Advice on school..

std7mag · January 1, 2017, 06:41 PM

Long story short.
I'm interested in gunsmithing, more than the stuff I've already done at home.
The gunsmiths in my area are too busy to take someone on to train.
Would doing a school such as Penn Foster get me in some doors, or would I just be throwing my money down the hole??
(from what I understand of it, Penn Foster is a correspondence course).

Thanks for any advice.

Std7mag

mete · January 1, 2017, 08:43 PM

Not familiar with Foster but in any case look around and pick one of those considered amongst the best .Mine was Colorado School of Trades.
For any trade school the more you work the more you'll learn. You should get some good ideas in this forum.

dakota.potts · January 1, 2017, 09:03 PM

I'm a current student at Piedmont Technical College for gunsmithing. There are ups and downs to the program like any other but I think I've learned good things in school (I'd be happy to correspond to questions by PM or link you to some threads where I talk about my school experience).

I'm not personally familiar with the Penn Foster correspondence courses. However, a lot of online and short topical courses do not seem to be well regarded -- my subjective experience from interviews and talking to gunsmiths and those who hire them. Going to a school with a full degree is definitely a benefit for many available jobs. In addition, taking in-depth classes in machining is greatly beneficial to gunsmithing skills and will help you be taken seriously if you want to get a job as a gunsmith.

Very telling is to bring projects that you have worked on. Being able to explain choices you made in design and execution, seeing the level of hand fitting, and feeling the gun you have put together is a big tell as to what kind of ability you have. A proper gunsmithing school will help you with these things.

What are you hoping to achieve and what is feasible for you to do to get there?

std7mag · January 1, 2017, 09:34 PM

I have seen the school in Pittsburgh as being very hands on, however it is a 16 month course, and I'm 50 years old, with a mortgage and other payments to make also. So unfortunately cost and time away from home/work is a big deal.

As for the hands on with projects, I could possibly do that with some of the firearms that I have worked on here at home. Not too many people do chamber reaming in their basement...

Scorch · January 1, 2017, 10:35 PM

Penn Foster will not give you the intensive 1 on 1 contact with instructors or peers to teach you well. I would not even consider hiring an apprentice who learned from a Penn Foster course unless I had seen a lot of his work and found it acceptable.

littlephil · January 2, 2017, 01:26 AM

The Penn Foster course is a good one to take for someone who knows just a little about guns and gunsmithing. I took it mostly for personal use, though most of what I actually learned was history and the like. I did learn a little about smithing practices and whatnot, but I think gunsmithing is really a hands on subject. Don't get me wrong, it's a good course for the money, but I for one have a hard time sitting still long enough to read without actually doing anything. As far it helping you get a job as a smith, I couldn't say one way or another, like I said, I took the course mostly for personal benefit and not really to get a job or open a shop. You do get a diploma once you finish the course, and you can basically finish it as quick as you like, but as someone who took the Penn Foster course, I'd definitely try and go to a hands on school. The school in Pittsburgh is nice, I checked into it several years ago, but between the three year waiting list and $30,000 tuition, I decided against it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

dakota.potts · January 2, 2017, 02:28 AM

Quote:

I have seen the school in Pittsburgh as being very hands on, however it is a 16 month course, and I'm 50 years old, with a mortgage and other payments to make also. So unfortunately cost and time away from home/work is a big deal.

As for the hands on with projects, I could possibly do that with some of the firearms that I have worked on here at home. Not too many people do chamber reaming in their basement...

That's a big reason why your personal goals matter. Do you plan to be hired as a gunsmith somewhere? Or do you just want to learn to make some of your own custom guns?

You may not have a Southbend in a basement, but with threaded and short-chambered barrels commonly available today, it's not beyond the realm of possibility to buy a hand reamer and finish the chamber in your basement with a little bit of equipment.

If you plan to get a job as a gunsmith, it's my opinion that you'll need more formalized hands on training. It may not necessarily need to be in gunsmithing -- some machining classes might be rounded out with some specialized smaller gunsmithing courses for good credentials -- but we can help you a lot better if we know what you're looking for out of a class and what's a feasible option for you.

