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Old March 26, 2020, 09:36 AM   #1
stephensackro
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Wet tumbling case mouths

I just started wet tumbling last fall and really like it, gets the cases really shinny and clean. I have noticed one thing. The case mouths seem to get peened slightly from the cases hitting each other. I really don't think this is a problem but just wondering if anyone else is having the same result. I use SS media, lemi shine, dawn and water. For 400 cases or so, I usually tumble for 1 1/2 hours, maybe too long? Your thoughts?

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Old March 26, 2020, 09:58 AM   #2
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peened case mouths are just one of the trade offs. 1.5 hours is not overly long in my opinion. I usually do a very light chamfer after wet pin cleaning unless I will be using an M type die.
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Old March 26, 2020, 10:17 AM   #3
Bart B.
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Sierra tumbles their bullets in rubber lined tubs like concrete mixers full of wood chips. Their bullets get all the sizing lanolin scrubbed off and highly polished. Their heels have tiny peened dents that have no effect in accuracy tests.

Same as new case mouths.

The sharp edge inside case mouths caused by deburring tools is a problem because it often scrapes off bullet copper unbalancing bullets. Pass deburred case mouths on then off a bronze bore brush in an electric drill to round that edge to not peel off copper strips from bullets.

Last edited by Bart B.; March 26, 2020 at 10:25 AM.
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Old March 26, 2020, 04:40 PM   #4
jpx2rk
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You can try adjusting the number of cases to SS pins on your next few runs to see if it improves or worsens. Too many cases in the tub, the cases hit each other, too few and the pins work on the brass too much.
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Old March 27, 2020, 04:22 PM   #5
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You might try smaller stainless steel pins. They come in different sizes.

By chance are you using the harbor freight plastic rock tumbler or an actual bullet tumbler like a lyman or a franklin? My canister on my lyman is rubber lined and I don't see the damage you're seeing on my pistol brass no matter the load volume. I usually go for 2 hours on indoor range brass and 3 hours on outdoor range brass.
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Old March 27, 2020, 06:04 PM   #6
oley55
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Not to get into a pizzing contest with anyone, but the peening I see is from brass cases falling/banging into other brass cases.

The rubber lined Thumblers or other copy cat rubber lined wet tumblers can not prevent the cases from falling onto/into each other. The rubber is in there to prevent the drum from wearing out and noise reduction.

As to size of the pins, I find it hard to imagine how those incredibly tiny lightweight pins suspended in water could peen much of anything. Simply not enough velocity is generated inside the drum. If the drum were spinning fast enough to generate the required velocities, centrifugal forces would hold everything against the walls of the drum and no cleaning (or peening) would occur.

jp2rk is most definitely on to something by suggesting an adjustment to the ratio of pins to brass to minimize peening. But then those pins ain't exactly cheap. I run up to 15 pounds of pins, but then my tumbler is way larger than most home use wet tumblers at 8" X 23".
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Old March 27, 2020, 09:03 PM   #7
higgite
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Or you could just tumble it in a dry media tumbler.
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Old March 28, 2020, 11:09 AM   #8
stephensackro
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Wow, that is a big tumbler. I agree and think the penning is being done by the cases banging against each other. I might try putting more water in since now I'm only filling the canister up to about 2 inches from the top. By filling the water to the top, it would give less air space for the shells to move fast verses in water? Really don't think this is a problem just wanted to see if others had noticed it.
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Old March 28, 2020, 03:19 PM   #9
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WOW - oley 55 - don't think I've ever seen a wet tumbling rig that size before. My point in the rubber lining was impact cushion. If Stephen is using a canister with no lining, the impact of the case collisions during tumbling would be more severe. Simple transfer of energy. Stephen - as to your water amount - that sounds right to me. What's your formula? Are you adding a drop of Dawn, or are you doing hot water and a teaspoon of lemishine? Or something else? A drop of dawn - no more - and you'll get some foam to take up most of that air-space which might buffer impacts some - it's an idea to try.
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Old March 28, 2020, 06:11 PM   #10
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yea, it's a beast. takes two men and a boy to set in place when fully loaded with brass, pins, n water.

But I have a smaller 5" tube for smaller loads. Been thinking about making a much shorter 8" tube because the 5" tube turns a little fast. I drive it with an old Kenmore washer motor and have it wired for two speeds but I'm still geared a bit fast for the 5 incher. 8" = 36/53 RPMs, 5" = 47/72 RPMs.

I use a good bit more than a drop or two of dawn. If I don't have some suds left after tumbling I don't feel like I cut all the grime. Trial and error...
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Old March 29, 2020, 06:44 AM   #11
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One of the challenges I have when I do a full load of pistol brass in my Lyman is getting it cleared, clean & dry before solution residue re-tarnishes / redeposits on the brass. With the size tumbler oley55 is showing, I'd say it'd be damned near impossible to finish a solid cleaning & drying cycle before the residue sets back up on some of your brass. Do you have an industrial size sorting & drying scheme as well I wonder?
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Old March 29, 2020, 09:54 AM   #12
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Not to get too far off in the weeds, I think I'll PM you my process.

If appropriate I guess we could cut n paste my here, but I already feel like we (I) have hi-jacket this thread.
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Old March 30, 2020, 09:25 AM   #13
stephensackro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Lion View Post
WOW - oley 55 - don't think I've ever seen a wet tumbling rig that size before. My point in the rubber lining was impact cushion. If Stephen is using a canister with no lining, the impact of the case collisions during tumbling would be more severe. Simple transfer of energy. Stephen - as to your water amount - that sounds right to me. What's your formula? Are you adding a drop of Dawn, or are you doing hot water and a teaspoon of lemishine? Or something else? A drop of dawn - no more - and you'll get some foam to take up most of that air-space which might buffer impacts some - it's an idea to try.
My tumbler does not have a rubber lining but the soft plastic container and the water does cushion the cases. I have been using about 2.5 lbs of pins, lemi shine, water and 2 small squirts of Dawn. Seems to work very well and really gets the cases clean and shinny. I also use a Lyman Case dryer that works very well, I highly recommend one. Will try adding a little more water and see what happens.
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Old March 30, 2020, 09:31 AM   #14
stephensackro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
yea, it's a beast. takes two men and a boy to set in place when fully loaded with brass, pins, n water.

But I have a smaller 5" tube for smaller loads. Been thinking about making a much shorter 8" tube because the 5" tube turns a little fast. I drive it with an old Kenmore washer motor and have it wired for two speeds but I'm still geared a bit fast for the 5 incher. 8" = 36/53 RPMs, 5" = 47/72 RPMs.

I use a good bit more than a drop or two of dawn. If I don't have some suds left after tumbling I don't feel like I cut all the grime. Trial and error...
OLEY55: What would be the best RPM for a 6 inch dia tube?
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Old March 30, 2020, 10:32 AM   #15
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Oley55 is correct about the brass peening case mouths when it falls, but it is assisted by the pins inside each case adding to their mass. How far they fall and how many times they fall during the cleaning process both affect it. If the peening is significant in the time it takes to get the cases clean, you want to slow the drum down or use a smaller drum diameter to reduce the distance of the fall, or maybe both.

I once bought a thousand pieces of pull-down LC 68 Match brass from Jeff Bartlett, who warned in the description he had left them in the tumbler too long so the mouths were slightly peened over. Don't run them longer than necessary.
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Old March 30, 2020, 08:05 PM   #16
oley55
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Quote:
What would be the best RPM for a 6 inch dia tube?
I wish I knew the answer to that. When I was putting mine together 8 years ago, I couldn't find the rpms for the few wet tumblers then available. Short of watching somebodies youtube video and trying to count rpms. I suspect I'm running a bit too fast at my slow speeds.

I'm sitting on several belts an pullies as I worked through my rpm calculations. Even though one of the pulley suppliers had a calculator to help finger out ratios. Those gave me the carriage shaft speeds but then I had to figure circumference of the 1/2" shaft with rubber hose on it against the circumference of the drums.

Since I do not own a vibratory tumbler (crazy talk, I know), I'll sometimes do a polish run (if some event calls for showy ammo) using walnut/corncob mix with a bit of auto polish, in a smooth 8" drum running at high speed.

Ya gotta be careful with this whole wet pin tumbling thing so that it doesn't consume more thought and time than it deserves. We are supposed to be shooting after all.

edit: your RPM question may be found in this thread. there is at least one 6" home made in there. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Drum-explained
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Old March 31, 2020, 06:30 AM   #17
stephensackro
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Olie55: I measured mine last night and it is 38 RPM, seems to be a good speed that produces a "sloshing" action.
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Old March 31, 2020, 09:05 AM   #18
oley55
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STEPHENSACKRO,

if you haven't already done so, do check out the provided link. My recollections of my build have become fuzzy. The OP in that link provided all the formula/calculations needed. Your 38 RPM may be a wee bit slow, but I don't think that is a bad thing. Especially, when the subject of this thread is peening. A slower speed may require a bit more time, but may also reduce peening.

Run time has always been connected to the condition of the brass. Severely corroded brass may need 3 hours, while cleaner brass will require 1.5 - 2 hours.

I don't know what the commercial plastic drums sound like, but I push my rig outside because it is so danged noisy.
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