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Old August 17, 2021, 02:52 PM   #1
thallub
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New York Attorney General Amends Charges Against NRA

Letitia James, New York AG, has lodged new charges against Wayne La Pierre and the NRA. Last year the NRA Treasurer refused to sign the Form 990 report after NRA board members and executives refused to attest to the accuracy of the report.

Two months after the NRA bankruptcy adventure began WLP fired the Treasurer, claiming in court that he had resigned.

Bloomberg) -- The National Rifle Association hasn’t cleaned up rampant financial and managerial misconduct as it claimed over the past year, illustrating the need for the gun-rights group to be dissolved, New York Attorney General Letitia James said in a court filing.


"Among the treasurer’s concerns was a discovery that several board members were routinely traveling first class with verbal approval from LaPierre. “There are no ‘Wayne said’ approvals at the NRA,” the official wrote in an email, according to the amended complaint.

Rather than conduct a complete review of senior officials who had received excess benefits, the NRA focused on officers who had disputes with LaPierre, the complaint says.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nr...?ocid=msedgdhp
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Old August 17, 2021, 09:33 PM   #2
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, illustrating the need for the gun-rights group to be dissolved,..
Is it just me, or does anyone else find this just a tad ...vindictive?


I can think of no other group, company, or organization where the govt has demanded the group be abolished because the people in charge were found to be in violation of laws.

Isn't the usual thing to file charges against the individual's who broke the laws, and not demand the disbandment of the entire organization??
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Old August 17, 2021, 10:05 PM   #3
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That WLP is a convenient target is obvious
But the real objective is even more obvious.
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Old August 18, 2021, 12:35 AM   #4
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She was only momentarily distracted by His Gropenessship, back to attacking the NRA. She must hate civil rights.
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Old August 18, 2021, 03:13 AM   #5
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Is it just me, or does anyone else find this just a tad ...vindictive?
It wouldn't be the first time gun-control advocates have tried to use the legal system to hurt the RKBA when they can't get it done through the legislature. Remember, the lawsuits that led to the PLCAA were supported by Andrew Cuomo when he was in charge of HUD.
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Old August 18, 2021, 07:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP
I can think of no other group, company, or organization where the govt has demanded the group be abolished because the people in charge were found to be in violation of laws.

Isn't the usual thing to file charges against the individual's who broke the laws, and not demand the disbandment of the entire organization??
Her argument (in the filing!) is that dissolving the organization would be to the benefit of the members.

As one of those members, I have to disagree. It would (IMHO) benefit me greatly to see the court remove WLP, Carolyn Meadows, and the rest of LaPierre's cadre from the board and turn the organization back to the rank and file members. It would also benefit the members greatly if the court would undue the recent by-laws changes, but I don't know if the court has that authority.

Disband the organization entirely? I'd like Ms. James to explain to me -- in plain English -- how that's supposed to benefit me.
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Old August 18, 2021, 11:41 PM   #7
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What the NRA need is "regime change" not being legally bombed out of existence. If that change has to come from legal assault, so be it. But the rest of the organization who are guilty of no crimes should NOT be made to suffer for the misdeeds of the leadership.

We don't need to chop down the tree to get rid of the bad apples at the top of the tree, we just need to prune away the bad branches.

I'd be willing to bet the NY AG would refuse pruning shears if she thought that would let her swing her axe.
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Old August 19, 2021, 01:27 AM   #8
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New York Attorney General Letitia James. Amazing no one wants to admit the real things about her and who she really represents. Like WP or Hate Him, this is not about him. She is a thug. Ask why isn't she going after the People and leaders that have actually caused Millions of Dollars of destruction in New York.
Come on man!

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Old August 19, 2021, 03:54 AM   #9
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New York Attorney General Letitia James. Amazing no one wants to admit the real things about her and who she really represents. Like WP or Hate Him, this is not about him.
"The real things about her and who she really represents" are not pertinent in the context of the case. Those questions are of interest politically, but in the context of the case what matters is whether or not the State's assertions of wrong-doing are correct and accurate. So far, I have seen nothing presented by the NRA to convince me that the claims are not correct and accurate.

Respectfully, because Wayne LaPierre has made himself the face of the NRA and because he is the grifter-in-chief, the case basically IS about him. It also involves a few of his special cronies on the board of directors, but the case is basically about him. And it should be. If the State's assertions are true (and it appears that they are), WLP and his cronies have essentially and effectively been stealing from the NRA membership. They should be held accountable, and they should be removed from the organization.

The law that the State of New York is invoking was created to protect members of organizations from precisely these types of depredation by executives and directors. The law certainly should be applied to remove such people and to hold them accountable. However, how dissolving OUR organization benefits us, the rank-and-file members, is a complete mystery. IMHO, a more appropriate remedy would be to remove LaPierre and the entire board of directors, conduct a new election, and then allow the new board to hire a new executive VP.
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Old August 19, 2021, 04:46 AM   #10
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No love for either the atty gen or WLP, but the latter should step down. Concur that most of the BoD should resign too.
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:51 AM   #11
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"The real things about her and who she really represents" are not pertinent in the context of the case. Those questions are of interest politically, but in the context of the case what matters is whether or not the State's assertions of wrong-doing are correct and accurate. So far, I have seen nothing presented by the NRA to convince me that the claims are not correct and accurate.

Respectfully, because Wayne LaPierre has made himself the face of the NRA and because he is the grifter-in-chief, the case basically IS about him. It also involves a few of his special cronies on the board of directors, but the case is basically about him. And it should be. If the State's assertions are true (and it appears that they are), WLP and his cronies have essentially and effectively been stealing from the NRA membership. They should be held accountable, and they should be removed from the organization.

The law that the State of New York is invoking was created to protect members of organizations from precisely these types of depredation by executives and directors. The law certainly should be applied to remove such people and to hold them accountable. However, how dissolving OUR organization benefits us, the rank-and-file members, is a complete mystery. IMHO, a more appropriate remedy would be to remove LaPierre and the entire board of directors, conduct a new election, and then allow the new board to hire a new executive VP.
This Thread starts off with a Link from MSN. In the article it clearly say's and quote "‘Politically-Motivated Attack" by the defense. Should that defense be censored? Ignored? Not be a allowed defense? Should a defense that even suggest that it is political be punished? Are citizens, business's, Corporations now NOT allowed to even question a Prosecutor without fear of reprisal?
Regardless of personal beliefs of individuals, we are not the Judge and Jury. Let up just hope that the NRA can actually have fair Trial allow them to present their case without censorship.

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Old August 19, 2021, 08:18 AM   #12
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"This Thread starts off with a Link from MSN."

Big deal:

For amended complaint see page 4, para 12:

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nys.../QYGimiwIE3Q==

"12. As a result of these failures, the NRA, at the direction of the Individual Defendants
and with a series of failures of required oversight by its Board, has persistently engaged in illegal
and unauthorized activities in the conduct and transaction of its business. Individual Defendants—
in their roles as officers and directors—routinely circumvented internal controls; condoned or
partook in expenditures that were an inappropriate and wasteful use of charitable assets; and
concealed or misreported relevant information—made possible by the Board’s negligent oversight
of management—rendering the NRA’s annual reports filed with the Attorney General materially
false and misleading. Defendants abdicated all responsibility for ensuring that the NRA’s assets
were managed prudently and in good faith. The Attorney General commenced this action in August
2020. The original complaint provided the Defendants with detailed factual allegations about the
NRA’s past and ongoing governance failures. Despite having this information, the Defendants and
the Board failed to take appropriate action to investigate the allegations and failed to adequately
remediate identified deficiencies.
13. Instead, in the twelve months since the commencement of this action, the
Defendants failed to adequately investigate the allegations in the complaint, undertook an
incomplete and opaque process that failed to reliably identify excess benefits received by NRA
officers and directors, and failed to adequately instruct and oversee the work of the NRA’s new
external audit firm. Shortly after the NRA’s Chief Financial Officer attempted to verify
representations in the NRA’s Form 990 for 2019, LaPierre fired him. And in January 2021,
LaPierre, with the knowledge and approval of a small group of loyalists but without the knowledge
or approval of the full Board, filed a petition under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code in
Texas in an attempt to evade this action. LaPierre’s process for unilaterally authorizing the
bankruptcy was found by the bankruptcy court to be “nothing less than shocking.” Following an expedited discovery schedule and trial that cost the NRA tens of millions of dollars in legal fees
and other costs, the court concluded the bankruptcy petition was not filed in good faith and
dismissed the proceeding. The court also warned that, “should the NRA file a new bankruptcy
case, [it] would immediately take up some of its concerns about disclosure, transparency, secrecy,
conflicts of interest of officers and litigation counsel, and the unusual involvement of litigation
counsel in the affairs of the NRA, which could cause the appointment of a trustee out of a concern
that the NRA could not fulfill the fiduciary duty required by the Bankruptcy Code for a debtor in
possession.”


The New York attorney general is stating that WLP, his minions and the BOD have refused to clean up their act in the one year since the case against the NRA was filed.

WLP lied to the bankruptcy judge when he stated the the Financial Officer had resigned. WLP fired the guy for failure to lie on the 990 report.

i became an NRA Life Member in 1960. Contributed until it hurt until WLP began raging about political trash outside the the NRA charter. After the debacle at the NRA convention i clawed back a bequeath to the NRA.

i will renew my contributions when the current BOD is reformed and WLP is gone.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ne...ard-oversight/

Last edited by thallub; August 19, 2021 at 08:38 AM.
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Old August 19, 2021, 09:47 AM   #13
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Let’s step back and see who the primary blame belongs to…..Wayne La Pierre. He didn’t give one whit about the NRA’s future. He and his cronies were simply out to enrich themselves like royalty. No sympathy for the AT in this, but Mr. LaPierre simply opened the door to disaster.
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Old August 19, 2021, 02:51 PM   #14
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So far, I have seen nothing presented by the NRA to convince me that the claims are not correct and accurate.
And why are you expecting to??

