Beater p38

Surp · October 22, 2015, 01:50 AM

Finally got a P-38! Although it is kind of "historically ruined" and I probably overpaid a bit I think i'll be just fine with it if I can get her up and running.
it's a CYQ J block that is miss the firing pin lock (only part I know of so far) probably from the top cover blowing off. Anyway anyone know where I can find one of the old style ones to replace the missing part?
I know Numrich has the new P1 style but they are all sold out of the older style as is every other place I have seen.

Doc Hoy · October 22, 2015, 02:36 AM

I have one that is the newer style and it still stumped Numrich for an extractor plunger. I had to make it.

How much difference is there between the old and the new one?

Maybe modify the new one to fit?

gyvel · October 22, 2015, 02:02 PM

Did you try Sarco or Poppert's?

Surp · October 22, 2015, 06:31 PM

Sarco only has the new style as well but i will give Poppert a try tomorrow. Thanks.

Surp · October 22, 2015, 06:38 PM

to tell you the truth I'm not exactly sure how much difference there is or if it would even be possible to modify one to work I just know the firing pin etc is different in the newer models. being a tinkerer and with the part being so cheap I thought about trying to modify one of the newer ones but I would really just prefer to get the correct part in this case.

kilimanjaro · October 23, 2015, 03:06 PM

Canvas your local gunsmiths, as well, they may well have a cabinet full of milsurp spare parts.

Surp · October 24, 2015, 12:07 AM

From what I have seen so far pretty well no shops have anything mil surp around here and they just order parts when you need them.

Doc Hoy · October 25, 2015, 02:04 AM

I ordered from Numrich. Ordered spring and plunger at the same time. Plunger was back ordered and no one knew when the back order would be filled.

After some weeks (maybe as many as six) the plunger came in wrong. Only one person at Numrich knew there were two versions of the plunger/spring set up. No one was certain of being able to get the right part.

I made one from a welding rod. I fully expect it to wear out early. But if it does, I'll just make another one. I just did not have the strength to wait another 6 weeks for the wrong part to arrive.

crazy charlie · October 25, 2015, 06:56 PM

Suggest contacting Luger Doc.
He's on the P38 forum.

Surp · October 25, 2015, 09:29 PM

Do you have some way I could contact him?

Surp · October 25, 2015, 09:31 PM

I think I just found his contact info and if it's him he isn't all that far from me.

Surp · October 26, 2015, 06:32 PM

Tried all those places and a few others.
I got one place that told me they had one but could not tell if it was a old or new style just that it said p38 on the parts bag so I had them send it even though I am pretty sure it's not the right part and then Poppert's sent me to a guy who actually has one but the price is on the higher side (nothing to crazy) and he only takes check/money order. I wasn't able to get ahold of tom/Luger doc so I am going to try to get in touch with him before I send off the check for the part.

SIGSHR · October 30, 2015, 02:58 PM

Define "historically ruined" All matching numbers are a nice find but I suspect the Wehrmacht's ordnance service was more concerned with getting them back inaction instead of keeping them "correct".

kilimanjaro · October 30, 2015, 03:07 PM

Same with the Russian Capture pieces, and the French assembly of several thousand P38s in 1945 to issue to their police forces. These are all genuine government 'issue' pieces and not to be sneezed at. The French did issue their mixmasters, and the Russians certainly intended on doing exactly the same thing if their strategic arms reserve ever needed to be tapped.

James K · October 30, 2015, 10:56 PM

FWIW, one of the most accurate handguns I ever fired was a P.38 that was made up of parts from all three makers, though I now forget the exact combination. It had a great trigger pull, and gave me about 1" groups at 25 yards (from a rest). At 50 feet, groups were one hole. It looked like cr*p and no collector would have looked at it twice, but whatever magic was involved, the disparate parts worked together to produce a real tackdriver.

Jim

Doc Hoy · October 31, 2015, 05:35 AM

If you read it carefully you will find all (or at least most) of the factors which combine to make this stuff enjoyable.

He talked about reliable accuracy and to many accuracy of a firearm is the most important thing.

He also mentioned collector value. I am not a collector, I am an accumulator but I do understand the approach that true collectors take.

He spoke of the visual appeal of a given firearm. The beauty of the 1860 Colt is well known and almost universally accepted, never mind that it shoots high, never mind that it swallows caps, never mind that in brass frame rendition the reliability doesn't forgive abuse.

How about the interaction of parts in a system at an engineering level. He mentioned that.

I can think of only one thing he might have left out as a factor in why a shooter likes this pistol or that pistol. That us user-friendliness.

No surprise that from James, we would get true wisdom.

Surp · November 1, 2015, 01:20 AM

SIGSHR here is the definition.

I was told it is a Non-Import and is matching but this J block Spree has obviously been nickeled and has sweetheart grips. Although It's not necessarily a showpiece as far as most are concerned I personally feel it has it's own history.

