Questions regarding Sig P220

Firepower! · November 12, 2009, 12:47 PM

Hi,
I have two questions regarding Sig P220. It is a West German made. The inscription on it reads:
"Hawes Firearms Co.
Los Angeles Calif.
Made in W. Germany"

First Question: is it American model or the European model? I am changing grips on this baby and want to know the above. It seems like that both enjoy different grips.

Second Question: how well are these W. German models compared to the current production P220s?
Thanks.

10-96 · November 12, 2009, 01:03 PM

Hawes was the folks that imported it into the U.S.
You has a honest to Pete 1st generation West German made Sig 220.

I don't know how they stack up to the current 220's- I have an old W. German one with untold # of rounds that was once part of this city's first SWAT team. I went through it with a new spring kit and it still runs like a champ. If it hasn't been abused- then it's a good one.

Firepower! · November 12, 2009, 01:10 PM

Is it an European or American for sake of ordering grips?

DBAR · November 12, 2009, 01:22 PM

European. It has the heal magazine release design doesn't it? It should, but I'm no expert.

The German made Sigs are considered to be one of the finest handguns on the market. The German made Sigs, are considered to be better than the current US production. The quality of the German guns is considered by most to be better when it comes to fit, and finish. With that being said, my P220 SAO that was probably made around 2006 works just fine, and it's proven to be 100% reliable.

You have a fine piece of Sig Sauer history, and you should be very proud, and happy to have such a fine piece. Don't make any drastic modifications to it. You don't want to change the gun any, but putting new grips on it won't hurt it. Just keep the orginal grips, you'll need them if you ever want to sell the gun. There are a lot of Sig Sauer collectors out there that would love to have that gun if it's in good condition.

I'd like to see it, you should post up a picture of it. In fact posting a picture of it is an un-written law.

DBAR

Firepower! · November 12, 2009, 01:26 PM

DBAR, thanks.

Yes the mag release is on the heal. I am changing the grips becase one pannel is cracked. Otherwise I would never have.

Is there a way to tell from serial number the date of production? It starts with 610XXXXX.

DBAR · November 12, 2009, 03:58 PM

There ar 2 letters on the bottom of the slide, just under the muzzle. Each letter is a number. jk=1989

A = 0
B = 1
C = 2
D = 3
E = 4
F = 5
G = 6
H = 7
J = 8
K = 9

Uncle Malice · November 12, 2009, 04:26 PM

DBAR, HOLY SCHNIKES!! I did not know that was the case. Good info!

Learn something new every day in this place.

wgsigs · November 12, 2009, 04:32 PM

I think the "6" is actually a "G" and you have one too many digits in the serial number. That last digit may be a proof mark. I've read on another forum that Hawes-imported SIGs used the same serial # sequence as the German SIGs while the Browning-imported SIGs used their own, a different one. You also didn't post enough digits. According to a post on SIGforum G102xxx were made in 1976 and G105xxx beginning in 1977.

As DBAR posted if there are proof marks on the bottom front of the slide, the the year of proof (usually the same or close to the year of manufacture) can be decoded using the table he provided, for example, '76 would be "HG".

christcorp · November 12, 2009, 09:57 PM

Just in case some care; not all the W. Germany P220's have the magazine on the heel of the pistol. Mine is a 1989 (JK), and it's the push button on the side between the grip and the trigger. But Firepower, I'd love if you would post to 2 letters that DBAR correctly mentioned. I collect P220's and other Sigs ; and would love to know how old yours is.

**44 AMP** · November 12, 2009, 10:01 PM

Bought new in 1980. Heel type magazine release. This gun is accurate, dependable, and has served me very well for 29 years now. W. German made.

If you are ordering grips, guns with the heel type mag release are "European". Guns with the push button release behind the trigger are "American".

Firepower! · November 12, 2009, 11:45 PM

The two letters are HH. So, I guess that means 1977?

Also the serial number is seven digit and starts with 610.

I just wish that grips werent broken and I had a masterpiece.

Firepower! · November 12, 2009, 11:58 PM

Here are the pictures. They also show why I need the new grips and screws!

k5koy · November 13, 2009, 07:26 AM

Wow! Great post! I have an older 220 as well...When I get to the store Im gonna have a look! I am also considering a grip change. I am thinking Hogue, let me know what way you are going...
Koy

DBAR · November 13, 2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Bought new in 1980. Heel type magazine release. This gun is accurate, dependable, and has served me very well for 29 years now. W. German made.

