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Old July 10, 2008, 12:44 PM   #26
grayryder
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Personal and Home Defense

In reference to 410 Bore weapons over that of large gauges for personal and home defense.. I use a Bond Arms 45/410 Derringer for my primary line of defense weapon. I have the weapon loaded with Sellier & Bellot 3" 00 Buck, 5. 3/16" lead balls, in each discharge. When aimed for the vital area, chest area between shoulder level and the naval , within 25' you will stop any size of a human. Also, in considering that 95% of all lethal defense needs occur with 7' to 25' the 410 Derringer, with 00 buck, will serve the purpose of intended use. For my outside of the home, on porperty use, I use a 12 gauge, Hi-Standard 12 gauge, Riot 18-7 Pump Action Shotgun with Remington 00 Buck ammunition. In my opinion, both calibers with 00 buck will do the job for the intended purpose of needed use. With the Derringer, there is a small jumping recoil, but nothing that a fightened determined female could not handle. The only thing that I added to the over the counter purchase of the Derringer was to purchase the extra long grips.

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Last edited by grayryder; July 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM. Reason: add-on of female user.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:02 PM   #27
dabigguns357
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shotguns

I found myself with this same question about a month ago and here was my conclusion for my wife and son both.My wife had a hard time shooting the 20 gauge and so did my 9 year old son.With this in mind i went and bought a mossberg 410 pump with a modified barrel in youth model.This is how my family handles our h/d needs.My primary weapon of choice is a mossberg 12 gauge pump with a rifled slug barrel with a backup s&w 686 357.If the intruder gets past me then my wife will be waiting behind a locked door with her 410 filled with slugs and a snubbie 357 for back up..I have 3 nightvision cameras outside and 3 nightvision cameras inside.The first inside camera is above my bedroom door facing at an angle down,and the second is above the door facing into the kitchen at the back of the house and the 3rd is facing up the stairs to the kids room(no sneaking in or out for our sons)I know i sound a bit paranoid but if there is a bump in the night i want to see it.The cameras help us see whats on the other side of the door before we shoot.We also have 2-way radios for my wife and i,and in the kids room we have baby monitors that get turned on every night.Again i know this sounds crazy but as the old saying goes,tis better to have and not need than to need and not have.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:57 PM   #28
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Paranoid?

What one calls paranoid, another will call WELL-PREPARED!

I say the latter is true! And it is true! You just care enough to be well-prepared! Nothing wrong with that!
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Old July 10, 2008, 09:07 PM   #29
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Not to be Cocky, but

I repeat rule #1, IN A GUNFIGHT HAVE A GUN, WITHIN REASONABLE LIMITS ANY GUN WILL DO!
.410 with proper ammo makes my list.
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Old July 10, 2008, 09:58 PM   #30
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Of course. A .410 shotgun slug can't be worse than a .357 Magnum, right? And a .357 Magnum revolver wouldn't be scoffed at when said to be used against a criminal!

As others have said: Go shoot the different sized shotguns, and go with the one she shoots most EFFECTIVELY with... as in decently quick follow-up shots! Practice, practice, PRACTICE! Which is what I'm going to do, myself! I'm a shotgun newb, as well. I just got my first the other day, a 12 ga. Mossberg 500. I have 100 target shells for practice, and just ordered Brenneke 3" Magnum slugs for when I run into a bear (one has been recently spotted in my area, about a month ago), and some 3" Federal 000 copper plated buckshot, as well. I want to test these out. If I can handle 'em, I'll buy more. If not, I'll look for lighter loads I can handle more so. Trial and error.
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Old July 10, 2008, 10:06 PM   #31
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I know a guy that was shot in the belly with a 12 gauge loaded with birdshot from across a small room. He killed the guy that shot him and he's still alive. He underwent a lot of surgery but he made it. A .410 is better than nothing but I'd look for something else and stay away from birdshot.
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Old July 10, 2008, 10:38 PM   #32
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Yeah. I'd assume birdshot isn't great against human criminals, because there's just not enough penetration to hit vitals. Birdshot was meant for tiny birds, not humans. You need something with decent penetration, which I think 000 buckshot would be, with a powerful enough load behind it. I think the 12 ga. 3" Mag copper plated 000 will do for now; that's what I ordered, and we'll see how good I shoot with it in a couple weeks.

