BCM gunfighter charging handle defective out the box? Not my week I guess...

[dgludwig]

Yes. I meant that rhetorically. I wasn't trying to make you look foolish.

Cheaperrooter, don't be so quick to take offense! I appreciated Bartholomew Robert's intended rhetorical import intuitively. If you don't look for trouble, you won't find it.

[DubC-Hicks]

Cheaperrooter, it wasn't HiBC that rudely posted on the PSA thread, that would be me. I also posted earlier on in this thread, trying to help. Also BTW, rudely private messaging people after the last thread wasn't appreciated.

At this point, it seems that the BCM handle might actually be the culprit. I'm sure they'd let you exchange one or get a refund. FWIW, I like my Raptor a lot.

[Dragline45]

It's pretty clear at this point that the charging handle has nothing to do with it...

[Cheaperrooter]

Oh! Sorry, my bad then Bartholomew. Thought you were trying to take a rip at me

[Cheaperrooter]

. wasn't HiBC that rudely posted on the PSA thread, that would be me. I also posted earlier on in this thread, trying to help. Also BTW, rudely private messaging people after the last thread wasn't appreciated.

I never said he rudely posted on the PSA thread. See, right there, your saying things and putting words in my mouth that i never said and that's very frustrating.

I wish you guys would start actually reading whats said and it wouldn't be a problem.

I said obviously he didn't like my PSA thread, based upon his exact comments about bashing a gun manufacture and there's only one gun manufacturer that I have bashed and it was obviously PSA.

I never said he posted anything so whee did you get that information? I know who you are and I know about your post but what does that have to do with the situation?

And come on, I'm not stupid, his remarks were extremely, I mean way out there and were very very very rude so don't even try to act like what he said was not rude. There was nothing nice about this post whatsoever. He was taking a dig at me and he came right out and said he was taking a dig at me.

Stop putting words in my mouth and factually state what it is I say

[Cheaperrooter]

. It's pretty clear at this point that the charging handle has nothing to do with it...

I'm assuming that's another joke?

[Cheaperrooter]

Also BTW, rudely private messaging people after the last thread wasn't appreciated.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about? I didn't rudely private message "people" I private messages one person who was being rude to me, HIBE and I told him to take it off this thread and post in the p.m.

But comments like yours do NOT belong on a thread and DO belong in a p.m. The comment you just made should have been in a p.m.

When you have something to say about a person, say it in a private message. The only reason you would want to say it on the thread is to gain pats on the back....

[Cheaperrooter]

Why is that I get along with everybody here, except the same two or three i have a problem with? What does that tell you? That tells you the same two or three bad apples are still out there and won't stay off my thread. If you don't like what I saying, don't read it and stay away.

Everyone else has no problems communicating with me and I respond very nicely. But when I'm responding very rudely? You can bet your bottom dollar it's to a post where somebody is being a jerk saying things disrespectful, not nice, and basically shouldn't be said. And when that happens? Yes, what do you know, I bite back when someone bites me

[Cheaperrooter]

Cheaperrooter, don't be so quick to take offense! I appreciated Bartholomew Robert's intended rhetorical import intuitively. If you don't look for trouble, you won't find it.

Yeah, well, that's because it came right on the heels of HIB saying something very nasty to me, so yes, I disagree that it was intuitive, unless you know that person. You all know that I'm new here so I obviously nothing is going to be intuitive when it comes to an individuals statement, till you learn that that persons personality.

Meanwell, not one person, not one single person, has said anything to HIBE about his ridiculous, nasty, and downright disrespectful post. Wonder why that is?

Again, I'm not stupid people. When someone comes out and makes an extreme disrespectful remark to me, and then everyone starts writing me about how I'm being too touchy, I think it's obvious what's going on...

It's really really simple in my world. Be nice. Be respectful. Don't be rude. And if you can't control yourself and feel the need to try and make someone look like an idiot, or to call him nasty names, I'm going to let you know you how I feel about that. And when that happens? Don't come knocking on my door talking about how I was being rude

[marine6680]

Egos run amuck?


I have found this forum to be generally friendly and helpful. Most people here are that way...

Generally if you don't look for offense, you won't find any. As I don't see many people act rude or an arse from the get go, though some are less tolerant of receiving it, and can get a little ill if provoked.

Generally until a member gets some time and recognition in, we assume they are new to shooting or the subject at hand in the thread.

It's a common thing for new members to proclaim knowledge but then say things that belie that...

Rarely do members activity act the arse to other members, often they simply want to educate and correct misinformation.

It's not meant as an insult in and of itself.