If you are ordering grips, guns with the heel type mag release are "European". Guns with the push button release behind the trigger are "American".

44 AMP

I love that Browning BDA, and I think you and I could work out a trade of some sort. That Browning is pretty old, I've got a new Sig P220, and I think I have enough guns that I could spare one for ya. I'd hate to think that your defending your life with such an old P220. You should email me immediatly, so we can do a trade....

Please....

k5koy · November 13, 2009, 11:17 AM

Ok, Just got the new Hogues installed, mine were the grips labelled "220 American side release" with the finger grooves. Great fit in my hand, and Im diggin em! Ok, turns out mine is a "KA" so 90 model, but looks like the importer for mine was Herndon VA. Guess I'll hang on to it!
Koy

colostomyclown · November 14, 2009, 12:13 AM

I'm going to chime in with some questions of my own. I have an american mag-release P220 and am considering the purchase of another W. German sig (side or heel release, doesn't matter). My question is, what upgrades would be deemed desirable? I want the guns frame and slide refinished...what would be the closest to the original flat black-almost-parkerized type finish? The Nitron stuff Sig offers seems way too glossy for a W. German Sig.

Also, is installing a short trigger and SRT reset system by the factory a bad idea on a W. German sig? Are Sigs "siglite" brand night sights any better than a Trijicon? Could I run into problems by installing a new firing pin in an older Sig? In fact, how bad of an idea is it to switch out everything in an older Sig except the frame/slide/barrel/hammer/insert block?

Thanks, and to the OP your gun is suhweeeet. Gotta love the old school 220's, definitely my obession right now.

Firepower! · November 15, 2009, 10:52 AM

I went with the wooden grips and hex screws. I am waiting on the delivery. Once I have them installed I will post a couple more pictures for before and after comparison sake.

Firepower! · December 1, 2009, 06:02 AM

Here are the pictures as promised with the new grip (that was delivered 20 minutes ago!).

Firepower! · December 1, 2009, 06:03 AM

Firepower! · December 1, 2009, 06:04 AM

k5koy · December 1, 2009, 06:12 AM

Good Looking pistol, Horrible photos...
Koy

November 12, 2009, 12:47 PM	#1
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Questions regarding Sig P220 Hi, I have two questions regarding Sig P220. It is a West German made. The inscription on it reads: "Hawes Firearms Co. Los Angeles Calif. Made in W. Germany" First Question: is it American model or the European model? I am changing grips on this baby and want to know the above. It seems like that both enjoy different grips. Second Question: how well are these W. German models compared to the current production P220s? Thanks.

November 12, 2009, 01:03 PM	#2
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Hawes was the folks that imported it into the U.S. You has a honest to Pete 1st generation West German made Sig 220. I don't know how they stack up to the current 220's- I have an old W. German one with untold # of rounds that was once part of this city's first SWAT team. I went through it with a new spring kit and it still runs like a champ. If it hasn't been abused- then it's a good one. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

November 12, 2009, 04:26 PM	#7
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	DBAR, HOLY SCHNIKES!! I did not know that was the case. Good info! Learn something new every day in this place. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

November 12, 2009, 04:32 PM	#8
wgsigs Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 222	I think the "6" is actually a "G" and you have one too many digits in the serial number. That last digit may be a proof mark. I've read on another forum that Hawes-imported SIGs used the same serial # sequence as the German SIGs while the Browning-imported SIGs used their own, a different one. You also didn't post enough digits. According to a post on SIGforum G102xxx were made in 1976 and G105xxx beginning in 1977. As DBAR posted if there are proof marks on the bottom front of the slide, the the year of proof (usually the same or close to the year of manufacture) can be decoded using the table he provided, for example, '76 would be "HG". Last edited by wgsigs; November 12, 2009 at 04:45 PM.

November 12, 2009, 10:01 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Browning BDA .45 Bought new in 1980. Heel type magazine release. This gun is accurate, dependable, and has served me very well for 29 years now. W. German made. If you are ordering grips, guns with the heel type mag release are "European". Guns with the push button release behind the trigger are "American". __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 12, 2009, 01:10 PM	#3
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Is it an European or American for sake of ordering grips?