But, follow-up shot practice is very important! Shot placement is important if you don't have good penetration. If that birdshot was in the guys face, I'm betting he would've dropped quick, but nothing is ever guaranteed, of course. At least he'd have been blinded if/when the shot hit his eyes. Your friend a criminal?

If you're not worried about "overpenetration," then a nice hollowpoint slug would be nice, at least in theory, since I've not tried it yet.

I've yet to shoot the practice birdshot shells I bought! That'll probably be done tomorrow. Maybe the day after.
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Old July 10, 2008, 11:03 PM   #33
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Worthless

A 410 gauge shotgun would be worthless against human targets. Now, if a bunch of evil moths should attack you might win. But I would not take a 410 gauge to a gun fight.
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:22 PM   #34
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A .410 is okay for home defense. I know a 16 year old boy who killed a fairly large northern white-tail buck with a single shot of # 7 1/2's while hunting cottontails. It dropped on the spot.

The shot loads are light but for home defense the ranges are close. Use a reasonably large shot size, #4-#6, to enhance penetration. It will do as much damage at close range as many common handgun cartridges. One can also use slugs if necessary. Anyone well hit with either load is unlikely to be interested in pursuing the matter.
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Old July 17, 2008, 03:45 PM   #35
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http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/50359.jpg
The HS .410 was designed with women in mind. It gives them a controllable platform to fire a decent man stopper with out the recoil of a larger shotgun. You don't want to walk in on Ms.Mossberg and hers I betcha...
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Old July 17, 2008, 10:16 PM   #36
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.410 for HD

"a .410 you have to use buck with a low pellet count, or slugs. IN both cases you are loosing the big advantage of a defensive shotgun- high hit probabilty. A hit with either will incapacitate a bad guy, but you have to hit him first. I think a 20 bore is a far far better choice."
I agree with the "you have to hit him first" idea. I respectfully disagree that a .410 buckshot load has a lower hit probability than another gauge. Shot out of the same choke, the patterns all will be the same size at the same distance and moving at essentially the same velocity.
Shoot at an intruder down an 18ft long hallway with any full choked SG and the pattern that reaches him will be six inches wide (about 12" with Cyl). The 12ga. pattern will have more shot in it.
All these guns have to aimed if used indoors, especially with a fully choked SG; the pattern is small enough that it can go right by the target if not aimed. Assuming more pattern than they get is one of the big mistakes that people make when shooting in close.
Pete
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Old July 18, 2008, 09:39 AM   #37
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A 410 would be fine for home defense. I doubt that any of your rooms are longer than 30 feet so that would probably be the max distance you would ever shoot. Try this: Shoot a cardboard target, 5 gal. can, piece of sheet rock etc. (from 30 feet or under) with an everyday variety of 410 shot shell as you would buy from Wal Mart or any store. You definitely don't need slugs. Then, from the damage done on the target make up your mind if the person you were shooting at would be disabled. I doubt there is a man alive that would keep coming. I had a 410 as my first gun and although they don't reach very far, they do reach 30 feet and very effectively.
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Old July 18, 2008, 03:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
I thought 410s were pretty small, the shotgun equivalent of a .22.
What are you smoking?
A .410 with slugs or buckshot would work, but if I were in your situation I'd go with the 20 gauge. Or you could have your wife practice a 12 gauge with low recoil buckshot/slugs and to lessen the recoil more you could put a vertical grip forend on it.
Take care
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Old July 18, 2008, 03:47 PM   #39
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I have used an Remington 870 .410 loaded with 00 and 000 buck for hunting deer, and have used it quite extensively and with great results. Sellier & Belliot makes 2 3/4" 00 buck and 000 buck in 3". Patterns about 6" at 25 yards, where my 12 gauge might be 16" at the same range. Hell, one of the most popular pistols right now is the .45/.410 Judge. If it wasnt an effective stopper, then why is it so popular?
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Old July 18, 2008, 09:32 PM   #40
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BAGTIC, Thats a real nice thing that that 16 year old boy did. Break the law much??? You must have been with him if you quoted that it dropped on the spot, How else would you have known that for sure. I think he needs to have his hunting license yanked and pay a few fines. It might make him think about it a little harder if theres a next time(hopefully not!) I hope I never catch him doing that in my neck of the woods, I wont be so nice. I love it when people admit to breaking the law in public and hopefully he gets caught when possibly a LEO shows up on the doorstep asking questions.
DID EVERYONE MISS THAT OR AM I LOOSING IT ???
And #4 & 6 shot will not enhance penetration. Ask the squirrels my daughter shoots with hers. No pellets exit the other side of a squirrel and their not the biggest animal. Im not stupid when it comes to guns and I would NOT use a .410 for HD when theres alot better options. Even a 20ga. in youth size is fine with #3 buck but definatly not a .410 with anything smaller than 00 buck or a slug. all your going to do with birdshot in a .410 is make the crackhead angry. A 12ga. with 3" magnum loads of #4 shot is another story.
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Old July 18, 2008, 09:46 PM   #41
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While I agree with the first part of your post, have you ever shot anything at 10 feet with a .410? Shooting a squirrel in a tree is not quite the same thing. As a rule of thumb (and physics), the heavier the shot, the more penetration, at the same velocity. a .410 with #4 shot at 10 feet would be quite deadly.
The crackhead might be angry, but he probably will no longer be a danger to anyone.
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Old July 18, 2008, 10:08 PM   #42
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Many years ago there was actually a .410 shotgun specifically labeled as "The Home Defender." The .410 used to be the shotgun a number of people used primarily for home defense. In those years the .410 did have a very, very small following of people who used it and liked it. Most people though opted for the 12 guage shotguns in either a double barrel mode or pump version. I wouldn't want to go against somebody armed with a .410 shotgun but my preference is still the pump 12 guage for me.
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Old July 18, 2008, 10:36 PM   #43
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Bill, I agree that its deadly but disagreed with using birdshot instead of buckshot or slugs. He stated to use #4 or 6 to enhance penetration. I think buckshot will penetrate better than #4 birdshot. And yes, I have shot things alot closer than that with a .410 gauge. Read my reply totaly.
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Old July 19, 2008, 12:34 AM   #44
hogdogs
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Rifleman, The *HS* of the .410HS is for "Home Security"... I think a woman with 6 rounds of .410 is more dangerous to the bad guy than one afraid of shooting the 2nd round of 12ga...
Brent
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Old July 19, 2008, 11:11 AM   #45
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MIKENBARB,

