|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
January 3, 2019, 10:02 AM | #26 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why do Glocks, Berettas, XDs, S&Ws, etc, etc, have a reputation for running right out of the box while 1911s don't have the same reputation? It's becuase only Glock makes Glocks, only Springfield makes XDs, only Beretta makes Berettas, only Smith & Wesson makes S&Ws, etc etc. Everybody and his brother makes 1911s. Quote:
Quote:
Uncle Sam issued me a 1911 almost 50 years ago that I carried and used for a decade in some pretty nasty conditions. It never failed to function except for the occassional tap-rack-bang but it was only accurate from the TC hatch to the front slope. It was not a bullseye pistol, rattled like rocks in a can, could be disassembled just by looking at it, and bit the web of my shooting hand. |
|||||
January 3, 2019, 10:17 AM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
Your quote of his has lots of good information. It's a wonder that the 1911 functions at all given the violence of its operation. Most people don't realize how the cartridges bounce around during the process. The undue stress on the extractor due to a less than optimal nose profile leads to the obvious question of what is the correct nose profile? As you pointed out earlier, ordnace specs call or a rounded profile while we know that some current manufacturers use a flat profile. I'd very much like to see an analytical, head-to-head experiment measuring the forces involved with each profile. Thanks for the link. I'll follow it to see what else Bill has to say. |
|
January 3, 2019, 11:00 AM | #28 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Bill Laughridge and extractors
I just read everything at the link provided by Aguila Blanca. It is very informative and I recommend it to everyone. One section in the Bill Laughridge article that I'd like to point out is here:
Quote:
Another snippet from the article: Quote:
One thing that surprised me is that Bill didn't address extractor deflection at all. The writer of the article, Harwood Loomis, wrote, "No wonder most replacement parts have to be fitted in most 1911s." This is exactly the point I was making in my earlier posts. |
||
January 3, 2019, 11:14 AM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
The concept is the same in as much as you have to address geometry, deflection, and tension but the dimensions don't apply to the 9mm. Additionally, there are two schools of thought on how a 9mm extractor should apply pressure against the case. One way is as shown by niemi24s in his drawing where the case rim is in contact with the extractor's tensioning wall. The other way is for the edge of the 9mm extractor claw to be in contact with the flat portion of the case between the rim and the bevel. It's more difficult to make the 9mm tensioning wall apply the pressure. It's easier to make the 9mm claw apply the pressure. Easier is not always better though. |
|
January 3, 2019, 11:33 AM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2015
Location: The swamps of WNY
Posts: 753
|
Thank you.
I have an Officers Model. 3.5" barrel. The last round was hitting me in the face. I did the test with the magazine out. All rounds fell down and went out the bottom of the magazine well. I tensioned the extracter too much first and it would not feed. I took some tension off and it worked fine. No more brass in the face. It also worked with no magazine. Thank You David |
January 3, 2019, 12:11 PM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
Having hot brass making a line drive for your face is no fun. As you discovered this is caused by an extractor that loses control of the empty case during cycling. The empty case ends up getting smacked by the forward edge of the ejection port which bats the case straight back at the shooter. The reason it was only the last round that was getting batted back at you is because all the previous empty cases were being pushed clear of the ejection port by the next round in the magazine as it popped up or they were supported by the next round enough that the extractor was able to drag them back to make contact with the ejector. . Last edited by Steve in Allentown,; January 3, 2019 at 02:00 PM. |
|
January 3, 2019, 12:29 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2015
Location: The swamps of WNY
Posts: 753
|
I have a micro 9 that throws them 20 feet or more. It functions, so I have not messed with it. Figured slide speed was the reason.
David |
January 3, 2019, 12:33 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Extractor length
A follow-up to the Bill Laughridge article.
The problem of extractors that are too long can be addressed several ways.
|
January 3, 2019, 01:18 PM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 1,055
|
Thank you for your endorsements Steve,duly noted.
Normally I just file or stone the nose until there's clearance and move on,never broken one and I doubt I ever will for one thing I don't engage in expedient practices like loading rounds already chambered. They are inexpensive and widely available even if I did. |
January 3, 2019, 02:08 PM | #35 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
Quote:
Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 3, 2019 at 09:18 PM. Reason: typo |
|
January 3, 2019, 02:17 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Good to know. Perhaps I'll spend $40 to get one of these new ones to see how they compare to the unmodified EGW extractors I have on hand.
|
January 3, 2019, 02:32 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,288
|
I,for one,greatly appreciate Steve in Allentown's thread.
