T/C #13 or #17 cleaner ?

[rebs]

what is the difference between these two cleaners ?

[jaguarxk120]

I have no idea, use soap and water just like everyone else.

Pick up a copy of the muzzle loading cap lock rifle by Ned Roberts, great read.

[Hawg]

Dunno, never used either of them. Just use hot soapy water and save your money.

[Oliver Sudden]

Like the others I haven't used them but they maybe useful. Sales people will supply the products for any perceived need. You can't make money with out product. Water is still the best solvent. I use it cold with a dab of what ever soap is handy then oil well. But then I've only shot muzzle loaders for around fifty years, mostly custom built guns but plenty of store bought ones too.

[Hawg]

I've only shot muzzle loaders for around fifty years, mostly custom built guns but plenty of store bought ones too.

You've got me beat. I've only done it for 48 and only have one custom build.

[rebs]

I have been heating water in a tea kettle and using it scalding hot with Dawn dish soap so far. I have to hold the barrel with a pot holder because it gets so hot and th hot water evaporates leaving the barrel dry.
Does it work as well with cold water ?

[Hawg]

Cold water will work, hot just works a little better. I don't use it boiling hot because I like to hold the cylinders and barrel under water while I force water through them with bore mops. Of course boiling water may preclude the use of bore mops, it's just the way I've always done it.

[rebs]

I will give cold water a try and see how it works. I have used boiling hot water because it evaporates and leaves the barrel dry. But I have to hold the barrel with a pot holder because it get so hot. Then I run a bore mop with bore butter down the barrel a few times.

[Old No7]

Has anyone else heard that "too hot or boiling water will induce flash rusting"?

I've been encouraged to use hot water to clean it, but then warm or cool water to rinse, so as not to cause the above.

Curious about your thoughts on this..........

Old No7

[Hawg]

Has anyone else heard that "too hot or boiling water will induce flash rusting"?

I have heard it, never seen it. I don't boil, don't see any need to but I've used everything from almost freezing cold up to barely being able to keep my hands in it hot.

[rebs]

From your posts I am thinking I do not need boiling hot water, I will try straight hot tap water next time. Thank you guys for the help.

[Pahoo]

From your posts I am thinking I do not need boiling hot water

Not only do you not need hot water, you don't need water at all. The use of hot or cold water, is a personal choice. There are basically three methods of cleaning;

1) Water with some kind of soap.
2) Solvents
3) A combination of 1 & 2

If you are set on water, use method #3

Be Safe !!!!

[4V50 Gary]

13 v 17 anybody? I certainly don't know.

[Hawg]

Not only do you not need hot water, you don't need water at all. The use of hot or cold water, is a personal choice. There are basically three methods of cleaning;

1) Water with some kind of soap.
2) Solvents
3) A combination of 1 & 2

If you are set on water, use method #3

Why do you need solvents? Water is the best bp solvent there is.

[4V50 Gary]

A MS-DS will reveal the different composition between 13 & 17.

[Doyle]

Hot water and a little Dawn dish soap. Never saw the need to go any further.

[Pahoo]

13 v 17 anybody? I certainly don't know

In the early years, I used TC-13, and have not taken the opportunity work with #17. Seems to me that it might be addressing the use of Sabots. In recent years I have switched to a 50/50 mixture of Balistol and Mineral Spirts. So, for now, that is what I'm stuck on. There are many positives to Ballitol and the only negative may be, the smell. ......

Back in the 80's when I started using #13, there was only BP and Pyrodex soon followed. There were a number of BP solvents that were basically the same. You could tell by the smell of Murphy's oil soap. Most were very effective in working with Sulphur based propellants. Today there are many alternative propellants and I have to think that #17 addresses those as well .....

Be Safe !!!

[Pahoo]

Water is the best bp solvent there is.

Water is a solvent and not only the best but the only liquid used for cleaning everything. .......

Now then, after you get done with your water, what do you do? You wipe it down with some kind of liquid metal protectant to prevent any rust. That protectant acts as a solvent to clean up the water residue. First you fight the salts which are cleaned up very well by the water mixture and then you fight the product of the water, witch is rust. ......

Hawg, Tell me that after your water use, you hang her back up, on the wall.?
I think not ???

Be Safe !!!

[Hawg]

I wouldn't call anything I use a solvent. That's misleading.

[4V50 Gary]

So Pahoo, it's #13 for Heliege Schwarz and #17 for substitutes?

[Pahoo]

So Pahoo, it's #13 for Heliege Schwarz and #17 for substitutes?

Gary,
In my previous reply #17, I was only guessing at the difference in #17 as mentioned, I have never worked with it. Well, my guess turns out to be pretty much on point because it just seemed logical.

This solvent is specially formulated to effectively clean and neutralize the harmful fouling left in the bore from Triple Seven® and other black powder substitutes. T17® also helps to remove plastic, copper and lead deposits that could affect the accuracy of your rifle. A micro thin layer of protectant is left in the bore to prevent rust and corrosion and aid in easy loading. The active ingredients of this solvent penetrate even the most caked on fouling and helps to restore the bore of your rifle to factory condition.-CENSORED-8 oz. Bottle

Be Safe !!!

[Model12Win]

Pick up a copy of the muzzle loading cap lock rifle by Ned Roberts, great read.

Fantastic book. Ned will teach you a lot about caring for a muzzleloader, and I've been using hot soapy water with great success for cleaning.