Get off your self righteous high horse.

What he did was wrong, he knew it. After he shot the deer he reported it to his dad who went to the site and sure enough the evidence confirmed what the boy had said and done. They reported it to the widlife department who came investigated and took the deer away to be salvaged for food.

The boy did something stupid and impulsive. Who among us has not sometime in our life? He could have concealed the facts so no one would ever have known but he didn't. Instead he, on his own, acknowledged his error and reported it. How many would not have?

He did lose his hunting license but was not fined.
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Old July 19, 2008, 12:02 PM   #46
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The HS deontes high strength not home security. I must admit that is the first time I saw somebody call them home security.
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Old July 19, 2008, 12:38 PM   #47
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Oletymer, You may want to put a "I think" or "possibly" in your statement when you know not what ye speak of...
I must admit I have never known the HOME SECURITY model by any other name since reading of it back in the late '80s or early '90s... NEVER HAS A 500 BEEN LABELED A HIGH STRENGTH!!! Don't guess... look it up as I (a rabid Mossberg fan) do before purporting to know what I am talking about! This is straight from the Mossberg website!
SPECIAL PURPOSE SHOTGUN - 500® hs410™ HOME SECURITY
6 SHOT 50359 BEAD SIGHT, SPREADER CHOKE $385.00 MORE

http://www.mossberg.com/products/pri...ection=service
scroll a bit past half way if you think I am just pullin' stuff outta my butt!
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Old July 19, 2008, 06:03 PM   #48
roy reali
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Try Again

There Is No Such Thing As A 410 Gauge Shotgun!!!!!!
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Old July 19, 2008, 06:48 PM   #49
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Ok, so it's a .410 BORE....geeze nobody calls it that, take a valium
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Old July 19, 2008, 06:54 PM   #50
hogdogs
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I very rarely hear .410bore... Just .410... "I think I will use the .410"... Since a gauge is a comparative measurement and a .410 is a dimensional measure it just don't fit... It is like calling a 350 cubic inch engine a 350liter... But I was wonderin' when someone would jump the 410gauge mis-statement.
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