January 2, 2009, 01:33 AM | #151 | |||
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January 2, 2009, 02:09 AM | #152 | ||
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January 2, 2009, 03:54 AM | #153 | |
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It's like a condom, I'd rather have one and not need one, then need one and not have one. I don't see how that opinion ignores facts. 1. If you don't carry spares, congratulations, there is better than a 99% chance that you will NOT die in a DGU scenario. 2. If you carry spares, congratulations, there is a better than 99% chance that you will NOT die in a DGU scenario. Furthermore, your extra mags will almost certainly have made no difference in a potential DGU scenario. Basically, if carrying extra magazines is easy for you, and/or you want to do it, by all means do it. Even though your chances of survival in general have BARELY improved, they have improved nonetheless. If carrying magazines is trouble for you, or you just don't want to, that's FINE, your survivability increase of carrying an extra mag would have been negligible anyway. Neither side is right, neither side is wrong. So please, stop arguing about it, unless you are just arguing for fun, in which case, go ahead.
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January 2, 2009, 11:00 AM | #154 | |||
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January 2, 2009, 11:09 AM | #155 | |||||
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Data is provided. We're asked "Where is the data?" I (and others) provide the data again.... Answer: We don't care about your data. I (and others) ask "Where is your data?" What's the reply? We don't need no data, it's opinion! I (and others) say "Go ahead and carry if you want." We're accused of telling people what to do and potentially putting them in danger... "How would you feel..." I don't think we even need to discuss how many times we went over the "Odds vs. Stakes" debate. Shall we go around the circle again or are we done here?
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January 2, 2009, 11:30 AM | #156 | ||||
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How many times will somebody survive the DGU that REQUIRED a reload without one?
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January 2, 2009, 12:58 PM | #157 | ||
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January 2, 2009, 01:02 PM | #158 | |||
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January 2, 2009, 01:07 PM | #159 |
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For CCW, I carry one extra mag. Truthfully, I carry that more in case of a malfunction which would require me to strip the old mag and replace it with a fresh one then any anticipation that I'll need 10 or 15 extra rounds. Malfunctions happen at bad times (Murphy is a B#*ch). If, while in the capacity as an armed citizen, I run into a situation where I need more then two mags, they probably won't help me much anyway as it's apparently a REALLY bad day.
As a LEO, thats a different story. Basic load for me is one in the weapon (Glock 21) and three spares. My SHTF rig ads three more plus long gun ammo |
January 2, 2009, 01:29 PM | #160 | ||
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Having extra ammo=never a bad thing not enough ammo=dead I'd recomend carrying one more round than you need. so if you'll tell me exactly what that number is I'd love to know. Heck since you and peet know exactly how my next gunfight will go down,tell me when and where and I'll stay away. Thanks in advance.
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January 2, 2009, 01:40 PM | #161 |
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One thing I did learn in Statistics 101...if you plan around the odds, Murphy will send a meteor shower your way. No matter what the dice have been rolling, there is ALWAYS a chance that you will roll all snake eyes for the rest of the day. Previous DGU's have absolutely nothing to do with the DGU that is waiting just around the corner with your name on it.
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January 2, 2009, 01:48 PM | #162 | ||
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January 2, 2009, 01:51 PM | #163 |
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I carry 1 spare loaded with the same JHP as my firearm, and I have an extra spare in my car with FMJ.
starshooter231
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January 2, 2009, 03:28 PM | #164 | |
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How many times will you survive a meteor strike? Do you prepare for one? An attack by a pack of wolves? Airplanes crashing into your house? Nuclear Holocaust? They probably all have higher odds than needing a reload. Let's make a new song! (To the beat of "The Farmer in the Dell") It's the stakes and the odds, the stakes and the odds, high ho the dairy-o the stakes AND the odds! I'll ask again, since the question has been ignored at least twice. Can you name a SINGLE incident that the defender in a SD situation was killed or even injured because they did not carry a reload? One single incident? 700,000 DGU per year. Can you name one incident that resulted in a fatality or even injury to the defender due to not having a reload? Surely there would be SOME documentation of such a thing. There are tens of thousands of incidents documented where a reload was NOT necessary.
