Homemade powder?

[Infidel762]

I have been doing a study on reloading an accurate and reliable 9mm round using all homemade components with the execption of primers for about 4 months now. Many reloaders rely on factory made components, and have went so far as to make their own bullets. I got bored with all that and decided to try making my own powder. The funny thing is, its a special black powder! Now, please read the whole post before you start going nuts on me, and telling me I am crazy and will get myself killed. I assure you this is all being done in a completly safe setting. Safety is obviously the biggest concern here, its black powder after all and this really hasnt been done before, so I am not trying to die or get injured here, nor let anyone else. Powder is the least expensive part of a pieice of ammunition, but primers are a bit out of my ablity to expiriment with. I buy in bulk and I really hate the shipping charges and just the overall price of the powder. I have successfully fired 250rds without any jams, FTE's, misfires etc. I will be putting a video on youtube soon for you guys to enjoy. Before I let the recipe out, I intend to thoroughly review and test these loads to make sure that this is ok for others to try themselves. I will put each set of rounds through different torture tests (water, freeze, low heat, neglect, age, greese/lube etc) and see what if any conditions make it unstable or dangerous to use. They will be in sets on 50 for each part of the test, up to 1000rds for each part. Each set must pass each part of these tests before I start stand by and let people play with what i have designed. The 250 rounds I have fired have been the freeze, and straight from the reloader rounds. 150 straight from the press, and 100 from the freezer. Unforutunatly these will obviously have limitations. Cleaning will likely be needed after every 500-750 rds. 9mm carbines will be used to try these rounds as well (soumi m31 and keltec sub2000) but I dont know for sure how that will turn out. The good thing is that these rounds meter really well. Using federal once fired 9mm brass and tula primers, a cast 124gr lead projectile will go 798fps a bit below average for a standard load. The frozen ones go on average 15fps less for whatever reason...I would think it would be quite a bit more. As a reloader, seeing all that powder being loaded into the case during a reload sets up a flag, but its nessesary and so far safe. The recoil is about the same, and accuracy is no different from the 50rd boxs of federal you get at walmart. If this is successful I will then be able to load 5000rds of 9mm for $120.............that is just awesome. Its like going back in time 20 years.


Anyway, I will keep you guys updated with the progress...if you even care.

All questions are welcome.

Thanks for reading!

[maillemaker]

I'm unclear - are you making smokeless powder or black powder?

Steve

[Infidel762]

Its blackpowder. Using the standard potassium nitrate, sulfur and charcoal with 2 other components added creating higher burn rate.

[bedlamite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

[Dr. Strangelove]

Interesting...

I've loaded 9mm with Pyrodex™; I found it wouldn't function a Ruger P89, though it shot very accurately, it made the gun extremely dirty.

I never tried real black powder, did you get the semi-autos to cycle?

[Infidel762]

Yea it was a sigma 9mm, works great!

[semi_problomatic]

Black powder is extremely corrosive and should not be left in the barrel or chamber. Other than that, freaking awesome!

[jepp2]

If you aren't measuring your "black powder" through a powder measure designed for black powder, you run a very real risk of a deflagration due to the shearing action of the measure.

[WESHOOT2]

....what's the point?

I mean, if your time is totally worthless......


Some things we CAN do don't automatically mean we SHOULD.

[dlb435]

Sounds like a nice project. Making smokeless powder is just too dangerous to make at home. Now all you need is a 45 long Colt six shooter.

[snuffy]

Homemade powder?

I have been doing a study on reloading an accurate and reliable 9mm round using all homemade components with the execption of primers for about 4 months now.

Many reloaders rely on factory made components, and have went so far as to make their own bullets. I got bored with all that and decided to try making my own powder. The funny thing is, its a special black powder!

Now, please read the whole post before you start going nuts on me, and telling me I am crazy and will get myself killed. I assure you this is all being done in a completely safe setting. Safety is obviously the biggest concern here, its black powder after all and this really hasnt been done before, so I am not trying to die or get injured here, nor let anyone else.

Powder is the least expensive part of a piece of ammunition, but primers are a bit out of my ability to experiment with. I buy in bulk and I really hate the shipping charges and just the overall price of the powder. I have successfully fired 250rds without any jams, FTE's, misfires etc.

I will be putting a video on you tube soon for you guys to enjoy.

Before I let the recipe out, I intend to thoroughly review and test these loads to make sure that this is ok for others to try themselves. I will put each set of rounds through different torture tests (water, freeze, low heat, neglect, age, greese/lube etc) and see what if any conditions make it unstable or dangerous to use.

They will be in sets on 50 for each part of the test, up to 1000rds for each part. Each set must pass each part of these tests before I start stand by and let people play with what i have designed.

The 250 rounds I have fired have been the freeze, and straight from the reloader rounds. 150 straight from the press, and 100 from the freezer. Unfortunately these will obviously have limitations. Cleaning will likely be needed after every 500-750 rds.