SIGSHR · November 3, 2015, 03:53 PM

Only thing I see wrong with it are those aftermarket grips. Again, all-matching is nice and factory correct, but a "Frankengun" with correct period parts is historically correct.

Surp · November 4, 2015, 11:11 PM

Historically correct other than the fact every part is nickel plated so historically correct to itself/own history. The grips are not exactly aftermarket. They are handmade sweetheart grips made by either the vet that brought it back or the guy he took it from. Either way someone put a lot of time into them and they are actually very interesting.

Bart Noir · November 25, 2015, 07:55 PM

It isn't really a sweetheart grip unless at least one side covers a portrait picture of a young lass with a 1940's American hairdo.

Bart Noir
So many crashed airplanes with plexiglass canopies, so little time to whittle on them.

James K · November 25, 2015, 10:46 PM

Hi, Doc Hoy,

Gee, I said all that? But I didn't say I owned the gun; it belongs to an acquaintance.

Every once in a while luck or whatever produces a production gun that is super accurate. When I was in the Army at Ft. Polk, I had in the arms room a half dozen M1911A1 pistols and one M1911*. The latter gun had never been rebuilt, altered, refinished, or worked over in any way that I could tell. The finish was about 90%, and except for small finish wear, it was as it left Colt sometime before WWI. That gun drove tacks. No other pistol we had could touch it, and even some match guns I tried would not shoot as well. I have since fired other M1911's and Government Models from that general period that were unquestionably better fitted than the WWII era guns but none came close to that old Colt for accuracy. Explanation? I have none.

*Contrary to common belief, the pistols were not for our officers. We were a signal company and the pistols were for our photographers who were expected also to carry a camera (and not a tiny cell-phone camera either - these were Speed Graphics). Of course, when we hit the field, the CO, XO and platoon leaders commandeered the pistols; the photogs got the carbines the officers were supposed to carry. RHIP, folks.

Jim

gyvel · November 26, 2015, 04:26 AM

Jim:

My father, in the Signal corps, was on the Empire Javelin which was torpedoed on 12/28/44 in the Channel. He had enough presence of mind to go back below and get his camera, but lost everything else

After being rescued by LST 325, most of the survivors were taken to Le Havre and issued new gear, including a .45. This was promptly confiscated shortly after and he was reissued a carbine.

He did manage to take pics of the Javelin as she sank, and his are the only known photos of the event.

October 22, 2015, 01:50 AM	#1
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Beater p38 Finally got a P-38! Although it is kind of "historically ruined" and I probably overpaid a bit I think i'll be just fine with it if I can get her up and running. it's a CYQ J block that is miss the firing pin lock (only part I know of so far) probably from the top cover blowing off. Anyway anyone know where I can find one of the old style ones to replace the missing part? I know Numrich has the new P1 style but they are all sold out of the older style as is every other place I have seen.

October 22, 2015, 02:36 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Surp I have one that is the newer style and it still stumped Numrich for an extractor plunger. I had to make it. How much difference is there between the old and the new one? Maybe modify the new one to fit? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 22, 2015, 02:02 PM	#3
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Did you try Sarco or Poppert's? __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE Last edited by gyvel; October 22, 2015 at 02:09 PM.

October 22, 2015, 06:38 PM	#5
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	to tell you the truth I'm not exactly sure how much difference there is or if it would even be possible to modify one to work I just know the firing pin etc is different in the newer models. being a tinkerer and with the part being so cheap I thought about trying to modify one of the newer ones but I would really just prefer to get the correct part in this case. Last edited by Surp; October 25, 2015 at 04:46 AM.

October 25, 2015, 02:04 AM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	When I needed that extractor plunger.... I ordered from Numrich. Ordered spring and plunger at the same time. Plunger was back ordered and no one knew when the back order would be filled. After some weeks (maybe as many as six) the plunger came in wrong. Only one person at Numrich knew there were two versions of the plunger/spring set up. No one was certain of being able to get the right part. I made one from a welding rod. I fully expect it to wear out early. But if it does, I'll just make another one. I just did not have the strength to wait another 6 weeks for the wrong part to arrive. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 22, 2015, 06:31 PM	#4
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Sarco only has the new style as well but i will give Poppert a try tomorrow. Thanks.

October 23, 2015, 03:06 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Canvas your local gunsmiths, as well, they may well have a cabinet full of milsurp spare parts.

October 24, 2015, 12:07 AM	#7
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	From what I have seen so far pretty well no shops have anything mil surp around here and they just order parts when you need them.

October 25, 2015, 06:56 PM	#9
crazy charlie Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: PA Posts: 229	Suggest contacting Luger Doc. He's on the P38 forum.

October 25, 2015, 09:29 PM	#10
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Do you have some way I could contact him?

October 25, 2015, 09:31 PM	#11
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	I think I just found his contact info and if it's him he isn't all that far from me.