November 12, 2009, 01:22 PM	#4
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	European. It has the heal magazine release design doesn't it? It should, but I'm no expert. The German made Sigs are considered to be one of the finest handguns on the market. The German made Sigs, are considered to be better than the current US production. The quality of the German guns is considered by most to be better when it comes to fit, and finish. With that being said, my P220 SAO that was probably made around 2006 works just fine, and it's proven to be 100% reliable. You have a fine piece of Sig Sauer history, and you should be very proud, and happy to have such a fine piece. Don't make any drastic modifications to it. You don't want to change the gun any, but putting new grips on it won't hurt it. Just keep the orginal grips, you'll need them if you ever want to sell the gun. There are a lot of Sig Sauer collectors out there that would love to have that gun if it's in good condition. I'd like to see it, you should post up a picture of it. In fact posting a picture of it is an un-written law. DBAR

November 12, 2009, 01:26 PM	#5
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	DBAR, thanks. Yes the mag release is on the heal. I am changing the grips becase one pannel is cracked. Otherwise I would never have. Is there a way to tell from serial number the date of production? It starts with 610XXXXX.

November 12, 2009, 03:58 PM	#6
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	There ar 2 letters on the bottom of the slide, just under the muzzle. Each letter is a number. jk=1989 A = 0 B = 1 C = 2 D = 3 E = 4 F = 5 G = 6 H = 7 J = 8 K = 9

November 12, 2009, 09:57 PM	#9
christcorp Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming Posts: 1,111	Just in case some care; not all the W. Germany P220's have the magazine on the heel of the pistol. Mine is a 1989 (JK), and it's the push button on the side between the grip and the trigger. But Firepower, I'd love if you would post to 2 letters that DBAR correctly mentioned. I collect P220's and other Sigs ; and would love to know how old yours is.

November 12, 2009, 11:45 PM	#11
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	The two letters are HH. So, I guess that means 1977? Also the serial number is seven digit and starts with 610. I just wish that grips werent broken and I had a masterpiece.

November 12, 2009, 11:58 PM	#12
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Pictures of the 220 Here are the pictures. They also show why I need the new grips and screws!

November 13, 2009, 07:26 AM	#13
k5koy Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Posts: 29	Wow! Great post! I have an older 220 as well...When I get to the store Im gonna have a look! I am also considering a grip change. I am thinking Hogue, let me know what way you are going... Koy

November 13, 2009, 11:17 AM	#15
k5koy Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Posts: 29	Ok, Just got the new Hogues installed, mine were the grips labelled "220 American side release" with the finger grooves. Great fit in my hand, and Im diggin em! Ok, turns out mine is a "KA" so 90 model, but looks like the importer for mine was Herndon VA. Guess I'll hang on to it! Koy

November 14, 2009, 12:13 AM	#16
colostomyclown Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Posts: 613	I'm going to chime in with some questions of my own. I have an american mag-release P220 and am considering the purchase of another W. German sig (side or heel release, doesn't matter). My question is, what upgrades would be deemed desirable? I want the guns frame and slide refinished...what would be the closest to the original flat black-almost-parkerized type finish? The Nitron stuff Sig offers seems way too glossy for a W. German Sig. Also, is installing a short trigger and SRT reset system by the factory a bad idea on a W. German sig? Are Sigs "siglite" brand night sights any better than a Trijicon? Could I run into problems by installing a new firing pin in an older Sig? In fact, how bad of an idea is it to switch out everything in an older Sig except the frame/slide/barrel/hammer/insert block? Thanks, and to the OP your gun is suhweeeet. Gotta love the old school 220's, definitely my obession right now.

November 15, 2009, 10:52 AM	#17
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I went with the wooden grips and hex screws. I am waiting on the delivery. Once I have them installed I will post a couple more pictures for before and after comparison sake.

December 1, 2009, 06:02 AM	#18
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Here are the pictures as promised with the new grip (that was delivered 20 minutes ago!).

December 1, 2009, 06:03 AM	#19
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109

December 1, 2009, 06:04 AM	#20
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109

December 1, 2009, 06:12 AM	#21
k5koy Member Join Date: November 1, 2009 Posts: 29	Good Looking pistol, Horrible photos... Koy