Some advice requested: shady subject at LEO house

[cannonfire]

Hello all. I dont post much and well I'll get down to it. Hopefully this is in the right place as I'm only interested in handguns for this HD situation.

I'm an LEO in a pretty large Metro Atlanta PD (Go Braves... ). Prior to that I did 8 years in the Marines. Most of my experience as far as guns are with semiautos (glocks for work and I carry a VP9). I recently bought my fiance a S&W Shield 9mm, which she loves and can shoot quite well. The only problem is that she has difficulty racking the slide to load a round or clear a failure. Now the gun came SUPER stiff, and more breaking in of the spring is required, this I know, but some odd things have happened around the house lately.

While I as at work one night, my fiance was putting up some Christmas decorations around the house when she saw a male walk past the window in my backyard and appeared to be looking for something. She ran upstairs, called the local police, and grabbed her gun (good girl) but the subject was gone by the time local police got there.

Two nights ago (actually about 0245 yesterday morning) after coming from a late showing of a terrible new Star Wars movie, I was upstairs while she was setting up some Call of Duty (wanted to hunt some nazis to cool off from the disappointment of a movie). She heard somebody knocking at the door, she asked if it was me knocking upstairs (which it wasn't), but when she turned around, she saw a male in my backyard and jumping over my rear fence, leaving the property. I called the local police (I don't live where I work) and checked the immediate area my self. Didn't see anything.

Last night while coming home, we observed someone walking in the neighborhood who the fiance said was wearing the same type and color clothing as the person from the previous night. By the time I pulled into my driveway (was not about to talk to this guy with the fiance and nephew in the car), he was no longer to be found. Then the fiance wakes me up later that night to say someone was banging on a window. I checked the area, nothing.

Right, so I said all of that to say this. It makes me nervous that she can't manipulate the slide every time on her Shield or any semiauto for that matter, whether its her small hands or she is too weak, etc. I was thinking about picking up a revolver for her to use but I don't have experience at all with revolvers. I know the very basics, loading/unloading, but not much about what to look for as far as brands or models or caliber.

Should I look for a revolver or is there something I can do with an aftermarket spring for the Shield? She's too small to safely handle the shotgun or even the AR.

Sorry for the long post. She currently has her Shield loaded at her bedside, but I'm still worried that she may have to defend her life and my nephew's life with a gun that she can't safely manipulate.

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I wouldn't carry a gun if I couldn't operate it well and neither would you.
She needs a different gun.

[Wishoot]

First thing, I'd install security cameras.

Second, take her to a range that rents and let her choose a gun.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Have you looked into a Walther CCP? Due to its operating system, it is much easier to operate the slide but is still an easy to shoot 9mm semi-auto.

[HiBC]

Its good if you can go to an indoor range that will let her try shooting them.
That,IMO,is the best way to find "Her" gun.

I'll also suggest that as long as this guy is an issue,she wear it on her person,in a holster,hot.,along with spending some time at that range training.

He might decide knocking is not working out.
Some kind of security cam with good resolution might get you an ID.

[cecILL]

Revolver sounds like the answer, but for an HD pistol, you only need to rack the slide the first time. Not reliable? Get a different gun.

[shuvelrider]

A different gun might work better for her, I don't buy in to the "stiff spring" theory on firearms. You should be able to work your preferred weapon without issue from the get-go. Or she could keep it cocked and locked with the safety engaged, if she is comfortable with that. Revolvers are pretty straight forward, I would make sure she could use the "double action" function. The trigger pull is usually a bit heavier than using it by cocking the hammer as a single action function. In reality a person does not have the luxury of time to manipulate a firearm in their comfort zone, so keep it simple. The "perp" seems to have the luxury of casing your house and patterns though. Also, light up your property at night. Find those dark areas and light them up, that gives you a buffer zone while you navigate your house with your interior lights off.

[mehavey]

Grab a used S&W Model-19 and load it with 38Sp+P.
Most important, get her some shoot/don't-shoot training education/training

[cannonfire]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses! Security cameras are already in the works but thank you for the suggestion. As far as lights are concerned, I always have my front porch, garage, and rear porch lights on at night and this joker is still poking around. But more lights never hurt.

As far as her training is concerned. We discuss shoot/no shoot scenarios, especially lately and get to the range pretty often to shoot.

And as most have said, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I couldn't manipulate a SD/HD firearm, hence why I was reaching out for options about her. We've been to many a gun stores, which is how she picked out the Shield. Honestly I was more worried about how the gun feels in her hand (as she can barely reach the trigger on some full size handguns) rather than focus on whether she can manipulate the slide.

I will check out the CCP and see if that is easier for her to manipulate. Thank you.