T. O'Heir · January 2, 2017, 03:11 PM

A correspondence course is money down the sewers. So are the assorted on-line classes. Other than you're basically teaching yourself, you need an example of every firearm the course talks about. Hard to learn how to do a trigger job on a Smith revolver without having one. And nobody will lend you one. Buying 'em gets expensive too.
"...with a mortgage and other payments..." Got enough money to live on for several years? Entry level jobs for anything are few and far between. Even moreso for FNG smithy's. Can you live on minimum wage with no benefits? Typical big box stores don't pay more than that.
"...however it is a 16 month..." Colorado School of Trades(I think it is) is a Community College. Smithy school is 2 years full time. Think in terms of it being a total change of careers and going back to being the FNG at 50. Very difficult thing to do after 40, never mind 50. Been there myself.

std7mag · January 2, 2017, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the input!!

I guess I'll just keep plugging away here in the basement for the time being.

SGW Gunsmith · January 3, 2017, 03:55 PM

I was fortunate enough to get involved with an apprenticeship program when I was 19. Schooling during the day and then working the second shift in the tool room. Hands on learning from more than one instructor, on lathes, mills, surface grinders, shapers, O.D. grinders and then heat-treating parts and welding. All that, and I was getting paid at the same time. 73% of what the journeymen were being paid, and most all of the crappy jobs they didn't want to get involved with.

There is a difference. Parts changers are "armorers". Those who can fabricate new parts, holding fixtures and machine, thread, shape and weld steel for gun parts, are true "gunsmiths". Sometimes there are those who get confused as to which is which.

Over the years, 45+, I've purchased every piece of machinery and peripheral equipment I now have through payment made by doing the above stuff, plus bluing and engine turning parts. So, it not only requires the desire to get involved with true gunsmithing, it also means having a true dedication to achieve the end result. There's no feeling that's better, than to turn an ugly rusted up rifle with a missing buttstock and rotted out bore, back to the grandpa that wanted it restored for his grandson.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

BEFORE:

AFTER:

std7mag · January 3, 2017, 09:05 PM

Beauty work, SGW!!!

That's what I'm talking about getting into. I can assemble rifles in the basement, but it doesn't teach me the art of blueing and such.

Welding/fabrication I can do. Many years turning wrenches on cars, small engines, motorcycles, and time spent as an aircraft mechanic.

Talking with the Mrs. and we have decided that at least I'm going to take the machining course at the local votech. They also have a short CNC programming course.

Once again, thanks everyone for your input. I really do appreciate it!!!

Std7mag

January 1, 2017, 06:41 PM	#1
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Advice on school.. Long story short. I'm interested in gunsmithing, more than the stuff I've already done at home. The gunsmiths in my area are too busy to take someone on to train. Would doing a school such as Penn Foster get me in some doors, or would I just be throwing my money down the hole?? (from what I understand of it, Penn Foster is a correspondence course). Thanks for any advice. Std7mag

January 1, 2017, 08:43 PM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Not familiar with Foster but in any case look around and pick one of those considered amongst the best .Mine was Colorado School of Trades. For any trade school the more you work the more you'll learn. You should get some good ideas in this forum. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 1, 2017, 09:03 PM	#3
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I'm a current student at Piedmont Technical College for gunsmithing. There are ups and downs to the program like any other but I think I've learned good things in school (I'd be happy to correspond to questions by PM or link you to some threads where I talk about my school experience). I'm not personally familiar with the Penn Foster correspondence courses. However, a lot of online and short topical courses do not seem to be well regarded -- my subjective experience from interviews and talking to gunsmiths and those who hire them. Going to a school with a full degree is definitely a benefit for many available jobs. In addition, taking in-depth classes in machining is greatly beneficial to gunsmithing skills and will help you be taken seriously if you want to get a job as a gunsmith. Very telling is to bring projects that you have worked on. Being able to explain choices you made in design and execution, seeing the level of hand fitting, and feeling the gun you have put together is a big tell as to what kind of ability you have. A proper gunsmithing school will help you with these things. What are you hoping to achieve and what is feasible for you to do to get there? __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

