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Old December 1, 2008, 09:26 PM   #1
Huckster
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Stuck cases in rifle after firing

I bought my wife a Remington 7600 pump 30-06. I also load 30-06 rounds for other rifles and never had any issues. Some (few) of my handloaded casings stick in the new rifle after being fired. The casing stick even on the first shot with a cold chamber. I have never experienced this in my gun with about 1000 rounds fired. I reload with RCBS full length dies. Could I have the sizing die set improperly causing the problem? I wonder if my chamber has a looser chamber and that is why Is the gun the issue? I can rack through loaded handloads as fast as I can pump the gun without any issues. Any suggestions??

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Old December 1, 2008, 09:42 PM   #2
Nnobby45
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Be more specific and tell us exactly what load you fired in your wife's rifle.

Pumps can be finicky and require ammo sized properly for proper function. Since your ammo feeds, but "sticks" upon ejection, then that doesn't seem to be the issue.

What do you mean stick? Just hard to eject, or really sticks?

I'm not familiar with pump 30-06 rifles, but with bolt actions, the sticking bolt is very likely a sign of high pressure.

Try factory ammo and if that works ok, then look no farther than your handloaded ammo for the source of the problem. If your handloads are pushing the envelope, reduce the pwd. chg. down to moderate levels. Could be max for your rifle is more than max for hers.

You should know how to check for cratered or flattened primers, and ejector marks on the case head--high pressure signs.

It doesn't matter if your chamber is "looser". When the round is fired in any rifle, it fire forms itself to fit the chamber perfectly, then contracts for easy extraction----EXCEPT WHEN PRESSURE IS TOO HIGH.

To recap: if the ammo chambers ok before firing, and something happens during firing to prevent easy extraction, I suspect high pressure. Again, fire some factory ammo.


I STRONGLY recommend having different ammo for the two rifles. Each sized to fit the specific chamber just enough for easy chambering. That means the rifle's ammo with the biggest chamber won't fit the smaller chamber.

If you have rifles with big differences in chamber size (but still within spec), and size the ammo to fit the small chamber (which you'd have to do), there's too much headspace when firing the ammo in the rifle with the big chamber.

If headspace is close for the two rifles, then you can interchange the ammo (I still don't like the idea). RCBS makes a Mic gage that precisely measures chambers (the fired case) and tells you what the headspace is. Just size the case so it's .003, or so, smaller than the fired diameter.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 1, 2008 at 10:25 PM.
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Old December 1, 2008, 10:07 PM   #3
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You didn't say if it was a ruptured case (pulled the base off leaving the rest of the brass in the chamber.

Stretched cases in pump and leveractions are quite common with rimless cases.

Another problem is with pumps and levers you dont have the camming action of the bolt guns to get the case started.

I think you will find out in pumps and levers you wont get near the reloads per case you get from bolt guns.

Still, it could be excessive headspace. It would warrant having it checked with proper headspace gages. (meaning Go and NO Go gages, I dont like and wont have a field gage).
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Old December 1, 2008, 10:23 PM   #4
Huckster
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Hornady SST 165 gr 30 cal
Fed & Rem cases
CCI 200 primers
49 gr IMR 4064
Chrono = 2700fps
I dont load for speed, I shoot for accuracy. 5 shot groups in her gun and my rifle will leave a 1 inch hole with no fliers.

Primers show no sign of pressure, perfect dent with no cratering. Last time shooting the outside weather was 25'F. Both guns I load for are Rem 7600 pumps in 30-06. Hope this info helps. I will try factory ammo next in her gun, if I can bring myself to buy a box. I have not bought boxed rifle ammo in well over a decade.
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Old December 1, 2008, 10:50 PM   #5
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I have to caution about mixing brands of brass when developing handloads! One could be spiking pressure while mild in the other brand. But, I would ditch the federal brass ASAP!
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Old December 2, 2008, 03:14 AM   #6
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Much good info already.
I used to own two 7 mm Rem mags.Due to chamber and headspace differences,I bought Rem brass for one,and Win brass for the other.It made them easy to keep separate

Here is a "maybe " idea or 2.If her rifle is quite new,perhaps there is a bit of roughness on the camming surfaces that rotate the bolt.It might take some break-in,or a bit of touch up,or a bit of lube.

