Marlin .444 Downs Charging Grizzly

[8mmRem]

What impresses me is that he was able to get two shoots off, try that with a bolt action.

[TimSr]

What differnce does bullet weight make, if the bullet used is passing all the way through and exiting? In other words, if a 300 gr is passing through and exiting, what advantage do you get with a 405 or 525gr?

[mete]

I don't think it's all that much ,I prefer pass through !
In my 44mag revolver I used the old Speer 225 jhpswc on deer -All were 1 shot kills , only one bullet recovered !! That would have been considered a premium bullet , sad to see it discontinued .
For handgun those heavy bullets in the 44 mag , 300+ bullets ,help accuracy at long range , not too much more.

[jmr40]

What impresses me is that he was able to get two shoots off, try that with a bolt action.

With rifles that generate that much recoil there is zero difference. I've done a little work with a timer. The shorter lever throws and lighter recoil make lever guns in pistol calibers slightly faster for repeat shots. With rifle rounds the lever throw is about twice as far and with the greater recoil involved you can work a bolt gun just as fast. It takes longer to recover from recoil and get back on target than to cycle the action with either.

[Snyper]

What differnce does bullet weight make, if the bullet used is passing all the way through and exiting? In other words, if a 300 gr is passing through and exiting, what advantage do you get with a 405 or 525gr?

A heavier bullet could make all the difference if hitting a big bone on the way in.

We don't know what exactly those bullets hit, and I'm not sure I'd get all excited over it's performance at 10 yds

The man used what he had and got lucky, but if he had a choice I bet he'd want a bigger gun next time

It was a very big boar over 7ft and the co,s estimated it,s weight at 550-600lbs.

That's about the size of an NC Black Bear

[hartcreek]

You guys are missing the point. It only works when the bear runs away from you. If it keeps coming you are toast no matter what you are using at that close a range bceuase it does not matter if the bear has a beatinghear or working lungs because it has enough adrenalin for the minute it is gpoing to take to chomp you once.

[Barnacle Brad]

^^^Teehee…


Yep! Glad the dead on his feet bear changed course, else how could we have such an elightening conversation? Just think, it could have been "Man with sharp stick staves off bear attack, according to So Easy a Caveman Could Do It News". I jest but don't tend to take "one off" kills too seriously especially if

no doubt in our minds

personal opinion at the behest of the media is the basis for the argument.

Correct...I have not had any grizzly charge encounters with any caliber rifle to validate my opinion, but I did have an Uncle that one time...

[FrankenMauser]

That's about the size of an NC Black Bear

Did you smoke your breakfast today?

Black bears rarely exceed 350 lbs, and it is nearly unheard of for one to exceed 400 lbs. Yes, it does happen, and 500+ lb bears have been verified, but the AVERAGE adult black bear is under 250 lbs.

[Blindstitch]

I would like to see some pictures of these big black bears. At best I might have seen one up to 400 pounds in Northern Michigan. And we had lots of bears.

[eastbank]

here in pa. several blacks over 500lbs are shot every year, not the norm but they can grow that big. i have a picture of one thats over 500 lbs. eastbank.

[Snyper]

Did you smoke your breakfast today?

Black bears rarely exceed 350 lbs, and it is nearly unheard of for one to exceed 400 lbs. Yes, it does happen, and 500+ lb bears have been verified, but the AVERAGE adult black bear is under 250 lbs.

Our (world) record is 880 lbs (killed about 10 miles from my house), and 500-600 lbs is not unusual at all in Eastern NC

NC Holds Black Bear Record - Xtreme Recoil
xtremerecoil.net/nc-holds-black-bear-record
Apr 4 2013. NC Holds Black Bear Record. The world record weight for an American black bear is 880 pounds. This was the recorded weight of a 10.75 year-old male bear ...

This 647 lb bear was just our 17th largest

http://gothunts.com/north-carolina-r...ear-confirmed/

It took five years to do it, but the state of North Carolina finally confirmed Billy Walkowiak’s 2004 black bear as the 17th largest North Carolina record black bear ever taken in NC.

Billy’s North Carolina record black bear had an official weight of 647 pounds and was estimated to be nine years, nine months old. The record bruin was shot on a dog hunt in Hyde County, NC, a hotbed for big bears in the state.

Note that this is 54 over 500 lbs just one season:

During the 2003-2004 season, North Carolina produced 48 bears in excess of 500 pounds at the coast but only six bears weighing more than 500 pounds in the mountains.

[Snyper]

I would like to see some pictures of these big black bears. At best I might have seen one up to 400 pounds in Northern Michigan. And we had lots of bears.