So the general rule of thumb here, is if you think someone is being an arse, they probably are not intending to be. And if they are being so unintentionally, pointing it out without also being rude, usually illicits an apology.



As far as the problem... I personally can't see a properly installed charging handle causing feeding and extraction issues... Not if it is in spec...

Improperly installed or general user error in operating the rifle yes.

If out of spec it may cause the bolt to not fully go into battery, it's also possible it's another out of spec part that is not working well with the new CH.


That being said, if you have swapped the part and had the issue go away, or follow the part to other rifles, then it's reasonable to assume it's at fault.

BCM will work with you on getting a replacement.

I have several of their charging handles, and never had an issue. I have their regular version on many rifles and their AR10 version for my 308...

[dgludwig]

Meanwell, not one person, not one single person, has said anything to HIBE about his ridiculous, nasty, and downright disrespectful post. Wonder why that is?

Well, I will. It was uncalled for and disrespectful.

[rickyrick]

People here are helpful, even after a bad run-in with other members.

Most of the more knowledgeable people don't like false information getting spread, and they will correct you for it

There are real professionals here: gun writers, LEO instructors, gun smiths, professional hunters, professional soldiers and more. I fall into the average joe category, and I've been wrong, I'm glad they gave me the information, even if it was in a manner that I didn't think was tactful.

I've quit this forum twice because I got upset, but after I think about the situation, I realize that I overreacted or misunderstood.

Most gun malfunctions can be solved here, especially with pictures.

[dgludwig]

It's a common thing for new members to proclaim knowledge but then say things that belie that...

Rarely do members activity act the arse to other members, often they simply want to educate and correct misinformation.

I don't see it quite that way. In terms of "counting posts", being "new" doesn't mean a person doesn't know as much about guns and related topics as the next fellow and being "old" doesn't make anyone an expert. Also, it would seem to me that people should make an extra effort to help make new members feel more welcome.

I try not to assume anything until proven otherwise. I'm not always successful in that endeavor.

[marine6680]

I got lost in all the rhetoric, but anyone and everyone being rude needs to backup and hit reset.

Start over with a sense of calm, and move forward on helping those who need it.

[dgludwig]

I "get lost in the rhetoric" all the time, marine6680, and your advice for everyone to "backup and hit reset" is good advice. Life is way too short for having big attitudes over small things.

[FrankenMauser]

I agree.

Chill pill.

Reset.

Re-approach.



There are members here that don't like my opinion, and a few members whose opinion I don't care for; but I try to approach every discussion with an open mind and contribute where ever I feel my experience or opinion is valid (much to the chagrin of those that don't want to read it ).


If it absolutely comes down to it, there is an ignore list available, that will hide posts from the chosen members unless you specifically click to read the post. There is one active member that resides on my ignore list, due to a period of constant, repeated, ridiculous attacks on other members, bad advice, and a bad attitude.

[marine6680]

I don't see it quite that way. In terms of "counting posts", being "new" doesn't mean a person doesn't know as much about guns and related topics as the next fellow and being "old" doesn't make anyone an expert. Also, it would seem to me that people should make an extra effort to help make new members feel more welcome

It's more of an in general statement than a reflection of reality in all cases.

There are new members who come in with a lot of knowledge, but it is usually evident very quickly that they have the knowledge... based on how they talk about and approach subjects.

Others can be very knowledgeable in one type of firearm, but not others... So they can need help with areas outside their knowledge base.

Very often, new members come here with little knowledge, they are seeking help and knowledge...

Without prior experience with a member, if you make the assumption they have knowledge, you can approach replays to a subject in a manner that can cause confusion for someone who has limited knowledge on the subject.

It's best to work from an assumption of general lack of knowledge, until you get a better handle on the person... Explaining potential problems and solutions in an easy to understand manner for someone with low understanding of the basic mechanics of their firearm.

If they already know the basics, then in addition to providing helpful solutions, you merely stated some things they already know or in a simpler manner than was needed for them to understand.

If they do not have a lot of knowledge, then you avoid confusion.


It's also not uncommon for new members to show up, thinking they know a lot, but what they learned was from unreliable sources or pop culture.

You get people who think that because a video game labeled a particular firearm or optic or accessory as being better than another, that such things reflect reality... Though this problem seems more an issue over on AR15com than here.

Some of these people do not like being corrected either.


I usually just try to be respectful, and express things as clearly as I can and at an appropriate comprehension level for the person at hand.

[dgludwig]

It's best to work from an assumption of general lack of knowledge, until you get a better handle on the person...

I guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I try to not make any assumptions until I have reason to believe otherwise. I have a fairly deep, well-rounded knowledge of firearms but I don't feel that my involvement in the various gun forums means that I have a mission to contribute, inform, correct, advise or in any other way play the expert. I like to think that I've been a help to some but, over the years, I've learned a lot more than I've "taught".

[rickyrick]

My problem is that I have a good understanding of the topic, but I'm not so great at explaining things, most often, I rush and don't proof read sometimes.

Bottom line, I found out long ago that lots of my firearm assumptions were wrong.

[michaeldarnold]

Might I suggest pictures of the offending unit in failure mode? A picture talks for itself quite well.

[Nanuk]

Have you cycled it without a mag inserted?

Lock the bolt back, let it go with the bolt release, both with and without a mag.

I am an armorer and have never seen a charging handle cause a problem. Since it is new it may be out of spec. Did the original work? A double feed condition is indicative of a bad magazine. If the gun never worked maybe it was assembled wrong and / or something is out of spec.

[marine6680]

It's not so much a direct assumption, than it is simply starting from a position of simplicity and clarity.

So maybe I failed in explaining what I meant.


As you learn the person, you can adjust how you go about explaining something.

So until I know how knowledgeable another person is, I stick to simple language as best I can, and explain things as simply as I can. I avoid confusion as best as possible by avoiding technical jargon or insider knowledge, without explaining or defining those terms.

I try not to be or seem condescending at the same time, as that is not the goal... Effective communication, no matter the level of subject knowledge of the other party, is the goal.

I do work under the idea that they have a basic knowledge of how to disassemble, clean and lube the firearm... And know the names of the basic parts they must handle during this process. So I don't get overly simplistic unless the other person asks for more fundamental explanation.

A recent example is a post by a newer member who was having issues with their rifle not extracting spent casings...

During our efforts to provide potential solutions, it was mentioned that a heavier buffer may be a quick solution.

This member came back and explained that they had no clue what a buffer was or where it was located in the rifle.

And I believe most people posting answered to the original question where trying to explain things clearly and simply... But the new member did not even have the base level knowledge to know what the buffer is in an AR...

I've never thought to explain that simple aspect, as such seemed a bit much and too simplistic... to the point of insulting.

Just shows that even the simplest things can not be taken for granted as known.

[DPris]

I've got three BCM chargers here, used on two Colts & one Stag.
No problems whatever.

You might try calling BCM & discussing with them.
They could possibly know more about their product than we do.
Denis

[Cheaperrooter]

. You might try calling BCM & discussing with them.

That was already discussed a page back, already wrote them a letter and sent them pictures

[Cheaperrooter]

OK. I warn you now this will be a VERY long post. If you don't want to read it all, I understand. But for anyone who wants to get a better understanding of what's wrong with this forum here, as well as every other forum in America, then please, read on.

Now I can already tell you that 20% of the people out there will not fully read this, they will only glance at it, failing to really comprehend what it is that I am saying, because they are too busy urgently trying to concentrate on the things that they want to attack me with, and will be crafting a response in their head as they selectively cherry pick sentences to use against me. Why? For no other reason at all other than I am a newbie and a newbie equals a novice and a novice has nothing to offer anyone.

I hope not but it won't shock me in the least. But this is the very first time that I've written such a thing on a forum and usually just go to sleep at night with this knowledge in my head. Today I share!

First, I for one will join the reset crowd! I will always join the reset crowd. I will always apologize if I took something wrong, like I did to Bartholomew, which I had actually written before I read the post telling me not to be so touchy


But to be honest it didn't help that Bartholomew's first post rubbed me the wrong way, so I took this as a possible second opportunity for him to be more strong or let's say that he had upped his level of being disrespectful another notch.

Poor Bartholomew may not have even understood that he said something to rub me wrong. And herein lies the problem with words! The sad part is I share a lot of the same traits with Bartholomew as I am very facetious and sarcastic but in a humorous way that is mislabeled way too often because people don't know me.

Now that I knew he was being, as I went back and reread I actually got quite a chuckle!!!

If he doesn't mind I will use him as an example. His first post on this thread was telling me that I am not accurately describing the problem and as such how are you all supposed to diagnose it? And added, was same thing I did on my first post no yet...

As you read below you'll see how I will address that in more depth, but to touch upon it lightly, it's not the best way to tell somebody something. There were many more diplomatic ways to say it other then, in my view, which is you are not articulate, you're being a monkey, and you're not explaining yourself whatsoever and this is the same crap you pulled on your first post.

