ACP with a top end change (Glock 30)
-You can replace ANY part on the gun in the field with a damn stick
-It fits my hand as if Glock used my hand as the model (especially with Pearce +0 extensions)
-Did I mention it's chambered in 10mm?

10MM has more energy at 100 yards than a .45ACP has at the muzzle. It will take down a large automobile ...hehehe..

I'm sure there are some things I missed, but to me, it just doesn't get any better. I love my other guns, but they will always play second fiddle to the G29. I really can't imagine a better gun. I can't wait to get a Gen4 G29!

I like it so much, I own two.

(2nd choice would be a GLOCK 20....you already know the reasons)

Yes, I reload 10MM. It makes sense financially to roll-your-own. I make amazing ammo for my 10MMs. When out of 10MM, (which will never happen) I can switch in 8 seconds to .40- Or .357SIG....0r 9X25. This weapon is as versitile as you can get.

Be well
Bob

[Catfishman]

Several have mentioned that the .40 is snappier than th 10mm. Why would that be?
I've shot a G20 with various Double Tap bullets a lot and I've shot a G23 a few times. I hate shooting the .40 and I love shooting the 10mm. A midsize 23 and a full size 20 aren't apples to apples but they are similar.

[lightjunkie]

Understand because the G20 has a heavier slide. And built om a slightly heavier allafound frme of G20

[57K]

I'm not a Glock fan by any means, but I'd rather have one in 10mm than .40 S&W. Part of this is due to the 10mm being a better round for the handloader and part ot it is because of support of the case-head in Glock .40 S&W pistols. It's improved with gen 3 and gen 4 pistols, but still not satisfactory, IMO.

The 10mm can be loaded "down" to .40 S&W level and will have a lower operating pressure. Glock 10mm's aren't perfect either when it comes to case-head support, but easily able to handle the pressure of .40 S&W performance levels, or 10mm Start Charges. You'll really be better served with the 10mm if you're a handloader. I will give Glock credit, though, they contribute a good deal in keeping the 10mm alive. I'd love to see an XDm in 10mm or a Ruger SR10 since I own and recommend the SR45 without reservation. The SR45 would be an ideal platform for 10mm, but the market demand will determine whether or not Ruger ever makes one. I'll buy one if they do and there's always the chance that they might market the SR 1911 in 10mm.

[Mystro]

The problem I had with he G29 was its loss in bullet velocity. The 10mm needs a longer barrel to get anything out of it. I could never work a load up to get a full 10mm spec from a G29. The G29 was too close to a 40s&w in real world perormance. At that point I was better carrying the smaller G27 in a compact. I sold my G29 but kept the G20.

[Sevens]

Glock 10mm's aren't perfect either when it comes to case-head support, but easily able to handle the pressure of .40 S&W performance levels, or 10mm Start Charges.

There is truth to this statement in guns from days gone by, but it holds little or zero truth in the guns of today. Case in point is my EDC, a Gen 3 Glock 29, serial number MMLxxx, 2008 build date, that is as friendly to brass as any 10mm and friendlier to brass than a lot of other handguns on the market. (buddy has a Ruger SR-40C that wrecks .40cal brass)

I run 180gr FMJ at over 1,200 FPS (chronographed average) from the short 3.78" barrel and the only problem I ever have with any of my 10mm brass is losing the stuff in the weeds or forward of the firing line on an indoor range. And it keeps brass closer to me than my S&W 1006 or (god forbid!) my buddy's RIA 1911 10mm pistol. And I'm running well used and many multi-times handloaded and reloaded 10mm brass, not factory new Starline.

That's my EDC, nearly FIVE YEARS old, 4,600+ rounds.

I wouldn't call Glock pistols "Glocking" brass a myth, because it's absolutely based in pure fact. But it's old, OLD news, and it's not a problem today.

[57K]

There is truth to this statement in guns from days gone by, but it holds little or zero truth in the guns of today. Case in point is my EDC, a Gen 3 Glock 29, serial number MMLxxx, 2008 build date, that is as friendly to brass as any 10mm and friendlier to brass than a lot of other handguns on the market. (buddy has a Ruger SR-40C that wrecks .40cal brass)

Sevens, what has Glock done to improve 10mm case-head support and what "guns of today" are you talking about? 10mm 1911s have similar issues with non-ramped barrels and about the only thing left are the Tanfoglios/Witnesses. One problem that Glock has had from day 1, that's never been addressed, is the lack of a relieved ejection port. Cases hit it as they are being ejected and witnessed by the triangular scar left on the case-mouth. Feel free to post pics of your ejected brass. I've seen Glock owners say that they've never seen it, while I've never seen a Glock that doesn't do it. I bought a G22 as soon as I could locate one. There hasn't been any pistol chambered in .40 S&W to date that's had more Ka-Boom issues. Glock has improved, but aftermarket barrels are better. Then there's the whole polygonal bore farce when in reality it's done as a cost saving measure over conventional rifling. The vast majority of reloaders that I know who shoot cast lead bullets through their Glocks tend to do it with aftermarket barrels. Why buy a pistol knowing that it needs an additional barrel? And if you're one of those guys that claim that they shoot cast lead bullets with Glock's factory barrel, show us some groups.

[Sevens]

Haha, I see quite a run-on sentence where you seem to either ask or demand a bunch of "proof" of stuff in the form of pictures or otherwise.

Tell ya what, get on a plane and join me for a range day. It'll be worth the trip, I'll bring a gaggle of goodies and a heap of ammo, I'm usually out there for 4-7 hours each time out.