I believe it is a service to 1911 owners who are "hungry" for this info. Many folks may be better served by a good 1911 smith than DIY efforts,but in fact not everyone has access to a good 1911 smith.Most of the smiths that are skilled are between Boomer and Greatest Generation,which means we are losing them. I find the information useful,and as easy to understand as it can be.IMO,being able to do extractor maintenance/replacement is a good skill for a 1911 shooter. I fully expect there will always be different points of view.I'm happy to read discussion of alternative ideas. I'm a bit disappointed by the confrontational tone of some posts. There are better ways to discuss as Gentlemen. The style of Steves responses may serve well as a model |
January 3, 2019, 03:42 PM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 28, 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,756
|
Quote:
I wish I could add to this, but you said it perfectly.
__________________
Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
|
January 3, 2019, 10:00 PM | #39 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
I wanted to settle the question about obtaining permission from niemi24s to use his drawings in my posts so I dropped him a PM today. Below are the relevent portions of our interaction:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
January 3, 2019, 10:03 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,212
|
Wow kudos to you for going that extra step.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
January 6, 2019, 12:23 PM | #41 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,518
|
Quote:
That is certainly evidence that a loaded magazine does assist with ejection in a .45 with a short, G.I. style ejector. Extended ejectors may contact the rim before the magwell has been cleared by the rearward-moving slide, and there's no "assist" from the top round.
__________________
Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong. |
|
January 6, 2019, 12:42 PM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Posts: 1,055
|
Quote:
Extended ejectors protrude maybe a 1/16"little more and that does not keep the top round down and prevent it from pushing the round being ejected,ok you are saying that it is only the last round that fails to be ejected,here you may be looking at more than one cause for the stoppage,a magazine issue? you'll have to do some careful observation of the malfunction and go thru a process of elimination to solve it. |
|
January 6, 2019, 01:27 PM | #43 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
Areas "C" and "D" here: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...59&postcount=2 It's also possible though very rare that the J cut on the breechface was incorrectly cut allowing the case to miss getting solid contact with the ejector. Quote:
Last edited by Steve in Allentown,; January 6, 2019 at 01:33 PM. |
||
January 6, 2019, 04:36 PM | #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
You can see what your ejector is doing by removing the recoil spring, sliding an empty case under the extractor, chambering the empty case, inserting a loaded magazine into the pistol, and then slowly pulling the slide back until the case is knocked off the extractor by the ejector or until the next round in the magazine suddenly pops up. When I do this it's easier if I pull the slide off then put the empty case under the extractor claw and push the barrel back to chamber the case. Then I put the slide back on the frame and insert the slide stop to hold it all together. Then I insert the mag and pull the slide back. |
|
January 7, 2019, 08:58 PM | #45 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 21, 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 962
|
I join the call to make this a sticky in the smithy sub-forum. Thanks Steve. This was very informative, including the differing view points.
__________________
All that is neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke |
January 24, 2019, 06:47 PM | #46 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Extractor length follow-up
The length of various extractors came up earlier in this thread.
I measured an EGW Heavy Duty extractor that I had on hand and it's length was 2.3465". I contacted Cylinder & Slide and found out that their Ultimate extractor measured 2.365". So the C&S was .0185" longer than the EGW. If anyone has other extractors, I'd be interested to know how their length compares to these two. EGW 2.3465" C&S 2.365" Length is defined as "distance" in the picture below. |
January 29, 2019, 03:56 PM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,432
|
Quote:
Just got the EGW FPS fitted and radiused and added a little needed tension to the Ed Brown competition extractor. The claw is touching the flat area at the bottom of the case groove, and there is a gap between the rim and the tensioning wall, roughly .015". The claw in contact may not be optimal, but at least it sounds like a successful method. I have light tension, just enough to hold an empty case in place in any orientation. I know I don't want too much tension on the extractor with the light 12 pound recoil spring, that can cause feed issues too. I think I'm going to try it as is with the claw riding in the groove, it's not hitting the bevel of the case, and I can always remove a little metal from the claw later. Tougher to put it back. |
|
January 29, 2019, 05:50 PM | #48 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
As an FYI the ideal distance between the breechface and extractor claw is:
|
|
February 4, 2019, 06:40 PM | #49 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,432
|
Success!
Finally got to the range, +21º felt like a heat wave. Shot about 50 rounds in the 9mm Kimber with no issues at all. Ejection was very consistent except for the last round of each mag which was a bit erratic, but nothing landed closer than 2' to the gun. Most landed at a very consistent 6' at 4 o'clock. The small radius firing pin stop was a nice surprise, really smoothing out the recoil cycle. Felt like the slide was gliding instead of slamming. I thought that might cause trouble with my light target loads, but everything ejected about the same distance it used to. |
February 4, 2019, 07:25 PM | #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Posts: 196
|
Quote:
The last case ejected wasn't the same as the previous ones because the last case isn't being helped out of the ejection port by the next round in the magazine that taps the previous case as it snaps up into place against the feed lips. FWI, it was over 50 degrees in PA today. Tomorrow will be the same and then back to winter temps after that. |
|
|
|