What Kind Of 9mm Ammo?

RED_beard92 · February 20, 2017, 09:05 PM

One of my gun buddy friends comes up to me and goes " Hey man, I got this perfect 9mm ammo for you to use as self defense." I respond no thanks man, I'm good. I don't need any of your hand loads.

So he pulls out this new looking box and says to me that they dont make this stuff anymore. It is that insane. He tells me he bought it from a Police Dept that was selling old stock. (The company I work for deals in that kind of stuff) So naturally I'm intrigued and he gives me a box. It is made by International. The box says Frangible GREEN ELITE SUPER DUTY L.E. ONLY 9mm 75gr HP +P+

I have done some internet searches but I haven't been able to turn up any results for this grain weight. I have fired some of it and it is pretty smoking hot. But i am curious to see if ANYONE on this forum has any knowledge about this stuff????

m&p45acp10+1 · February 20, 2017, 09:29 PM

Sounds like the old Glasser safety slugs to me. The older ones were extra hot to make them work.

jonnyc · February 20, 2017, 10:32 PM

Found some info via Google:

https://www.google.com/search?site=&...k1.hGfIOta9s6Y

RED_beard92 · February 20, 2017, 10:45 PM

Johhnyc, the info that you found about the ammo is the same that I have seen. It is the 100 grain 9mm and the 75 grain 380. Also neither of these are the +P+ like I have.

DPI7800 · February 20, 2017, 11:02 PM

When I see

Quote:

.Frangible GREEN ELITE SUPER DUTY L.E. ONLY

That tells me it was specifically designed for indoor use where lead is prohibited and was not a carry/duty issue ammunition. Many agencies have been switching to lead free ammo (green) for indoors, due to the high expense to run and maintain a EPA approved lead scrubbing ventilation system for the indoor range. Also the Frangible part also indicates that it will disintegrate into small partials upon impact to mild steel to also cu cost for agencies building indoor ranges.

RED_beard92 · February 20, 2017, 11:57 PM

I agree with it being frangible I would assume that it would be range ammo. However with it being +P+ wouldnt that cause excessive wear for just plinking stuff? Also it says Super Duty right on it?

**Mike Irwin** · February 21, 2017, 11:12 AM

I sincerely doubt that this was intended to be range use only.

The old practice of using one kind of ammo for carry and another (often with a completely different ballistic profile) for range practice is, thankfully, largely a thing of the past.

Given that this ammo is so different from the typical type of 9mm ammo used for police use, trying to use it as range ammo, and then issuing something that may way nearly twice as much, would, I think, be very problematic from the standpoint it would feel/shoot nothing like the issue round.

Every ammo type I've seen from this company indicates that it's intended for duty use.

As to whether I'd use them for self defense or not...

That would be not.

Not without a LOT of testing for reliability, wounding capability, and most of all, penetration.

I personally would shoot these up for personal enjoyment, but I'd stick with a proven 9mm round for defensive purposes.

Brit · February 21, 2017, 12:51 PM

Intended for safe shooting steel targets.

But there is a huge down side to frangible 9mm ammo!

In shooting various 9mm ammo at an old OPP Issue vest, hung on a target carrier at 7 yards. It stopped every round, including NATO Hard Ball.

I went out to my Jeep, and brought in a box of frangible some Company Rep. had given me.

International Cartridge Corporation. Correction, not this ammo used!

Non-Toxic Frangible Ammunition.

9mm Luger 100gr HP Made in USA.

It looks to be almost the same color as the brass case, with a small hole in the nose, and deep hole.

Back to the point, went right through the vest! With a cloud of little bits floating in the air, like tiny feathers. No warning on the box to this effect!
Mild enough recoil, fired at steel from the same 7 yds. 1/4 inch spot, no bits/pieces, anywhere.

Below, what is written on the box, a black box.

International Cartridge Corporation

2273 Route 310. Reynoldsville, PA 15851

1-877-422-5332

Special Duty Sinter Fire Bullet Components

Just spent a few minutes catting to the Company, nice Guy.

This ammo is not made any more, but ammo similar is. But is sold to Police and Military only. Very safe fired into steel.

But the bottom line, it was manufactured after the incident I described! So it was somebody's Frangible, but not theirs!

T. O'Heir · February 21, 2017, 02:16 PM

"...bought it from a Police Dept..." Highly unlikely.
I'm seeing International Cartridge 100 grain 9mm Green Elite. 75 grains in .380 only. No +P+ either. Calling stuff LE Only is an old marketing thing.

ShootistPRS · February 21, 2017, 06:36 PM

+P+ ammo has no specific pressure for it. It can be under the SAAMI +P pressure limits or over them. The designation was used by police departments for a while but no one knew what pressures it was loaded to. The only study I saw said it was slightly under the SAAMI +P maximum pressures but also stated that it could vary dramatically.
The Seattle police tried frangible ammo but went back to HP to prevent ricochets. Then they switched to semi auto.