I will not, however, go buy a camera (last one got squished), post pictures (still need to find a hosting site I can live with) and gather up a bunch of evidence for a bunch of questions when it seems you won't take the words I've offered as though I have offered them sincerely.

I must have three thousand pieces of 10mm brass since I've been collecting the stuff for over 20 years, and none of it is Glock'd up. I don't own a "bulge buster" die and don't care to. I don't recall any massive onslaught of "triangular scar left on the case-mouth", but I've yet to meet a case mouth 'dent' that wasn't corrected by a sizing die in the 25 years I've been at the load bench.

Cast lead through an OEM Glock barrel? I've done it simply for curiosity sake. 200gr LTC handloads. I don't recall the groups being any more (or less) memorable than my FMJ groups. For my experience with cast lead through my OEM G29 barrel, exercise the search engine for my posts authored by me. Do your research, or come join me on a range day and we'll get the bottom of all your questions and whatever untruths you seem to hope that I'm attempting to infer.

[Sevens]

Don't forget to bring all of the 10mm chambered Ruger pistols that Bill Ruger would never allow production of. Sure, the Buckeye convertible Blackhawk, that one must have been approved while he was napping.

[Ruger45LC]

Originally Posted by 57K

I'm not a Glock fan by any means, but I'd rather have one in 10mm than .40 S&W. Part of this is due to the 10mm being a better round for the handloader and part ot it is because of support of the case-head in Glock .40 S&W pistols. It's improved with gen 3 and gen 4 pistols, but still not satisfactory, IMO.

The 10mm can be loaded "down" to .40 S&W level and will have a lower operating pressure. Glock 10mm's aren't perfect either when it comes to case-head support, but easily able to handle the pressure of .40 S&W performance levels, or 10mm Start Charges. You'll really be better served with the 10mm if you're a handloader. I will give Glock credit, though, they contribute a good deal in keeping the 10mm alive. I'd love to see an XDm in 10mm or a Ruger SR10 since I own and recommend the SR45 without reservation. The SR45 would be an ideal platform for 10mm, but the market demand will determine whether or not Ruger ever makes one. I'll buy one if they do and there's always the chance that they might market the SR 1911 in 10mm.

I definitely am a Glock fan, but I'm not so sure you could say the 10mm is better than the .40 for handloaders. While I'm not saying the .40 is better, I don't see one being any better for the handloader than the other and I load for both. FWIW, all of my Glocks are now Gen4 models and the case support is quite good for both the .40 and 10mm, possibly slightly better with the .40, but I wouldn't call either inadequate. I would agree that neither are to the level of say a good KKM barrel, but I've ran plenty of warm 10mm and .40's through my Glock barrels with zero issues.

And I do shoot lead through my Glocks and find that they shoot them very accurately. The last batch I shot was some cheapo 180gr hardcasts through the Gen4 G20 and it grouped an honest 1-1.5" at about 15-20 yds. I do keep my eyes out for any excess leading, but more often than not I see nothing excessive. My .45 Glocks eat a lot of lead and they don't lead at all.


It's my take that while I enjoy shooting both, I fail to see what the 10mm absolutely can do that the .40 absolutely cannot. In terms of performance, the .40 can shoot 99% of all JHP bullets fast enough that you begin to see not only bullet failure/fragmentation but also loss of penetration due to excessive velocity, so going beyond that is fruitless at best. I still shoot the 10mm, but that's not because I find it necessary in order to do something the .40 cannot, but simply because I have one and like to shoot stuff Both clearly take a back seat to my G21 .45 Super.

[57K]

Well here's an example of Glock's wonderful chamber support: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531903 and it occurred with a G21.

Ruger45LC, the point is that anything the .40 S&W can do can be done at much lower pressure in a 10mm case. Most .4005" JHP bullets are designed for .40 S&W velocity level but that doesn't hold true for all of them and the higher velocity that the 10mm is capable of requires an appropriate bullet. You Glock guys kill me with some of your claims: "The last batch I shot was some cheapo 180gr hardcasts through the Gen4 G20 and it grouped an honest 1-1.5" at about 15-20 yds."

What cheapo 180 gr. Hardcast load was that? An honest 1 - 1.5" at ABOUT 15 -20 yards? So your group measurements were accurate while your distance estimation may have been off by 25%?

You guys claiming that there are no leading issues with polygonal bores should really pay attention to sage advice that a polygonally rifled barrel needs to cleaned of lead residue much more frequently than a conventionally rifled barrel. Personally, I think you should shoot all of the cast lead you want to from a polyganol bore, its the advising others to do so that I take exception to.


Sevens, I've been at the load bench even longer so I fail to understand how someone of your experience doesn't notice the case-mouth scarring typical of Glock autoloaders. Why do you think that just about every other pistol maker in the world relieves their ejection ports. Check out the gunsmithing videos from API and you'll see that one of their first recommendations is to relieve the ejection port. Nor have you seemingly considered that the triangular scarring can lead to premature case-mouth splits. Reminds me of the old axiom: "when a man claims to have thirty years of experience, but has been doing it wrong for 29, he actually has 1 year of experience."

You Glock guys tend to forget that many of us have also owned and shot Glock pistols. Does Ruger make an SR 10mm? No, but do they really need to? Does the market warrant it? And if they did, it would be like all of their other SR poly framed autos that provide full support of the case-head. I don't need to search for any of your posts, I've seen them and can't remember anything particularly memorable about any of them, but I appreciate you catching the run-on sentence.

On second thought, which sentence do you perceive to be a run-on?