9mm carbines will be used to try these rounds as well (soumi m31 and keltec sub2000) but I don't know for sure how that will turn out. The good thing is that these rounds meter really well. Using federal once fired 9mm brass and tula primers, a cast 124gr lead projectile will go 798fps a bit below average for a standard load. The frozen ones go on average 15fps less for whatever reason...I would think it would be quite a bit more.

As a reloader, seeing all that powder being loaded into the case during a reload sets up a flag, but its nessesary and so far safe. The recoil is about the same, and accuracy is no different from the 50rd boxs of federal you get at walmart. If this is successful I will then be able to load 5000rds of 9mm for $120.............that is just awesome. Its like going back in time 20 years.


Anyway, I will keep you guys updated with the progress...if you even care.

All questions are welcome.

Thanks for reading!

There, that's much easier to read! A 41 line paragraph is hard to follow with these old eyes.

What you're doing HAS been done before. Okay, maybe not with homemade black powder, but it always resulted in failure. Why? Because of the need to clean the fouling from every surface it gets into. Black powder is corrosive! If you don't get every bit of it off the surfaces it touches, you'll have rust. Also, the fouling builds up so that the function of a semi auto 9mm will suffer, then fail.

The formula for black powder is pretty well known, has been for centuries. Charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter. The rub comes from when the "cake" is granulated. One spark and BOOM!

[t45]

I guess Im not following this. $120 worth of Bullseye would alow you to load 5000 rnds and you get a much cleaner burn and consistancy.

[egor20]

Do what Jim Kirk in Star Trek did in the episode called Arena.

Gunpowder sulfur, carbon, and potassium nitrate and a hollowed-out bamboo reed as the gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjC_I...eature=related
around 8:00 minutes in the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYA51...eature=related

[mikld]

It's unfortunate to see (for me at least) so many attempts to stiffle someone's creativity. Maybe all his time is wasted, but who is to say he's wasting his own time. Think of the things we wouldn't have as reloaders today if someone hadn't thought "I wonder if..." We wouldn't be using metal preservative, or floor wax for bullet lube. Or soft drink cans for gas checks, or forming empty brass into jacketed bullets. What's the point? He can and is doing it. That to me is the point. What if Sam had listened to the guys that told him a handgun should have only one chamber and he was wasting his time? Remember "White Out"? Not created by some high tech. labratory, just a secratery with a blender...

my .02 only

[egor20]

Nice point, but most of us are posting with "tongue firmly planted in cheek" and want to find his after action reports.

Although when was the last time you used "white out", you should have used 3Ms "post it notes", made by mistake.

just saying

[Unclenick]

The trick will be whether or not his two added components reduce the fouling substantially and without rendering the powder impact sensitive. Guns will probably need to be detail cleaned afterward. Submersion cleaning. Otherwise, in my BP revolver the normal commercial BP's fouling will start to jam the cylinder rotation after about 12-18 shots (two or three cylinders full), and I have to apply the saliva method or take the cylinder out clean the pin hole and the cylinder pin to keep it running.

[snuffy]

It's unfortunate to see (for me at least) so many attempts to stiffle someone's creativity. Maybe all his time is wasted, but who is to say he's wasting his own time.

Creativity? Heck, I was just saying "Yer gonna put yer eye out kid". I also said, it's been done before.

As for the Jim Kirk episode, mythbusters tried that with no success. Black powder has to be put together wet, and the ingredients must be finely ground.

There's a lot of black powder substitutes out there that don't foul. 777 is one, it's basic ingredient if sugar!

Unless you're a chemical engineer, I wouldn't go adding things to the basic black powder recipe.

It was Daniel Pawlak that came up with the first successful black powder substitute, pyrodex. It's safer because it is much harder to ignite. However, it still fouls badly and is even MORE corrosive than black. Pawlak did something that others had said was impossible. AND he wasn't even a chemical engineer. I say this to encourage mister infidel, I just hope we don't have to start calling him lefty!

[RichC]

I fully support everyone's right to do what they want in their homes. You want to make powder, go for it. We all take risks to life and limb.

Where I would suggest caution is in publicizing and promoting your formula.

As an individual you have an education, skills and experience. Perhaps you're a chemical engineer or scientist. The rest of us don't have equivalent skills and experiences.

Assuming you're knowledgeable in this field, there are simple things in your process that you take for granted. Me... I don't know squat about chemicals or making gun powder. Even with the most detailed explanations a simple oversight, or assumption, could cause significant harm to others.

Somewhere on the interwebs I read an interesting piece of advice. When you buy gunpowder from a popular manufacturer you're buying decades of experience, testing, education and wisdom. You pay them to make the mistakes. And why would you think you're able to produce a better powder than all of these highly educated, experienced and safety conscious folks?