This isn't the biggest one, but it's #3 right now, as far as I know:

The second all time heaviest bear in North Carolina was taken this week and most likely the heaviest black bear any hunter in North America will take this year. This bear tipped the scales (certified) at 760 lbs making it the largest bear any hunter has taken while hunting with Conman’s Guide Service in Creswell North Carolina.

http://www.skinnymoose.com/moosedrop...orth-carolina/

Here's the (I think) current #2:

http://www.northcarolinasportsman.co...ls.php?id=3104
Washington County hunters chase down 780-pound black bear, second-largest ever taken in North Carolina Close-range shot finally finishes off huge boar

http://www.northcarolinasportsman.co...ls.php?id=3104

[reynolds357]

I have always found it amusing that the .444 merits as a defensive rifle in Bear country are even questioned. Most people will not argue the fact that a 44 Mag, 454 Casul, or 480 Ruger are good handguns to defend against Browns. Yet, the same people will say the 444 Marlin, which can do anything the above 3 can do, is not a good defensive rifle.
I guess there are just some who will feel undergunned with anything other than a .458 Lott or 460 WBY, but to each his own.

On a side note, I live pretty close to NC (N.E. Ga). There are some monster Blacks across the border. We have some decent ones here, but the monsters are in the Tar Heel state.

[Ruger45LC]

I think most of the criticism against the 444 is targeted specifically to using the lighter weight jacketed .44 Mag bullets which like any bullet, have a design limit and the 444 can most certainly exceed that which leads to poor penetration. The same bullet in a .44 mag would hold together better and penetrate better despite slower velocity because it's being utilized correctly. As other have pointed out, use the right bullet for the job and no question the 444 is a potent choice.

[Kosh75287]

Did you smoke your breakfast today?

LOL @ FrankenMauser. Just don't give him any grief about his spelling, FRank.

I don't care how far off the bear was, or what kinda rifle I might have, by the time bear got to ME, I woulda smelled WAY too bad for the bear to be interested in tangling with me!

[FrankenMauser]

Our (world) record is 880 lbs (killed about 10 miles from my house), and 500-600 lbs is not unusual at all in Eastern NC

Okay....


My family once owned a 1969 Subaru 360. Today, it would be worth about $1.3 million.
...But that doesn't mean that all of the cars that we have owned are worth the same.

Outlying examples do not establish a mean.


---
For the record, that Subaru was given to us by a family member that paid $50 for it, just so he could drive from California to Utah in about 1985. None of us (including the person that gave it to us) knew that it had a tiny little TWO-STROKE engine. So, after we filled it up with regular gas the first time, and the engine seized, we drug it out into the desert and used it as a target.
It was about 10 years later that I discovered just how rare that car was, especially in the US, and just how valuable US import models, even in poor condition, were to Japanese collectors....

[FrankenMauser]

I think most of the criticism against the 444 is targeted specifically to using the lighter weight jacketed .44 Mag bullets which like any bullet, have a design limit and the 444 can most certainly exceed that which leads to poor penetration. The same bullet in a .44 mag would hold together better and penetrate better despite slower velocity because it's being utilized correctly. As other have pointed out, use the right bullet for the job and no question the 444 is a potent choice.

Yep.
And most people that think .444 Marlin is a crappy cartridge, because of the pistol bullet handicap, don't have a clue that most factory ammo is now using bullets designed specifically for .444 Marlin, not .44 Mag.

And the few crappy bullets that are still around in factory ammo (like the Hornady 265 FTX and Remington 240 SP) are despised by most experienced .444 owners.

[Snyper]

Okay....

My family once owned a 1969 Subaru 360. Today, it would be worth about $1.3 million.
...But that doesn't mean that all of the cars that we have owned are worth the same.

Outlying examples do not establish a mean.

LOL

I showed you nearly 55 bears from just one season that weighed over 500 lbs, and now you're talking about cars.

We grow huge bears here whether you were aware of it or not, and a 500 lb bear here is not, to use your words, "nearly unheard of"

We even had a 6th grader who killed a 450 lb SOW bear.
http://www.northcarolinasportsman.co...ls.php?id=1630

“The first time he checked the weight, the scales said 445 pounds,” Paul said. “He bounced the bear one time, and the scales said 450 pounds. When he weighed her on a second set of scales and she still weighed 450 pounds, he said it was a new state record for a female bear.”

We have pigs that weigh that much too.:
http://myfox8.com/2014/03/17/another...orth-carolina/

If the 800 lb alligators don't eat them first:
http://www.wral.com/800-pound-gator-...unty/13675775/

[Art Eatman]

Enough for one go-round...