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Old February 7, 2015, 01:54 PM   #1
Tony C
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Crimp on a .38 with Hornady Dies

All,

I load primarily plated or lead bullets in my .38 Special reloads. With my Hornady dies, the seating/crimping die shaves some of the plating or lead off the bullet when I am seating with a crimp. If I back off the crimp enough to rid the shavings, then I don't get enough crimp to securely hold the bullet.

Does anyone use a fourth crimping only die for this? Do I disregard the shavings? If you do use a crimping die, which brand, because I cannot find a Hornady branded crimping die for the .38 / .357.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Tony
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Old February 7, 2015, 02:50 PM   #2
Smoke & Recoil
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You may need to bell the case mouth just a tad more or bell it if you
haven't done so. Another thought would be...the seating stem is still
pushing the bullet down while applying the crimp. Many of us crimp
in a separate step, using the Lee Factory Crimp die.

I hope this helps.
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Old February 7, 2015, 02:53 PM   #3
Kframe
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Without pictures, it's hard to guess.
That said, sounds like you may not be belling the case mouths enough and it's shaving as you seat.

But then you mention that without the crimp the bullets are not secure. A properly sized case should have enough neck tension to hold a bullet without a crimp - but if the bullet is loose the recapping/resizing die isn't down enough or too much of a bell was applied with the expander.
Both of those last two problems would not cause shaved bullets, so, I don't have an answer for you.
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Old February 7, 2015, 06:22 PM   #4
Nick_C_S
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I'm with the others: Try a little more flair on the case mouth and/or seat/crimp in separate operations.

FWIW, I have RCBS dies and have never experienced this problem. And I seat/crimp in one operation with many of my load recipes.
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Old February 7, 2015, 09:11 PM   #5
hartcreek
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I use RCBS/ Pacific Dies for .38 Special. Twenty five plus years ago I to was shaving a bit of lead when I seated lead bullets. Giving the cases a bit more bell solved that. As to your other problems it is mostlikely that you are not ajusting your seating/crimping die properly.

I first set the bullet oved a primed case and slibe the bullet inside the bell with my fingers. Then I ajust the die so that i have the correct OAL and no crimp. I back off the seating stem and ajust the die so that I get the proper crimp then I lock the die in place and ajust the bullet seating septh stem down to the top of the seated bullet.

With a second attempt I gently seat and crimp the second try in place and check for the same OAL as the first. If not I ajust accordingly
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Old February 8, 2015, 07:46 AM   #6
Real Gun
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Plated with no crimp groove either requires no roll to the crimp or seating with insertion all the way to the start of the ogive, compensating load for higher pressure from reduced case volume. I have plated wadcutters for 38 and seat them almost flush.

Last edited by Real Gun; February 8, 2015 at 11:33 AM.
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Old February 8, 2015, 07:48 AM   #7
Real Gun
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Redo the die setup, ensuring that there is no crimp before the bullet is fully seated. You could start by backing out your seating adjustment just a grunt and inspect a dummy round using that setting. This assumes you have a bullet puller to salvage components used for such tests.
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Old February 8, 2015, 05:52 PM   #8
Rangerrich99
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^^^

Just had this same exact problem with my new Hornady New Dimension .44 spc/mag dies, except I was also shaving tiny bits of brass off the cases as well.

I went back and re-read the directions and watched several Youtube clips until I found a good one that explained exactly how to set up my dies. If I can find it again, I'll post the link.

Anyway, here's what you need to do to set up your dies correctly.

Take a properly sized case (possibly trimmed, though all my .44 brass is within 3-4 hundredths of each other, so at this point I haven't trimmed a case) put it in the shellholder and raise the ram all the way to the top.

Now thread your bell/expander die into the press and spin it down until it stops. Lower the ram and screw the die down about a quarter turn. Raise the ram with the case back into the die fully and then lower it again. Check the case mouth for your desired expansion. If it's not enough, give the die another eighth/quarter of a turn. Raise and lower the ram again and re-inspect your case. Repeat these steps until you achieve your desired amount of case mouth expansion. I can't remember exactly how many eighths turns I needed to get to the proper amount of expansion; I think at least 6-8.

Now move on the the seater die. Again, raise the ram with the case all the way to the top, THEN thread the seater die into the press until it stops. At this point, the case mouth has come into contact with the crimp ring inside the die. Lower the ram. Give the die about a three/quarter turn back out of the press.

Now put a bullet on top of the case. Raise the ram again. Screw the seater adjustment screw (the small screw on top of the die body) down until you feel it come to some resistance. I just did it until it basically stopped. Lower the ram. Screw the seater adjustment screw down about a full turn, and raise the ram again. The bullet should be barely seated now. Lower the ram. Give the seater adjustment screw another full turn. Re-seat the bullet. Inspect it for proper depth. Repeat these steps until the bullet is seated to the proper depth.

Now to get a proper crimp, BACK the seater adjustment screw out two full turns (we're doing this so that when we try to set the crimp, we're not also seating the bullet any deeper). Raise the ram with the properly seated bullet to the top of the stroke.

Now screw the die body down until it stops. The case has come into contact with the crimp ring again. Lower the ram. Screw the die body down about a quarter turn. Raise and lower the ram again. Check for proper crimp. Repeat these steps until you achieve your desired amount of crimp. Again, I think I went about 5-7 eighth turns before I got to my desired crimp.

Now, spin the locking nut down on the die body. Raise the completed bullet back into the die one last time. And finally, screw down the seater adjustment screw until it stops. You've come into contact with the bullet again. Tighten the seater adjustment screw locking nut.

When I set the dies up this way, I no longer had any shavings of either the plating or the brass.

On paper, it sounds pretty tedious and time-consuming, but once I figured it out, it only took about 5 minutes to set up all my Hornady dies the same way.

Hope that helps, and good luck.
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Old February 8, 2015, 07:35 PM   #9
hartcreek
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Real Gun.....wrong a roll crimp works just fine on a plated bullet as long as it is light.
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