Now like it or not, that's how I read that sentence in my mind. I didn't say anything and I didn't address it because others before him and after him we're already into the diagnostic stage in which of course I had the thought, why is it everyone else understood but not him? I let it pass. But unfortunately I had labeled him as somebody trying to start something. Like I said, now that I know him, that probably was not his intent at all but I'm giving you an example that's going to lead to a bigger issue down below.

Now myself? I'm just a super nice guy. I am very careful how I say things because I know that words can lead to arguments, break up of families, heck even murder. Words are way too easily misconstrued, so I go way out of my way to make sure that there's no ambiguity. Plus like I say I'm just a really nice guy anyway. I'm always nice and I always respect people initially. Whether they have earned it or not. That's why when somebody says something to me that's disrespectful, I automatically know it's not me.

I would've said this many different ways. I'll give a few examples. I'm sorry, I'm not really following you, can you explain that a different way? Or I would love to help you solve this problem, but right now I'm not exactly understanding what's taking place, can you expound on it a little bit more?

When something is said like that, it's absolutely, completely impossible for it to be misinterpreted it in any shape form or fashion. Knowing that's how I would word something, when it's written to me differently like Bartholomew did, I know that I would only be capable of writing it like that, if in fact I was trying to be negative. Do you understand my logic? I'm simply explaining who I am and what I think is wrong and how so many fights start needlessly.

We have become a world of words and not talk anymore. Words will never be able to express facial expressions, whether one is smiling or frowning, laughing or yelling. They will never reflect tone of voice. This is why words are dangerous and why everyone needs to go out of their way to say things that are less offensive. because of the misinterpretation of words.

Now add in that other then misinterpretation, people just have more of a tendency to say things that they would never dream of saying in person. They hide behind their words. They become tougher with their words. Some. Not all. But yes some. They reveal more honestly how they feel about the situation because they are hiding behind the words, so now you have to really be triple careful how you write because the person reading that doesn't have a clue and so how can he know?

Here's another great example with Dubchicks. He just PM me and said he was referring to the rude private message as the one I sent him. You want a classic example of how words can screw things up? My p.m. to him was meant in a humorous way, it was meant to shake his hand and say let's be friends, let's smile and let's make up my friend. I'm ready to reset. I was shocked when he replied on this thread to me in a negative way because I thought we had made up. And all this time he was actually harboring more resentment because of the p.m. I sent him and I'm thinking that we are friends again because of the p.m. I sent him.

Now honestly it's very hard to reset, because I have found most people on here to be very nice and respectful to me, so there's not a whole lot of resetting that needs to be done, so we're really only talking about a couple of people who just seem to go out of their way for one reason or another, to insist on not liking me since I have wrote my first post. And most of the others who have been nice I am sure harbor deep down inside a bit of resentment about a guy like me. I am very unique because I don't do with the normal new person does. Ill explain that below.

I can already tell that I very much like Dgludwig. And no, it's not because he was the first one to say he thought I was disrespected and I know that's what everyone will think. It's not. Didn't hurt though..LOL

It's because of the things he said most recently, just now. And I'm in total agreement with him. 100%. And I was getting ready to bring up the exact same points. I like him because we think alike. We process alike. We possess the same logic.

Here are his points as well as mine.

Whatever happened to welcoming new members? Saying welcome aboard, thank you for joining us, thank you for your first post, whatever happened to niceties like that?

Whatever happened to making them feel warm and welcome, versus banished to a corner and not allowed to talk until he raises his hand, letting it be known that his views are not welcome, his experience and knowledge are not needed, that he is there to shut up and listen, because of that little tiny number under his name that indicates it's not high enough for him to have earned the right to speak.

They have disappeared that's what. And instead, it has turned into the following scenario, another point that Gludwig brought up, but I'm not sure everyone fully understood.

Gludwig said that because he possesses a lot of knowledge and experience doesn't give him the right to think that he is anything special. The right to Interject his opinion, to correct others, in other words guess what everyone? He is actually here to participate and chat and have fun!!! What a novel concept...

And I will tell you right now, he has just brought to light the core of what is wrong with every single forum across this country, he has just exposed the inherent problem that has creeped its way into the shadows of all threads.

And there is a lesson to be learned to what he just said, and if more others thought like he did or applied what he is saying to their own life, you would see much more ACTIVE participation, MANY more people getting involved and you would witness all kinds of new and interesting things taking place.

Instead? This is what you have. Websites that have 12 million gazillion members, but yet the same "30 or so" king gorillas that walk around with billions of posts under their name, intimidating titles like "super duper senior member" beating their chest, ready to pounce down upon any individual who dare question their authority, challenge their knowledge, and in fact have anything that even resembles an opinion of their own, because all of these posts have went to their head.

