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Old September 5, 2014, 07:48 PM   #1
Hardy
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brass frame c/b revolvers/ safe?

Well Hawg thanx for thinkin I'm rich but I ain't. Had to shut down the store since Cabella built a city next to me--ha.

Anyway I got to thinkin bout brassers. I knew they were not safe for conversion cylinders. Also, a member on this thread came to my store a few yeas ago and we talked about them. He said the brass can become weak and the cylinder pin will start to wobble. I bought 6 from cabellas at the time and 2 did not let the the lever drop in at 6 oclock when fully cocked. An old friend told me that years ago he was handed a "confederate navy" and when he fired it--there he was on his back w/broken parts on his chest and powder burns of course. He was not seriously hurt-thank God- but he won't shoot one again. Also some of our senior members stated that back in the day they were harder -more like bronze. I'm thinking about buying one or 2 but lets talk about the integrity of these new replicas and their safety
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Old September 5, 2014, 10:51 PM   #2
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Originals were made from a bronze alloy called gun metal or red brass for the copper content and were .36 caliber only. Modern repros are made from soft brass. They will hold up for years with light charges. Too many heavy loads will beat them to death. I question the story of a brass frame, even a .44 with a full load coming apart. What happens is the frame gets battered. Starting with the cylinder ratchet embedding itself in the recoil shield and the frame stretches too. It gets worse the more its fired until eventually it has so much end shake it will no longer fire or the frame warps until the cylinder gets in a bind and cant turn. I have a Remington navy that has a very visible imprint of the ratchet in the recoil shield and the cylinder pin is more difficult to remove now. I won't post the pic again because I'm sure everybody has seen it a gazillion times. I don't shoot it any more even tho its still in pretty decent shape but because the loads it takes to keep it from battering itself are so light there's no fun in shooting them.
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Old September 5, 2014, 11:56 PM   #3
OutlawJoseyWales
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Was this a "confederate" navy repro, or a real civil war revolver?

If it was a real "confederate" sidearm, he certainly blew up a whole lot more than just a revolver, that was a sack of money he threw away too.
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Old September 6, 2014, 07:48 AM   #4
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Going by the term Confederate navy I assume it was a modern brass frame .44 since that's what Cabela's calls theirs.
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Old September 6, 2014, 02:20 PM   #5
Hardy
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According to my friend it was an antique and was valuable---but his stories are often exaggerated. Or lies he believes himself LOL. The reason I put confederate navy in quote is because that is what he called the gun a friend of his gave him to shoot. He brought all that up when he saw our guns in the store. He is in a nursing home now suffering from cancer but occasionally he calls me. I will ask him more about that incident and maybe you can pose some questions to ask him I wish I hadn't sold the store but had to. I still have some I might sell but only have about 8 left.

WBH
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Old September 6, 2014, 02:34 PM   #6
Colt46
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Brass frames tend to stretch with time

The heavier you load you gun the quicker it will happen. I really see no practical advantage to owning a modern brass framed revolver.
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Old September 6, 2014, 04:12 PM   #7
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There may not be any practical advantage of modern brass framed Colts, but they sure are pretty!

Treat them like the beautiful ladies they are and they will stay tight and firm.

I have to admit ... I occasionally like to test their morals.
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Old September 6, 2014, 04:49 PM   #8
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I too question the authenticity of a bp pistol blowing up on a guy and laying him out. I've seen cylinders with pieces blown out from shooting smokeless out of em, but nothing like described. Like Hawg says, they last a long time with reasonable loads. Load em heavy, they will eventually fail. Prolly not blow apart on you, never heard of that, nor does it make sense, but stretch so that the tolerances are out of whack, I'll buy that.

By the way, I own probably around 7 brass framed Colt repros, have had them for years, and some are from the early 1970's. they are all shot quite frequently, and none of them have any problems whatsoever.
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Old September 6, 2014, 06:42 PM   #9
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Sounds to me like his gun was loaded with smokeless. That's the only thing that would cause a catastrophic failure like that. All of which leads to the question of firing a black powder gun someone hands you that you didn't load or at least watch being loaded. Never, ever do that.
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Old September 6, 2014, 07:27 PM   #10
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy

Here is my Navy Arms Uberti 'Army 60' that I bought brand spanky new in 1968. Yes, that is what Navy was calling it back then, the 'Army 60'. It cost $40 cash on the barrel head when I borrowed my Dad's car and drove down to the old Navy Arms showroom in Ridgefield NJ.



Unfortunately in those days nobody was warning us about the brass frames not being able to take a lot of punishment. My old brass framed 'Navy' is now a wall hanger after too many 30 grain loads. What tends to happen with these guns is the arbor (the part the cylinder spins around) starts to work its way loose in the frame.

When I drive in the wedge to snug up the barrel, the barrel is pointing up about ten degrees. I could still shoot it, but because the barrel is pointing up it shoots really high.

No I cannot tell you how many rounds went through it before it became a wall hanger, but it was only a few years.