January 1, 2017, 10:35 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Penn Foster will not give you the intensive 1 on 1 contact with instructors or peers to teach you well. I would not even consider hiring an apprentice who learned from a Penn Foster course unless I had seen a lot of his work and found it acceptable. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 2, 2017, 03:11 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	A correspondence course is money down the sewers. So are the assorted on-line classes. Other than you're basically teaching yourself, you need an example of every firearm the course talks about. Hard to learn how to do a trigger job on a Smith revolver without having one. And nobody will lend you one. Buying 'em gets expensive too. "...with a mortgage and other payments..." Got enough money to live on for several years? Entry level jobs for anything are few and far between. Even moreso for FNG smithy's. Can you live on minimum wage with no benefits? Typical big box stores don't pay more than that. "...however it is a 16 month..." Colorado School of Trades(I think it is) is a Community College. Smithy school is 2 years full time. Think in terms of it being a total change of careers and going back to being the FNG at 50. Very difficult thing to do after 40, never mind 50. Been there myself. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 1, 2017, 09:34 PM	#4
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I have seen the school in Pittsburgh as being very hands on, however it is a 16 month course, and I'm 50 years old, with a mortgage and other payments to make also. So unfortunately cost and time away from home/work is a big deal. As for the hands on with projects, I could possibly do that with some of the firearms that I have worked on here at home. Not too many people do chamber reaming in their basement...

January 2, 2017, 01:26 AM	#6
littlephil Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2014 Location: Coshocton, Ohio Posts: 231	The Penn Foster course is a good one to take for someone who knows just a little about guns and gunsmithing. I took it mostly for personal use, though most of what I actually learned was history and the like. I did learn a little about smithing practices and whatnot, but I think gunsmithing is really a hands on subject. Don't get me wrong, it's a good course for the money, but I for one have a hard time sitting still long enough to read without actually doing anything. As far it helping you get a job as a smith, I couldn't say one way or another, like I said, I took the course mostly for personal benefit and not really to get a job or open a shop. You do get a diploma once you finish the course, and you can basically finish it as quick as you like, but as someone who took the Penn Foster course, I'd definitely try and go to a hands on school. The school in Pittsburgh is nice, I checked into it several years ago, but between the three year waiting list and $30,000 tuition, I decided against it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

January 2, 2017, 06:29 PM	#9
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Thanks for the input!! I guess I'll just keep plugging away here in the basement for the time being.

January 3, 2017, 03:55 PM	#10
SGW Gunsmith Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2014 Location: Northwest Wisconsin Posts: 285	I was fortunate enough to get involved with an apprenticeship program when I was 19. Schooling during the day and then working the second shift in the tool room. Hands on learning from more than one instructor, on lathes, mills, surface grinders, shapers, O.D. grinders and then heat-treating parts and welding. All that, and I was getting paid at the same time. 73% of what the journeymen were being paid, and most all of the crappy jobs they didn't want to get involved with. There is a difference. Parts changers are "armorers". Those who can fabricate new parts, holding fixtures and machine, thread, shape and weld steel for gun parts, are true "gunsmiths". Sometimes there are those who get confused as to which is which. Over the years, 45+, I've purchased every piece of machinery and peripheral equipment I now have through payment made by doing the above stuff, plus bluing and engine turning parts. So, it not only requires the desire to get involved with true gunsmithing, it also means having a true dedication to achieve the end result. There's no feeling that's better, than to turn an ugly rusted up rifle with a missing buttstock and rotted out bore, back to the grandpa that wanted it restored for his grandson. BEFORE: AFTER: BEFORE: AFTER:

January 3, 2017, 09:05 PM	#11
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Beauty work, SGW!!! That's what I'm talking about getting into. I can assemble rifles in the basement, but it doesn't teach me the art of blueing and such. Welding/fabrication I can do. Many years turning wrenches on cars, small engines, motorcycles, and time spent as an aircraft mechanic. Talking with the Mrs. and we have decided that at least I'm going to take the machining course at the local votech. They also have a short CNC programming course. Once again, thanks everyone for your input. I really do appreciate it!!! Std7mag