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January 2, 2009, 04:28 PM | #165 | |||
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why don't the 3 out of 482 that "required" a reload count? how about a case where several guns were emptied http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1 or do you really need sombody to die
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January 2, 2009, 04:55 PM | #166 | |
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If you honesty believe that only situations that resulted in the death of an unarmed person actually count as "required" firearms situations then it is you who does not understand the word. I'm allowing for injuries in my question. If there was not at least an injury, what was the requirement for a reload? So, once again, do you know of a situation where a reload was required, resulting in the death or injury of the defender due to not having a reload? Even in the data provided on the 3 reloads (let's face it, 2 reloads, the lion shot with a .32 doesn't count) there is no evidence that the reloads were actually "required". If you fired until empty and the BG was nowhere to be seen, would you reload? Well, yeah. Is it a "required" reload? NOt unless you have to pull the trigger again. Fact is, if you fired until empty what is needed, 99.99% of the time, is a little trigger control, not a reload. Back on topic, I'm actually comfortable telling people that they don't need to carry a firearm at all if they don't want to do so. Oh my God! What if they get killed!! I'm also comfortable explaining the reasons that they should consider carrying, if they want to hear it. Either way, it's their decision, not mine. I've spent 32 years of my life without a firearm on my person and never needed one. I have one now because I want one. I seriously doubt I'll ever need one, much less a reload. So, if somebody says "Hey, I carry a XYZ handgun. Do you think I need a reload?" I'll say no, I don't think you do because..." If they choose to carry one anyway, great. If they choose not to carry one, that's great too. I'm pretty comfortable knowing that the odds are very high they'll never need the gun at all and if they do need it, they'll probably not need to fire a shot and if they do fire a shot, it will probably be 1 or 2 and if they fire more than 2, they will probably not need a reload. Also, if they do fire a single shot in SD it will be all over the news. See, things like that are EXTREME rarity (read, has never happened here except between small time drug dealers which doesn't count in my book) where I live. If they weren't, I wouldn't live here, but that's a topic from another thread. As for your example above, I'm talking about reloads carried on your person. I have reloads available at home and work because there's no reason to not have them. I'm talking about taking reloads out on the street.
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Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; January 2, 2009 at 05:00 PM. |
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January 2, 2009, 05:19 PM | #167 | |
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Chances are, some of us have avoided gunfights by deciding on one course as opposed to another and never new we avoided the gunfight, car accident, etc. And if Reggy had had the information that he didn't have access to, he could have taken another route. David, someone who ignores other peoples' questions and launches into piece by piece rebuttle of every point, shouldn't be demanding that people answer their questions. However, I'll answer your question anyway. He/she who has the means to recharge one's pistol, without respect to it's initial capacity, is better armed than one armed with the same pistol, who wasn't forethoughtful enough to carry a reload. Is one better armed with a G17 and no reload than one with a J-frame and two speedloaders? Yes, as long as a malfunction isn't encoutered that requires jettising the magazine on the ground and replacing it from the mag pouch. But not as well armed as with carrying a reload. What makes for interesting analysis, is that the reasons some have given for not carrying a reload is time saving convenience. I know people who will toss their J-frame in their coat pocket to head for the store, and never think to carry a reload. Better than nothing, but a couple of speedloaders in the opposite pocket, or a mag. for the Keltec, etc. would be my choice. After I've climbed into my IWB and holstered my pistol, nothing is easier than clipping on my Bladetech mag-flashlight combo (I use the Teklock rather than paddle) and being on my way. Last edited by Nnobby45; January 2, 2009 at 05:58 PM. |
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January 2, 2009, 05:53 PM | #168 | ||||
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January 2, 2009, 06:16 PM | #169 |
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In the summer, I carry a 5 shot revolver. I might or might not have a speed strip of .38's with me.
Closer to winter, I carry an autoloader. I have more clothing to conceal it. I also notice folks' tensions are higher in winter. April historically has been a time of mad clown insanity. VT, Columbine, the American Revolution, many other events. Always in April. I'll carry an extra magazine in April. Then May comes and I get to carry my little 16 ounce snub again. :-) |
January 2, 2009, 06:21 PM | #170 |
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Couldn't you say that you might need 4 extra magazines so why not have them just in case? But why stop at 4 you could be in a situation where you required 5 extra magazines. Why not carry them? But what about if you are attacked in some type of extended situation that lasts for days, say a hostage situation like "Die Hard" mightn't you need more than 5 extra magaizines of ammunition? Better carry 6 extra.
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January 2, 2009, 06:41 PM | #171 | |||||
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January 2, 2009, 06:49 PM | #172 | |
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January 2, 2009, 06:51 PM | #173 | |
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January 2, 2009, 07:00 PM | #174 | |
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January 2, 2009, 07:29 PM | #175 | ||
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