Forty bucks was a lot of cash for me when I was a kid, but I would never buy another brass framed C&B revolver again. When I picked up a couple of Pietta 1860 Armys a few years ago, I was happy to spend the money for the steel frames.
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Old September 7, 2014, 12:06 AM   #11
ZVP
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Good guns.
Won't take as much use as a steel framed revolver.
Brass is self lubricating and they are very smooth to shoot!
Don't load the powder heavy!!! Use light loads and proper fitting Balls.
Will last for years!
I like my '51 Colt clone in .44 cal. I load 18-20 gr of Pyrodex very accurate and easy on the gun.
HTH,
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Old September 7, 2014, 05:23 AM   #12
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I too enjoy my 51 sheriff .44 brasser, using loads around 22-25 grns fffg, and it shoots smooth and nice all day! Thankfully, my first bp pistol was a steel framed 60, so i shot full strength loads out of that before i knew about light and heavy loads. That ole 60 was my hands on learning device.
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Old September 7, 2014, 11:23 PM   #13
SIGSHR
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It's almost like an aluminum frame vs. a steel frame. Remember the Confederates made brass framed revolvers because iron and steel were in such short supply. It was a wartime expedient, nothing more.
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Old September 8, 2014, 04:18 AM   #14
Hawg
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Quote:
because iron and steel were in such short supply
Brass/bronze was in shorter supply than iron. I think it was because it was easier to machine.
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Old September 8, 2014, 10:43 AM   #15
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I believe Hawg is correct. The South was in short supply of just about everything, especially skilled workers who could produce weapons. The South never had the manufacturing base the North did.
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Old September 8, 2014, 03:45 PM   #16
Driftwood Johnson
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Quote:
Brass/bronze was in shorter supply than iron. I think it was because it was easier to machine.
That is the correct answer. Bronze/brass is easier to machine than iron or steel.
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Old September 8, 2014, 08:46 PM   #17
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well i'll tell you. The man I spoke about blowing up that gun--his name is Phil Wood and is in a nursing home---I know now how to get his cell and will question him on that experience as soon as I can.

I used to travel to Statesboro Ga back in the 70's and stopped at an all around store that sold everything just before you got to Augusta. I bought an old brass 36 pistol w/ a can of colgate tooth powder filled w/ bp ,12 caps and about that many balls. The man that owned the store said it was made many years ago in Augusta. It did shoot and you could barely read Gunnison on the frame w a small X---I sold the gun in 1976 for 100. Last year I got severely burned by a butain lighter and had to go the burn center in Augusta. Many hours waiting in the waiting room after re visits I got to talking to a fellow that had some knowledge of old firearms I brought up mine---- He said that was a gunnison-rigby and the plant was destroyed by Sherman and it is now a large shopping complex called the ARSENEL Is,t that interesting. I wish I still had that GUN but I do remember it didn't look like the new repos--It was or appeared to be at the time as strong as the steel. It was OCTAGONAL and had C.S.A stamped on top of the frame
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Old September 8, 2014, 09:01 PM   #18
Hardy
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well i'll tell you. The man I spoke about blowing up that gun--his name is Phil Wood and is in a nursing home---I know now how to get his cell and will question him on that experience as soon as I can.

I used to travel to Statesboro Ga back in the 70's and stopped at an all around store that sold everything just before you got to Augusta. I bought an old brass 36 pistol w/ a can of colgate tooth powder filled w/ bp ,12 caps and about that many balls. The man that owned the store said it was made many years ago in Augusta. It did shoot and you could barely read Gunnison on the frame w a small X---I sold the gun in 1976 for 100. Last year I got severely burned by a butain lighter and had to go the burn center in Augusta. Many hours waiting in the waiting room after re visits I got to talking to a fellow that had some knowledge of old firearms I brought up mine---- He said that was a gunnison-rigby and the plant was destroyed by Sherman and it is now a large shopping complex called the ARSENEL Is,t that interesting. I wish I still had that GUN but I do remember it didn't look like the new repos--It was or appeared to be at the time as strong as the steel. It was OCTAGONAL and had C.S.A stamped on top of the frame
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Old September 10, 2014, 08:37 PM   #19
Hardy
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HEY I talked to the "Confederate Navy" man, Phil. Today. He said he was 19 in 1971 and a friend showed him a gun that his great uncle sold to him for 5000. He took it to an antique dealer that appraised it at 50,000 back then and went out in a field with Phil loaded and greased w/ vasolene and shot six shots at a tree. He then asked Phil if he wanted to shoot it before he tried to sell it. Sure, he said after taking the gun that was reloaded w/ 6 shots and again greased. The gun blew up in his hand. He did not fall down but had severe burns on his hand and small pieces of steel in his face. The cylinder exploded and the barrel was split. He felt bad that he destroyed a valuable weapon but was glad he wasn't hurt any bad. He reiterated that the gun with all loaded shots just blew up.

WBH
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Old September 18, 2014, 07:07 PM   #20
Hardy
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i might stand to be corrected or shot when I said my gun was gunnison/rigby out of Augusta. It was over 40 years ago when I had it and I think it said gunnison on the frame but it might have been another confederate company. What would it have been?
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