They now have a self bloated ego, an inflated concept of themselves, and they'll start to believe that they're invincible and its their way or the highway, in fact it's the ONLY way.

They are no longer on websites to truly help and assist, but to "lecture" others about the proper way to do things! Why do you think websites have so many tons of members, but only a fraction that post?

If they're just going to read that they can work on the outside, the only reason that they would want to join us is so they can post and ask questions. Why do you think they don't? Because they're afraid. Because they joined up and then read it and didn't like the fact of how the other people who had some of the same questions were treated and and didn't want to be embarrassed themselves.

Unlike me, most people have a deep yearning to be part of something, to be part of the in crowd, they have a need to be in a group. The thought of being banned scares the crap out of them. And that is what all of the gorillas are pretty much used to, young, naïve novice individuals seeking to gain wisdom from the great wizard of Oz.

This is also the reason why I have been banned from eight out of 10 places I have joined in the last six months. I am not one of those "kind" I become a member and immediately start doing something very silly, I actually start talking to others... I actually start posting. I actually start to create threads. And boy oh boy do the king gorillas of Oz take offense to someone like me.

Who is this earthling who dare become a member, and start acting like he knows something. You have no posts under your little name and that automatically means you have no life, no experiences, you have nothing at all that you could possibly share with any of us kings.

It's crazy thought people. New member does not equal born yesterday. This was also the third point that Gludwig brought up and by this point I immediately knew I was going to be friends with this man. Whether he likes it or not

I am resented almost immediately and everything that's happened to me since I've joined is the exact same thing that has happened to me on every other forum I have joined because god forbid, I dare to ask something, dare to come forth out of the woodwork without fear of intimidation, reprisals, or being made fun of. Things like that don't bother me. I'm not afraid to take an active participation in a discussion and voice my opinion but boy that is so hated and frowned upon even though this is the exactly gathering to such a place to do so.
The sad part is the very second that someone sees newbie, automatically his opinion is not valued. What a shame.

Why is a newbie entering into a conversation with us Kings?

I have a wealth of knowledge that I could share with others, but it is vastly ignored simply because I don't have enough posts.. sad. I am made fun of because I don't have an intimate relationship with my AR 15, and because I don't open up a bottle wine and bring it roses on Valentine's Day. I'm supposed to be someone who knows that weapon inside and out and can rip it apart in 10 seconds and repair it in Rambo like style in the middle of the woods with a twig.

Instead about those respecting my honesty which I am revealing from day one by freely admitting that I do not know my weapon inside and out and that I have a working knowledge of it only, thus giving others an inside clue that I'm an honorable person, one that be trusted and will always be honest, already I had several members make a little smart remarks about how I should learn to know my weapon better.

And Because I can't perform a triple bypass on it at every given moment, from that point forward, nothing I say is taken serious, none of my opinions are valid, and no one wants to hear anything I have to say.

My goodness people, don't you think that is extremely shallow??? I would say knowing your weapon to that degree, is one of the least important things that you'll need to know when crap hits the fan. That's not my specialty. My specialty is I am an expert prepper, extremely proficient with my weapon in shooting it, and have a realistic concept and approach as to how to deal the possibilities of an end times scenario.

I am extremely well-versed in all types of night vision, and own what I think is the absolute perfect set up and you know what? I couldn't rip apart my thermal imager and fix it in the woods any faster than I could my rifle, that doesn't make me any less of a loser than anyone else because I can't.

I wanted to be a gunsmith I would've went to school. There's a great misconception that everyone out there in assault rifle land should learn their weapon to the same degree as a gunsmith and it's just absurd to me. And worse if they don't?

Now everything else that comes out of their mouth from that point forward, doesn't matter if it's about seeing a movie, or how to open up a can of soup, it will be ignored because this is the guy thats remembered as "that newbie who doesn't have a clue why his charging handle is causing five other weapons to jam"

I forget who, but one guy on this thread actually called me a troll???!! Absolutely ridiculous. Just ridiculous. I think people don't understand what a troll is anymore, because they use the word so out of context I can only be led to believe they lack it's definition.

Gludwig basically has said everything that I said above but in a very condensed version and he is on to something everybody. He's the kind a guy that more people should listen to, because he knows how to communicate on a forum.

In short, to sum it up?

Newbie doesn't mean anything and stop thinking theres an association between newbie and information that could be useful and vital to a website.

Be very careful what you write and how you write it, because a lot of people are coming off with a superior type attitude and that doesn't beg for participation on a website.

Stop letting all of this go to your head that you're the only expert in the world. Be more open and listen to what others have to say, with a closed mind you'll never learn anything new.