You will get better results if you load to each rifle,and use the RCBS mic to set each rifle up for a headspace clearance that works in a Rem pump.
I don't know that you need RCBS small base dies,but they were developed for Rem repeaters.
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Old December 2, 2008, 04:31 AM   #7
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The pump action does not offer much leverage to extract and it sounds like the load your shooting is causing the cases to expand and stick in the chamber. I say the load is too hot for action of that rifle. It maybe otherwise safe to shoot it through the rifle, but why sacrifice reliability?
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Old December 2, 2008, 11:01 AM   #8
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Cases stuck

Two things to look for before going nuts with other solutions:
1. Is the chamber pitted from lack of cleaning, maintenance?
2. Is there residue in the chamber from firing? Look for small dents in the body of the case. (This is common cause for cases sticking in a Remington 742. Make sure the chamber is clean.
3. If none of the above, try other things listed in posts above.
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Old December 2, 2008, 01:52 PM   #9
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Your load is near max pressure according to Hornady. It could be fine in your rifle but not your wife's. Handloads need to be tailored for each rifle.
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Old December 2, 2008, 02:11 PM   #10
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You still didn't tell us if the cases stick lightly or really tightly. That matters. And mixing cases MAY be part of the trouble, especially if your sticky cases are all of one brand.

Your choice of powder is a tad faster than ideal for that bullet weight but not much. It will make small case variations more pronounced than a slower powder, such as 4350 which is about ideal for the .30/165 bullets.

Likely one of two things are happening.

First, the new rifle is still tight and the action bars/extaction mechanism needs wearing in.

Or, you may need a small base sizer for the new rifle. Folks tend to forget that the chamber expands a tad during firing as well as the case. Case springback is usually greater than the steel so we can pull them out ok, at least most of the time. Old cases don't spring back quite as much as new stuff so a small base sizer may be called for. Or new cases!

Let me ask that anyone who has Federal cases they are afraid of, please send them to me because I ain't and can always use good brass.
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Old December 2, 2008, 07:22 PM   #11
Huckster
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Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. I dont know exactly what brand of cases were sticking as she did not keep them after they were extracted. The way she described the cases that stuck they came out after several minutes and many attempts to get them out. This tends to make me believe they came out when the cases cooled.

I think I wll try to work up a handload with 4350 and only use Rem brass to see if it cures the problem.

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Old December 2, 2008, 10:32 PM   #12
Nnobby45
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Quote:
The pump action does not offer much leverage to extract and it sounds like the load your shooting is causing the cases to expand and stick in the chamber. I say the load is too hot for action of that rifle. It maybe otherwise safe to shoot it through the rifle, but why sacrifice reliability?
I disagree , Hommbs. No rifle is "otherwise safe to shoot" with any ammo that sticks in the chamber because of high pressure IMO.

49 gr. 4064 is right up there about max in the Hornady 4th Edition, with their 165 gr. bullets, and slightly exceeds Sierra's listed 165 gr. loads. Suggest coming down 2 grs for her rifle.

I load 150 gr. Sierras and Noslers with 50 Gr. 4064 (about 2750 fps) for excellent, if a little conservative, loads. No deer, antelope, or Calif. Big Horn has been anything but highly impressed so far. And no coyote has mooned me afterwards, either.

M700 with 24" bbl.

We geezers tend to be more conservative about such matters, but yes, there was a time where I had to see if I could turn an '06 into a .300 H&H before eventually discovering that the rifle worked gret when loaded to '06 velocities--and more fun to shoot when loaded to moderate levels.

I'm not saying Huckster is trying to do that, but maybe the load is too hot for the other rifle.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 2, 2008 at 10:51 PM.
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Old December 3, 2008, 03:50 PM   #13
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Nnobby45, what I was trying to say is that a lever action just doesn't offer the leverage capability of a bolt action to extract cases from a chamber. It is possible for safe load to be fired in that rifle that the lever action doesn't have the ability to extract. It isn't a desireable combination obviously.
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Old December 3, 2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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"...a lever action just doesn't offer the leverage capability of a bolt action to extract cases from a chamber. It is possible for safe load to be fired in that rifle that the lever action doesn't have the ability to extract."

Not that it really matters but, as Huckster mentions, the Remington 7600 is a pump, not a lever action.

Even is it's a wearing in problem that will take time to smooth out, I'd suggest reducing those loads by a couple of grains until it does. No point in making it more difficult for the wife than it need be and she is unlikely to be attempting long shots where the velocity matters.
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Old December 3, 2008, 09:49 PM   #15
Nnobby45
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Quote:
Nnobby45, what I was trying to say is that a lever action just doesn't offer the leverage capability of a bolt action to extract cases from a chamber. It is possible for safe load to be fired in that rifle that the lever action doesn't have the ability to extract. It isn't a desireable combination obviously.
I can agree with that--as long as the extraction difficulty isn't caused by excessive pressure.
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nnobby45
It doesn't matter if your chamber is "looser". When the round is fired in any rifle, it fire forms itself to fit the chamber perfectly, then contracts for easy extraction----EXCEPT WHEN PRESSURE IS TOO HIGH.
This is a true statement. I'm not saying there's a pressure problem in the pump action, but I'd like to try to explain why high-pressure cartridges are hard to eject.

As Nnobby45 pointed out the case expands to fill the chamber and then contracts a bit when the pressure is gone. This makes it easy to extract. In over-pressure rounds it does the same thing. It expands to fill the chamber and then contracts a bit after the pressure is gone. They start to stick when the pressure also causes the chamber to swell. The case fills the swollen chamber and then the case and chamber both contract and the case is left clamped in the chamber. Of course the chamber swells and contracts a little bit with every firing and that's okay. The problem comes in to play when the excessive pressure swells the chamber too much. If the chamber is swollen beyond it's elastic limit you get the spectacular (and dangerous) failures.

A stronger action can take more pressure without case sticking than a weaker one. That's why it's often true that a load deemed "safe" in one rifle may well be overpressure in another.
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Old December 4, 2008, 02:58 AM   #17
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Amen to the above!

I just went through that with a Savage 10FP, in .308. I loaded 168 grain MatchKings with a load of BL(C)-2 that was well below the listed maximums.

Well, I found out the hard way that these loads were too hot for MY rifle! I switched to a load of 41.5 of RL15, and found that sweet spot. I was going to chunk a whole bunch of Federal brass-but I have had no other problems with the brass or the rifle.
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Old December 4, 2008, 03:37 AM   #18
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A good friend brought his new rem 300 win mag over to sight in.To make a long story short after beating the bolt open with two different boxes of factory loads, the gun is on it's way back to rem. No they ain't all perfect an it ain't always our fault, even the factory makes mistakes. Alex
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Old December 28, 2010, 11:13 AM   #19
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Stuck Cases

I am shooting a .257 Wearthby. I have started reloading and I currently use RCBS "Rockchucker" press and reloading equipment.

Reloads are coming out of the Speer Bullets manual #14 pg. 296-300. I reloaded: bought Weatherby brass, CCI 250 primers, Reloder 22 [59gr and also 59.5gr] which is at the minimum start charge with Speer 120GR BTSP

Every round that I shot got stuck and was very hard to eject. Please shine some light on this.....
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Old December 28, 2010, 11:15 AM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanas27
I am shooting a .257 Wearthby. I have started reloading and I currently use RCBS "Rockchucker" press and reloading equipment.

Reloads are coming out of the Speer Bullets manual #14 pg. 296-300. I reloaded: bought Weatherby brass, CCI 250 primers, Reloder 22 [59gr and also 59.5gr] which is at the minimum start charge with Speer 120GR BTSP

Every round that I shot got stuck and was very hard to eject. Please shine some light on this.....
You almost certainly have an over pressure situation.

You'll get more attention and more answers if you start your own thread.
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Old December 28, 2010, 11:19 AM   #21
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thank you for your prompt response. I'm new to this so how do I go about starting a new thread?
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Old December 28, 2010, 11:26 AM   #22
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Click this link:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

That will put you at "thread level" of the forum. Near the upper left you will see a button that says "New Thread".
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Old December 28, 2010, 07:23 PM   #23
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Similar prob here w/ Savage 12 VBSS 300WSM.

I became very meticulous about OAL, ensuring to remove all lube, and ,oh, yeah, I sent the rifle back to Savage where they throated the chamber/barrel.

Much better, now.

Mike
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