Me... I'll gladly pay them for their wisdom, but YMMV.

Best,

Rich

[Sid]

Actually, Black Powder and Smokeless Powder can both be made at home safely. Detailed instructions for doing this were developed by chemists at the old Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia. The instructions, with illustrations, are contained in TM - 31-210, Improvised Munitions Handbook, which you can purchase at any gun show. For Black Powder, it lists the following ingredients;

Potassium nitrate
Wood charcoal
Sulfur
Alcohol

For Red and White Powder the ingredients are;

Potassium nitrate
Powdered white sugar
Powdered ferric oxide (rust)

For what it is worth, I haven't tried any of this and don't plan to, but it does make fascinating reading. The book also contains simple directions for making mines and grenades, small arms weapons and ammunition, mortars and rockets, incendiary devices, and fuses, detonators, and delay mechanisms. The materials needed for all these things can be found in any supermarket or big box hardware store.

[ipscchef]

For what it is worth, I think it is great that he is trying this. I realize that he is probably not doing anything that has not been done many times in the past, but I applaud his efforts and hope that he gets his desired results.
I am a professional Chef. Two years at L'Academie and three years of formal apprenticeship afterwards. One of the first things we were taught those many years ago is that in cooking, no matter how creative you are, if the ingredients and tools were available at the time, someone has already done it. That is no reason for you not to try do do it again. In fact, it will give you knowlege that you could not gain by any other means, and as I have found, the experience will not only increase your knowlege, it will increase your "Wisdom and Understanding" of the field you are delving into, whether it be cooking, gunpowder, etc.
Infidel, I am not sure what your eventual goal is,but even so I for one support your efforts, as you have indicated safety is of paramount importance, anytime someone wants to "do it their way" as long as that person does not recklessly endanger himself or others , I applaud their efforts.
Please keep us posted as to your results. And as always, be sure that what you are doing is safe for you and those around you.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND ALL!!

Willy Henderson

[Usertag]

Use a 75:15:10 Ratio on Powder. 75 Being the Potassium Nitrate, 15 Being the Charcoal and 10 Being the Sulfur. Or You could use that same recipe i just said. but instead of sulfur, Use sugar. Believe it or not it burns 1.5 times faster than a Sulfur Mix. or you could try replacing the Sulfur with red Phosphuris. The Possibilities are endless. try experimenting with what i said but safely.

[Adamantium]

....what's the point?

I mean, if your time is totally worthless......


Some things we CAN do don't automatically mean we SHOULD.

I suppose he could better use his time posting 11,000 times on an Internet forum?

I find this interesting and its actually becoming more and more popular in our society. A couple of my co-workers watch reality shows about stuff just like this. People surviving off the land, making a truck run on fire wood, etc. Why are any of you against to concept that everything we use be obtained through commercial means? At the end of the day it is his gun, his safety and it's not like he is coming here saying "How do I do this?".

[Old Woodsmen]

When I was in the eighth grade our spelling book mentioned the three basic ingredients of black powder, I love to tinker with things and I developed the proper precentages of sulfur, saltpeter and charcoal. The only thing I didn't do was to make cake and break it down and screen it (F,FF,FFF and FFFF). Needless to say it was very slow burning in consideration of caked and screened blackpowder which burns extremely fast. My homemade powder worked in a homemade cannon which was wadded with just newspaper. Even in the dumb days of my youth I knew better than place a projectile on top of the powder, I realized that the increased pressure could blow up my cannon or the projectile could potentially kill or do extreme harm. What's good to know is that if ever I couldn't get a hold of powder I could make it and I do have a black powder rifle in which it would work. I never had a bad incident, however I know a person that did and no longer has hair on his head and some of the skin on his head is still tattoed with black powder.

[vladan]

I seems to remember reading somewhere about using a finely shredded old celluloid film (old movie reel) as powder but can't remember where nor if that was rifle, handgun or shotgun... now to think of it, that could be viable solution since celluloid is mainly nitrocellulose - anyone want to verify this one?

[egor20]

I knew I had read that also about celluloid film.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=119065


January 5, 2005, 10:07 PM
Lee Lapin
Moderator


Join Date: March 26, 2004
Location: SE NC
Posts: 9,692

Found this mention on the web (attached at the bottom of this looong ramble), it's the only other description so far when I searched 'paliuntod' and 'richardson guerrilla gun.' This was of course a small footnote in WW2 history, but I always thought it was interesting. Having read a lot on the guerrilla struggle against the occupying Japanese in the second wworld war, I am to a degree familiar with the struggle the guerrilla leadership- a number of them who were Americans- had to go through to provide the very minimum of supplies for their people. One group used to reload rifle cartridges by hand-filing solid brass curtain rods down for bullets, and using chopped up celluloid film for gunpowder. Can't recall how they got primers to work... .