February 20, 2017, 09:05 PM	#1
RED_beard92 Member Join Date: August 21, 2013 Location: The Appalachian Mountains Posts: 66	What Kind Of 9mm Ammo? One of my gun buddy friends comes up to me and goes " Hey man, I got this perfect 9mm ammo for you to use as self defense." I respond no thanks man, I'm good. I don't need any of your hand loads. So he pulls out this new looking box and says to me that they dont make this stuff anymore. It is that insane. He tells me he bought it from a Police Dept that was selling old stock. (The company I work for deals in that kind of stuff) So naturally I'm intrigued and he gives me a box. It is made by International. The box says Frangible GREEN ELITE SUPER DUTY L.E. ONLY 9mm 75gr HP +P+ I have done some internet searches but I haven't been able to turn up any results for this grain weight. I have fired some of it and it is pretty smoking hot. But i am curious to see if ANYONE on this forum has any knowledge about this stuff???? __________________ Nothing Exceeds Like Excess

February 20, 2017, 09:29 PM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Sounds like the old Glasser safety slugs to me. The older ones were extra hot to make them work. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 20, 2017, 10:32 PM	#3
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Found some info via Google: https://www.google.com/search?site=&...k1.hGfIOta9s6Y __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

February 20, 2017, 10:45 PM	#4
RED_beard92 Member Join Date: August 21, 2013 Location: The Appalachian Mountains Posts: 66	Johhnyc, the info that you found about the ammo is the same that I have seen. It is the 100 grain 9mm and the 75 grain 380. Also neither of these are the +P+ like I have. __________________ Nothing Exceeds Like Excess

February 20, 2017, 11:57 PM	#6
RED_beard92 Member Join Date: August 21, 2013 Location: The Appalachian Mountains Posts: 66	I agree with it being frangible I would assume that it would be range ammo. However with it being +P+ wouldnt that cause excessive wear for just plinking stuff? Also it says Super Duty right on it? __________________ Nothing Exceeds Like Excess

February 21, 2017, 11:12 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I sincerely doubt that this was intended to be range use only. The old practice of using one kind of ammo for carry and another (often with a completely different ballistic profile) for range practice is, thankfully, largely a thing of the past. Given that this ammo is so different from the typical type of 9mm ammo used for police use, trying to use it as range ammo, and then issuing something that may way nearly twice as much, would, I think, be very problematic from the standpoint it would feel/shoot nothing like the issue round. Every ammo type I've seen from this company indicates that it's intended for duty use. As to whether I'd use them for self defense or not... That would be not. Not without a LOT of testing for reliability, wounding capability, and most of all, penetration. I personally would shoot these up for personal enjoyment, but I'd stick with a proven 9mm round for defensive purposes. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 21, 2017, 12:51 PM	#8
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Intended for safe shooting steel targets. But there is a huge down side to frangible 9mm ammo! In shooting various 9mm ammo at an old OPP Issue vest, hung on a target carrier at 7 yards. It stopped every round, including NATO Hard Ball. I went out to my Jeep, and brought in a box of frangible some Company Rep. had given me. International Cartridge Corporation. Correction, not this ammo used! Non-Toxic Frangible Ammunition. 9mm Luger 100gr HP Made in USA. It looks to be almost the same color as the brass case, with a small hole in the nose, and deep hole. Back to the point, went right through the vest! With a cloud of little bits floating in the air, like tiny feathers. No warning on the box to this effect! Mild enough recoil, fired at steel from the same 7 yds. 1/4 inch spot, no bits/pieces, anywhere. Below, what is written on the box, a black box. International Cartridge Corporation 2273 Route 310. Reynoldsville, PA 15851 1-877-422-5332 Special Duty Sinter Fire Bullet Components Just spent a few minutes catting to the Company, nice Guy. This ammo is not made any more, but ammo similar is. But is sold to Police and Military only. Very safe fired into steel. But the bottom line, it was manufactured after the incident I described! So it was somebody's Frangible, but not theirs!

February 21, 2017, 02:16 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...bought it from a Police Dept..." Highly unlikely. I'm seeing International Cartridge 100 grain 9mm Green Elite. 75 grains in .380 only. No +P+ either. Calling stuff LE Only is an old marketing thing. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 21, 2017, 06:36 PM	#10
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	+P+ ammo has no specific pressure for it. It can be under the SAAMI +P pressure limits or over them. The designation was used by police departments for a while but no one knew what pressures it was loaded to. The only study I saw said it was slightly under the SAAMI +P maximum pressures but also stated that it could vary dramatically. The Seattle police tried frangible ammo but went back to HP to prevent ricochets. Then they switched to semi auto.