October 26, 2015, 06:32 PM	#12
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Tried all those places and a few others. I got one place that told me they had one but could not tell if it was a old or new style just that it said p38 on the parts bag so I had them send it even though I am pretty sure it's not the right part and then Poppert's sent me to a guy who actually has one but the price is on the higher side (nothing to crazy) and he only takes check/money order. I wasn't able to get ahold of tom/Luger doc so I am going to try to get in touch with him before I send off the check for the part.

October 30, 2015, 02:58 PM	#13
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Define "historically ruined" All matching numbers are a nice find but I suspect the Wehrmacht's ordnance service was more concerned with getting them back inaction instead of keeping them "correct".

October 30, 2015, 03:07 PM	#14
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Same with the Russian Capture pieces, and the French assembly of several thousand P38s in 1945 to issue to their police forces. These are all genuine government 'issue' pieces and not to be sneezed at. The French did issue their mixmasters, and the Russians certainly intended on doing exactly the same thing if their strategic arms reserve ever needed to be tapped.

October 30, 2015, 10:56 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, one of the most accurate handguns I ever fired was a P.38 that was made up of parts from all three makers, though I now forget the exact combination. It had a great trigger pull, and gave me about 1" groups at 25 yards (from a rest). At 50 feet, groups were one hole. It looked like cr*p and no collector would have looked at it twice, but whatever magic was involved, the disparate parts worked together to produce a real tackdriver. Jim

October 31, 2015, 05:35 AM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Take a Look at JamesK's last post If you read it carefully you will find all (or at least most) of the factors which combine to make this stuff enjoyable. He talked about reliable accuracy and to many accuracy of a firearm is the most important thing. He also mentioned collector value. I am not a collector, I am an accumulator but I do understand the approach that true collectors take. He spoke of the visual appeal of a given firearm. The beauty of the 1860 Colt is well known and almost universally accepted, never mind that it shoots high, never mind that it swallows caps, never mind that in brass frame rendition the reliability doesn't forgive abuse. How about the interaction of parts in a system at an engineering level. He mentioned that. I can think of only one thing he might have left out as a factor in why a shooter likes this pistol or that pistol. That us user-friendliness. No surprise that from James, we would get true wisdom. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 1, 2015, 01:20 AM	#17
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	SIGSHR here is the definition. I was told it is a Non-Import and is matching but this J block Spree has obviously been nickeled and has sweetheart grips. Although It's not necessarily a showpiece as far as most are concerned I personally feel it has it's own history. Last edited by Surp; November 1, 2015 at 01:31 AM.

November 3, 2015, 03:53 PM	#18
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Only thing I see wrong with it are those aftermarket grips. Again, all-matching is nice and factory correct, but a "Frankengun" with correct period parts is historically correct.

November 4, 2015, 11:11 PM	#19
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Historically correct other than the fact every part is nickel plated so historically correct to itself/own history. The grips are not exactly aftermarket. They are handmade sweetheart grips made by either the vet that brought it back or the guy he took it from. Either way someone put a lot of time into them and they are actually very interesting. Last edited by Surp; November 4, 2015 at 11:18 PM.

November 25, 2015, 07:55 PM	#20
Bart Noir Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2000 Location: Puget Sound, USA Posts: 2,215	It isn't really a sweetheart grip unless at least one side covers a portrait picture of a young lass with a 1940's American hairdo. Bart Noir So many crashed airplanes with plexiglass canopies, so little time to whittle on them. __________________ Be of good cheer and mindful of your gun muzzle!

November 25, 2015, 10:46 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Doc Hoy, Gee, I said all that? But I didn't say I owned the gun; it belongs to an acquaintance. Every once in a while luck or whatever produces a production gun that is super accurate. When I was in the Army at Ft. Polk, I had in the arms room a half dozen M1911A1 pistols and one M1911. The latter gun had never been rebuilt, altered, refinished, or worked over in any way that I could tell. The finish was about 90%, and except for small finish wear, it was as it left Colt sometime before WWI. That gun drove tacks. No other pistol we had could touch it, and even some match guns I tried would not shoot as well. I have since fired other M1911's and Government Models from that general period that were unquestionably better fitted than the WWII era guns but none came close to that old Colt for accuracy. Explanation? I have none. Contrary to common belief, the pistols were not for our officers. We were a signal company and the pistols were for our photographers who were expected also to carry a camera (and not a tiny cell-phone camera either - these were Speed Graphics). Of course, when we hit the field, the CO, XO and platoon leaders commandeered the pistols; the photogs got the carbines the officers were supposed to carry. RHIP, folks. Jim

November 26, 2015, 04:26 AM	#22
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Jim: My father, in the Signal corps, was on the Empire Javelin which was torpedoed on 12/28/44 in the Channel. He had enough presence of mind to go back below and get his camera, but lost everything else After being rescued by LST 325, most of the survivors were taken to Le Havre and issued new gear, including a .45. This was promptly confiscated shortly after and he was reissued a carbine. He did manage to take pics of the Javelin as she sank, and his are the only known photos of the event. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE