ID/proof of residence required everywhere?

[DruidKing]

Are there any states that do not require you to provide proof of residence? I'm going to be moving in with family for a while, but for tax purposes I'd rather not officially change my state residence. Is there any state I can go that will sell me whatever rifle I want without me first having to get new IDs made up or have utility bills put in my name? Would a signed lease constitute proof of residence?

[2ndsojourn]

You don't need to be a resident of the state where the purchase is made to buy a long gun. As long as the gun is legal in the state of your residence, the sale is legal. However, since there are different states here, the transfer should go through a FFL. Transfer of a handgun would have to go through a FFL in your state of residence.

[carguychris]

I believe that the answer to your question may be found in the instructions for questions 20a and particularly 20b on the Form 4473. Scroll down to Page 5:

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/down...f-f-4473-1.pdf

Sorry, the PDF won't let me cut and paste the text.

Originally Posted by DruidKing

Is there any state I can go that will sell me whatever rifle I want without me first having to get new IDs made up or have utility bills put in my name? Would a signed lease constitute proof of residence?

Per the instructions for 20b, the "alternate documentation" may consist of a "combination of government-issued documents" consisting of a photo ID from the first state and "another government-issued document (such as a tax document)" from the second state.

The key phrase is government-issued. Utility bills and leases don't normally make the cut unless the issuing organization is a governmental entity- not unheard of, but unusual, at least where I live.

[JimDandy]

As I understand it, it USED to be US law that for a long gun you had to have your official residence in that state or a neighboring state. At some point they changed the federal law, and left it up to the states themselves. I believe most if not all states have changed their laws to allow it in any state, but there may still be a few who haven't. You might want to check into the actual state laws. Maybe with a lawyer from the state(s) in question.

[ChuckS]

Per the instructions for 20b, the "alternate documentation" may consist of a "combination of government-issued documents" consisting of a photo ID from the first state and "another government-issued document (such as a tax document)" from the second state.

The key phrase is government-issued. Utility bills and leases don't normally make the cut unless the issuing organization is a governmental entity- not unheard of, but unusual, at least where I live.

That government-issued requirement is the problem if you don't own real property and get a tax bill.

Is it possible to get a document from the post office showing your new address?

Get a local part time job, even temporarily, and get a W-2 or other work document?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Claiming to be a resident of one state while legally residing in another, for purposes of avoiding taxes owed, is tax fraud.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by JimDandy

As I understand it, it USED to be US law that for a long gun you had to have your official residence in that state or a neighboring state. At some point they changed the federal law, and left it up to the states themselves. I believe most if not all states have changed their laws to allow it in any state, but there may still be a few who haven't.

My understanding is subtly different.

AFAIK the 1968 Gun Control Act (68 GCA) made it illegal by default for an unlicensed individual to purchase a firearm in any other state; however, each state was given the discretion to allow unlicensed residents to purchase long guns (albeit not handguns!) from FFL's in neighboring states, but only if the home state passed a law allowing this. Numerous states passed such laws.

The 1986 Firearm Owner's Protection Act (86 FOPA)- perhaps most widely known for the infamous Hughes amendment- eliminated this provision. IOW federal law now says that, by default, an unlicensed individual may buy a long gun from a FFL in any state; however, the transaction must be lawful in both the originating and destination states, and must take place at the FFL's licensed premises (i.e. no mail order). Handgun transfers from FFL's in other states remain illegal.

Some states still have obsolete neighboring-state long gun purchasing provisions on the books. In most cases, these laws are legal dead weight because they're worded in such a way that they're now meaningless; however, they can still confuse the occasional well-meaning individual who reads them without understanding the underlying federal laws behind them.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.

[FrankenMauser]

Claiming to be a resident of one state while legally residing in another, for purposes of avoiding taxes owed, is tax fraud.

For 95% of people, I completely agree. But, there are exceptions that can depend on the the state and the person's type of employment, place of business, amount of travel required, time spent in the state, etc.

I'm sure DruidKing probably falls into the "why are you talking about this on the internet?"-category; but it's always possible that he's an exception....


---
Before you try to become an unofficial "dual resident", just try using your existing residency documents for the purchase.


If you happen to be a resident of a state that prohibits certain types of firearms (like "Assault Weapons"), and that's what you're after.... don't even try it.

[DruidKing]

As far as the tax issues are concerned, I don't think it is a crime to rent out a PA basement apartment and not officially declare state residency, especially if you already own property in NY. But I'll have to check with a lawyer now to be sure.

I really just want to buy myself a Tavor. I was advised by some gun store owners in NY that purchasing one shouldn't be a problem so long as I don't bring the rifle into NY (which wouldn't happen anyway). But with a NY drivers license I could see where gunshop owners wouldn't sell to me. Do you think my lease would be sufficient evidence of where I am physically residing?

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by DruidKing

I don't think it is a crime to rent out a PA basement apartment and not officially declare state residency, especially if you already own property in NY. But I'll have to check with a lawyer now to be sure... But with a NY drivers license I could see where gunshop owners wouldn't sell [a Tavor] to me. Do you think my lease would be sufficient evidence of where I am physically residing?

I don't mean to be snide, but I believe that I answered this question in Post #3. Open the Form 4473 link and read the instructions for question 20a and 20b.

I am not an attorney, but I have been a FFL (my license has expired, but I digress). My understanding of the instructions is that in order to establish dual residency, an unlicensed person must present government-issued documents establishing residency in BOTH states, although only ONE of the documents has to be a photo ID.

Putting myself in the shoes of a hypothetical PA FFL, I would NOT sell an EBR that clearly violates the NY (un)SAFE Act to a buyer who presented a NY driver's license and could not also present a government-issued document showing residence in PA.

Have you checked with a PA gun shop?

Have you checked whether you are, or would become, eligible for a PA CHL?

I'm not even going to approach the tax question.

[txpossum]

When I moved to Pa from Texas, I kept my Texas license for a couple of years. I still maintain an address in Texas, but had to get a Pa driver's license in order to get a Pa car insurance policy. I was able to buy a rifle or shotgun with no problem, but could not buy a handgun.

I was also irritated to find out that in Pa, when you buy a handgun EVEN FROM A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL the transaction must go through a FFL holder, and paperwork sent to the state.

[Spats McGee]

Originally Posted by DruidKing

Are there any states that do not require you to provide proof of residence? I'm going to be moving in with family for a while, but for tax purposes I'd rather not officially change my state residence. Is there any state I can go that will sell me whatever rifle I want without me first having to get new IDs made up or have utility bills put in my name? Would a signed lease constitute proof of residence?

Is your family nomadic? Because if they're not, then you'll be moving to whatever state some group of family members already lives in, right? If that's the case, why are you asking about "any state?"

If you're shopping for a state in which you can establish a sham residency to avoid your home state's gun laws, you'll get no help here.

[Frank Ettin]

Proof of residency rules were pretty well covered here.