The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 1, 2015, 07:15 PM   #26
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt30-06
Federal primers are a few thousands of an inch larger in diameter than all the other primers.
Primer pockets from the major manufacturers are ±0.0004" or ±0.0005". Primers themselves are likewise with tolerances of about half a thousandth. 0.01746" to 0.1751" is the standard range, however, they can be out of round by up to another half thousandth, and if you measured the longer dimension you might be confused by what the dimension actually is. Also, the average person using a caliper cannot get an accurate measurement this fine, and an OD thimble micrometer has to be used. Caliper measurements can err up to two thousandths fairly easily at the hands of those without tool room experience. Federal primers are among the easiest seating primers in any size, so the idea that they are several thousandths oversize is not remotely feasible.


The issue with Federal brass is that it is "low brass" of 80 parts copper to 20 parts zinc. So is Remington brass, by the way, but it is work-hardened more than Federal. Federal has found that softer brass improves accuracy by allowing pressure to self-center the brass more freely in the chamber, so they do this on purpose. Their primary objective is accuracy, not reloadiablility. The problem experienced by some shooters with this is that if they load to their rifles to near peak pressure limits, and at those pressure Federal brass can expand too much to be reloaded again. Indeed, some Federal factory ammunition in Magnum chamberings has been found to eject with the primer already falling out of the case, as the case head has expanded beyond the normal tolerance range at that magnum pressure.

That same softness, however, has an advantage. It doesn't harden and split as easily as some other brass. The trick is to avoid loading federal brass all the way to maximum pressures. If you just use it at moderate pressures, it lasts a long time and works very well. In pistol brass, as long as you are using a chambering that is not extremely high pressure, Federal brass is really great. It seems to tolerate resizing an almost unlimited number of times. I have personally reloaded both Winchester and Federal cases over 50 times in .45 ACP loaded to target pressures. This was Winchester brass from the 1980's, before outsourcing was so common. I can't speak to how it holds up today. It was genuine 70% copper, 30% zinc cartridge brass back then.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old October 1, 2015, 07:17 PM   #27
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,700
Franklin,

Sometimes you crack me up until I've got my beer coming up through my nose. This was one of those occasions.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old October 2, 2015, 10:34 PM   #28
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,212
I had a lot of FC brass when I started. I got maybe 8 rounds out of it before it had case separation at the rear. I have since worked to reduce the setback on sizing.

RP has done well with that and not sure of FC as I am still "collecting" enough to do another round.

CC primers are a tad bigger (no known details) and you can use those if you can find them.

RP and FC are the heaviest brass around. Ergo the old advice that military brass should be loaded down is a bit odd, the HXP is in the lighter end of the weigh range.

I would be careful with full loads in RP or FC.
RC20 is offline  
Old October 2, 2015, 10:48 PM   #29
oldreloader
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Location: Magnolia, Arkansas
Posts: 251
I've been reloading since the 60's. I use Federal brass (and others) without problems. Like Unclenick said I don't load max loads either. If it isn't beriden or steel, I'll load it.
oldreloader is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 01:59 PM   #30
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,288
I had a bunch of Federal when I started loading from shooting Federal Fusion. I couldn't find Lapua brass when I ordered but I ordered some Norma to try. I've loaded the Norma 5-6 times and find it worthless for the money. I've probably loaded the Fede.ral 10-12 times and it's still going. I have some factory Hornady brass I've probably loaded 20 times or better. I just try to make my same loads, bullets and primers in the same brass.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 05:05 PM   #31
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,577
Wendy-what gives with the Norma?. That is top of the line Brass right along Lapua. Never heard anyone say this before.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 05:36 PM   #32
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,288
Don't know 4 runner. It shot like a champ. My first mid range loads in my 308 gave me 2 split head cases. Now the primers are falling out of the pockets. I'm using CcI BR-2 primers. 40 to 40.5 grains of Varget under a 178 Amax. Headspace at .0025. Barely have to trim at all. They were quite pricey at Midway too. I just bought 20 to try them. Maybe I got a bad run. I was told it was great brass. So far Hornady and Lake City match brass is lasting the longest and I'm running 4.5 grains of Varget under a 180 Nbt. Next to Lapua I was informed I couldn't get any better. Just my luck I guess.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 06:57 PM   #33
Average Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2005
Location: Easton, PA
Posts: 1,174
Keep it, its good brass.
Average Joe is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 10:16 PM   #34
4runnerman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,577
Sorry to hear that Wendy. I myself have never purchased Norma, But I do buy lots of Lapua.
__________________
NRA Certified RSO
NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional
4runnerman is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 11:07 PM   #35
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,329
I haven't worked a whole bunch with Norma brass. Had to when I had a 6.5x54 M/S and stuff was as soft as mush. Bought a Ruger #1B quite a few tears ago in .257 Robt. and he threw in 5 boxes of Norma ammo. I fired just enough to sight the rifle in and that was some very accurate ammo. Haven't reloaded any though and as far as I can tell Norma does not load the .257 "Bob" anymore.
I keep hearing how great Nosler brass is so I splurged and bought 100 cases ti try in my .280 Remington. It really looks like top drawer stuff but we'll see once I get some loaded up.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old October 3, 2015, 11:11 PM   #36
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,329
I haven't worked a whole bunch with Norma brass. Had to when I had a 6.5x54 M/S and stuff was as soft as mush. Bought a Ruger #1B quite a few tears ago in .257 Robt. and he threw in 5 boxes of Norma ammo. I fired just enough to sight the rifle in and that was some very accurate ammo. Haven't reloaded any though and as far as I can tell Norma does not load the .257 "Bob" anymore.
I keep hearing how great Nosler brass is so I splurged and bought 100 cases ti try in my .280 Remington. It really looks like top drawer stuff but we'll see once I get some loaded up. Kinda pricey though.
Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Old October 4, 2015, 07:47 AM   #37
Road_Clam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,400
Per the experts there is good brass, there is better brass, and there is the best (Lapua). Like everything you pay a premium for the premium stuff. I have had equally excellent results with LC , RP , Win , and Wolf brass. I notice no measurable strength or weaknesses between all the above mentioned brass. I always purchase once fired brass for very short money as I am only a recreational shooter who's only competition is myself. Expensive Lapua brass enhances the experts precision consistency. Myself being an amateur , expensive Lapua brass will just drain my wallet , shooting more and working on improving my shooting deficiencies will make for better consistency. FC brass is good brass, i'm just not seeing comparable reloadings vs the other common brass. I too am by no means a velocity nut, I load for precision , and maximum barrel life If my data shows a sweet accuracy node at 2475 fps and then again at 2560 , I will always choose the lesser, no point in wasting powder and barrel life if I don't need they added velocity.
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

Last edited by Road_Clam; October 4, 2015 at 07:53 AM.
Road_Clam is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.06399 seconds with 10 queries