Maybe santa will bring some dumbells and hand grips to get her strength up...

[HiBC]

Technique may help.I have an M+P 9C...essentially a double stack Shield.
I do a "Hand over the top of the slide" thing rather than pinching the rear of the slide.

I wonder if PAX would have anything to offer.

[FITASC]

Before getting cameras and a new gun, I'd be getting a good dog, reinforcing door and window locks, then install motion sensor lights. In the meantime, go to a gun rental t=range and let her try as many as possible

[K_Mac]

It could be that she just needs a little instruction on how to best operate the slide. Pax is one of the moderators here, and has a website that offers tips for self-defense to women. The Cornered Cat is the name. She teaches a push/pull technique that makes racking a slide easier. Good technique may solve the problem.

While that may work long-term, it sounds like you need something now. I'm not a big fan of revolvers for personal defense from two legged preditors, but this is a spot where that might be a good option for now. It sounds like this is a home defense situation. If carry isn't a requirement a semi-automatic carbine is also an option.

Letting her find what she is comfortable with is best option. Good luck.

[FITASC]

If just for HD, a shotgun would also work well.

[UncleEd]

Seems strange a ne'er-do-well would
keep coming around after being spotted
multiple times.

[tallball]

1) big loud dog

2) 38 or 32 magnum revolver(s)

3) Did I mention the dog?


I don't worry about my wife and daughter when I am gone. They can both handle a 32 magnum revolver with ease, and we have two large dogs who bark like crazy at everything.

[Wishoot]

Originally Posted by UncleEd

Seems strange a ne'er-do-well would
keep coming around after being spotted
multiple times.

And hopefully NOT become more bold in his attempt to commit a crime.

[cannonfire]

Uncle Ed and Wishoot. I agree, I'm hoping its either
1. kids being kids because I'm LEO or
2. they are just cutting through my backyard to get to the houses on the other side, but why knock and do it?

That is what I'm hoping it is and that it doesn't turn into a burglary/home invasion/SD situation. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst I guess

As for the dog. I have a dog. A 65lbs pitbull... except he's deaf and will more than likely try to be a burglar's friend than attack them. Fiance does want a dog, so that may be another option

[BillM]

If it's just for HD, maybe go to a full size gun? They are sometimes easier
to manipulate. My wife is tiny, with arthritis in her hands. She has no problem
with a M&P Pro and a couple of 9mm 1911's. Revolvers and CZ DA/SA not so well.
On the harder to rack guns she grabs the slide hand-over-top and "punches" the
grip forward. Easier for her than pulling the slide back.

Mossberg makes some .410 pump shotguns that are designed/marketed for home defense.

[ammo.crafter]

My wife had similar issues with my Hi-Power and 1911.

After trying many handguns she settled on a Walther PK380 which can be kept with a round in the chamber (loaded chamber is apparent) with or without safety on, used either single or double action and who's slide is quite easy to retract.

[brian33x51]

Does this page help any?

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/r...ack-the-slide/

[Cheapshooter]

She's too small to safely handle the shotgun or even the AR.

How about her shotgun? Has she tried one of the smaller 20 gauge defensive shotguns?

[T. O'Heir]

"...the gun came SUPER stiff, and more breaking in of the spring..." All new firearms require a trigger job out of the box due to frivolous law suits. There's no such thing as "breaking in a spring".
"...why knock and do it?..." Assuming it is kids, teasing adults is fun. You never play Nicky Nine Doors as a kid?
"...bought my fiancé a..." She have anything to do with the selection?
"...She's too small..." Your lady's size has nothing to do with it. Had a small statured female in my CF Army Cadet Corps who could shoot circles around most of the great big lump males with an FN C1A1(Cdn. FAL of about 12 pounds empty.) or a No. 4 Lee-Enfield.

[ranchito457]

I work odd ball hours and it's very common for me to leave my house for work at 2am and leave my wife and 3 little girls alone-so when I leave I place a ruger sp-101 357 loaded with 38's in a holster behind her head between the beds mattress and bed frame but more importantly I arm my houses alarm and wake up my German Shepard. Given this person keeps coming back If I was you I would be having a serious conversation with my wife about bringing in a Dog..

[Wyosmith]

Well for home defense a carbine is always going to be better than a handgun. As a former Marine I am a bit surprised you didn't come to the same conclusion. Loaded with 50 or 45 grain varmint bullets the penetration and ricochet potential of a 223 is FAR less then a 9MM Pistol. The same can be said for the fastest light weight 22 LRs.
And as far as her being to small and weak, I'd say give her a chance with an AR and see if that's really true.
I trained 3 kids last year on ARs. The smallest one was an 11 years old girl and weighted 67 pounds and they all did great. So how small is your girlfriend?

Here is a simple test .
Put out a gallon paint can or milk jug at about 10 yards. Giver her a hand gun. ANY hand gun. Even a 22 auto.
Have her fire 5 hots at the can and time them. No shots count that don't hit the can.
Now do the same test with a 10-22 Ruger, or an AR 15.
I think the results will speak for themselves.

Now if you want to go to the next level, suspend the can on a string between two poles and let it swing, so it's a moving target. Do that at only 5 yards. It need not even be swinging fast.
Have her shoot any handgun and then try a 10-22 Ruger and an AR15.
Don't believe me. Believe the test. You'll see.

If she is not carrying the handgun on her body , (if she has to go pick a weapon up,) there is NO situation where a rifle is not going to be a better weapon than a hand gun. Handguns are best for immediate reactions, and long arms are best for responses in a few seconds more. And remember, it's 100% OK to pick up both. A handgun in a paddle holster or even one to tuck into your belt is OK to have on you when you are going to fight. I always did so when I was a Marnie. But get the rifle first!

I have been shooting since I was a pre-teen and I am an old man now. I also was a Marine, and "combat skills" was one of the subjects I was responsible for teaching to other Marines, as well as DOD personal for many years. I have been doing it now for nearly 40 years. I can hit the swinging paint can with all my pistol and revolver shots, but it's still easier, even for me, with a rifle. Especially if that rifle has a large peep sight on it. Or a low powered scope.

How much more easy is it going to be for a new shooter?

Do her a big favor and try my little test before you make a decision.


Body carry 24/7 is the very best, but it's something she will have to start doing and start training for, in a serious way. If she can't body carry a handgun (or won't) get her a rifle. Even a 22 rifle is FAR better than a handgun she misses with more than she hits with, and any handgun miss is a sever liability in any neighborhood.

In the vast majority of civilian shooting cases, the one that lands the first hit wins the fight, and in most of those cases the one getting hit survives, but knows as soon as they are hit that they can't really win, so they break off the engagement. This is not all-out war,and the crook has no supporting army and no supporting medical establishment to help him, not to mention that fact that what every he is after, from property -- to sex-- to control/power, is diminished, or totally removed as soon as they are hit one time.

Only hits count. A powerful hit is better than a non-powerful hit, but ANY hit is WAAAAAAAY better than a miss.

My daughter is "5 foot nothing" and weighs 115. She has an AR15 as her home gun. She hunts and killed deer and elk with her 257 Roberts and has killed about 6 of them on the run. Would not want to be a crook trying to harm her.

My Mom is 4' 10" and weighs 124, and is 88 years old. She has an AR15 as her home defense weapon. She doesn't hunt at all, but can hit the moving can about 80% of the time at 25 yards. Would not want to be a crook trying to harm her either. LOTS of other 88 year old ladies would be a better bet.

My wife is tall and slender, and she doesn't like the AR as much as she does her AK47, which she has killed deer and antelope with on several occasion including some moving shots. She carries a Kimber sub-compact 45 at all times, but in every instance where she has had time to grab her AK, she grabs it. She has killed only one varmint with her 45 and missed 4 others, but so far I have only seen her miss one coyote and one fox with her AK. All the other varmints she's shot at with her carbine, she's killed. (maybe 12)
Coyotes running away from her usually die when she shoots at them. How well do you think a crook would do trying to come towards her?

Those are the ladies I love and care about the most and if I believed that a handgun was in any way better, I'd teach the to give up on the rifle. But that's kinda stupid don't you think?
Can you show me one case where any military on earth issues handguns instead of rifles?

If the answer is no, ask yourself why.

Also ask yourself how many hunters kill their game every year with rifles and how many do it with handguns. Handguns are not even used as often as bows and arrows. Why?
Because they are the most difficult type of weapon to learn to use well, especially under pressure.

In order of difficulty to attain proficiency , from easiest to most difficult, we have studied weapons and fighting systems and come up with this list. It may not be exact, but I am sure it is very close.

#1 Light caliber rifles.
#2 Shotguns.
#3 Heavy caliber rifles
#4 Light caliber handguns
#5 Bows and arrows
#6 Heavy caliber handguns
#7 Slingshots.
#8 Spears and lances
#9 Long heavy knives
#10 Short knives
#11 Heavy swords.
#12 Unarmed combat.

Please, for the sake of your loved one, think about what I have written here.

[kenny53]

Have to police do some increase patrols. Try and find a gun that she can use. Ruger's SP 101 with a Wolffs #10 hammer spring works very well. I hope this is just some dumb kids screwing around and not a real bad guy.