Guilty or innocent (and my personal feel is he has done us wrong) WLP is under to compulsion to defend himself in the court of public opinion, and, it is entirely possible that doing so could harm his chances of successful defense in court.

If you can remember back far enough, Wayne did good work for us, in the beginning. But in recent decades, his changing of the rules to virtually ensure he becomes "President for Life" and his raiding of NRA money as his personal piggy bank have shown the truth about "power corrupts...."

This case is (and should be) about certain specific points of law, not personalities and I'd give you my personal opinion about WLP and the NY AG but forum rules prevent the terminology I would by preference, use.

I think the point here is about every NRA member and activity being "tarred with the same brush" because WLP and some others have broken the rules for their own personal profit.

we are constantly and repeatedly told that it is unfair and unethical to "profile" and we should not judge all memembers of a religious or ethnic group by the actions of a few individuals.

So how is calling for the dissolution of the NRA not a hypocritical violation of that standard??

The case has not yet gone to trial. What ever WLP's (and through him, the NRA"s) defense will be may not be known until it becomes a matter of court record.

Personally I'd like to see WLP and cronies gone and the NRA preserved. The NY AG isn't offering that option (at this time at any rate) but if I have to accept WLP getting less than what I think he deserves in order to preserve the NRA, I'll take that, not happily, but I'll take it.
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Old August 19, 2021, 03:45 PM   #15
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“It became necessary to destroy the town to save it,”
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Old August 19, 2021, 04:27 PM   #16
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When the head of a snake is cut off, the rest of his body is just a ordinary rope.
African Proverbs.
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Old August 19, 2021, 05:16 PM   #17
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The satirical voice in strong here.
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Is it just me, or does anyone else find this just a tad ...vindictive?


I can think of no other group, company, or organization where the govt has demanded the group be abolished because the people in charge were found to be in violation of laws.

Isn't the usual thing to file charges against the individual's who broke the laws, and not demand the disbandment of the entire organization??
I try to look at it objectively. Most groups remove their Criminal leadership. The NRA runs off the people who exposed the Criminals. I am an NRA member, but I honestly believe W.L. is guilty of a string of felonies a mile long. NRA needs a complete house cleaning. I honestly view them as a necessary evil.
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
This Thread starts off with a Link from MSN. In the article it clearly say's and quote "‘Politically-Motivated Attack" by the defense. Should that defense be censored? Ignored? Not be a allowed defense? Should a defense that even suggest that it is political be punished? Are citizens, business's, Corporations now NOT allowed to even question a Prosecutor without fear of reprisal?
Regardless of personal beliefs of individuals, we are not the Judge and Jury. Let up just hope that the NRA can actually have fair Trial allow them to present their case without censorship.
I don't see how they are not guilty. North and several board members I trust publicly called them out on this when they resigned. The NRA would fire W L. if it cared about it's membership.
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:39 PM   #20
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When public men indulge themselves in abuse, when they deny others a fair trial, when they resort to innuendo and insinuation, to libel, scandal, and suspicion, then our democratic society is outraged, and democracy is baffled.
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Old August 19, 2021, 07:02 PM   #21
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The NRA would fire W L. if it cared about it's membership.
Its about more than caring. Like any other large club, group, or organization the NRA has rules they have to follow. Called By-laws, these are the "contract" with itself that the group follows in order to operate.

I'm not privy to the details, but from what i have heard, WLP and his power block got the bylaws changed some years back, making it difficult to remove him from office.

These things must be done correctly, all the "i"s dotted and the "t"s crossed or its not legal and binding and lawsuits will almost certainly be filed.

And I'm sure it would put a smile on many anti NRA people's faces to see the NRA fighting a lawsuit with itself.

SO, yes, I too think WLP must go, BUT, it has to be done either in strict accordance with CURRENT NRA Bylaws or by court order, otherwise, it won't work.

And, if it won't work, its a waste of money and time to try.
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Old August 19, 2021, 07:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker
When public men indulge themselves in abuse, when they deny others a fair trial, when they resort to innuendo and insinuation, to libel, scandal, and suspicion, then our democratic society is outraged, and democracy is baffled.
You are, of course, referring to Wayne LaPierre ... right?

You must be -- that description doesn't fit anyone else in this discussion.
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Old August 19, 2021, 09:04 PM   #23
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Its about more than caring. Like any other large club, group, or organization the NRA has rules they have to follow. Called By-laws, these are the "contract" with itself that the group follows in order to operate.

I'm not privy to the details, but from what i have heard, WLP and his power block got the bylaws changed some years back, making it difficult to remove him from office.

These things must be done correctly, all the "i"s dotted and the "t"s crossed or its not legal and binding and lawsuits will almost certainly be filed.

And I'm sure it would put a smile on many anti NRA people's faces to see the NRA fighting a lawsuit with itself.

SO, yes, I too think WLP must go, BUT, it has to be done either in strict accordance with CURRENT NRA Bylaws or by court order, otherwise, it won't work.

And, if it won't work, its a waste of money and time to try.
There was a bylaws change that protects Lapierre. The board can fire him. The board is elected by the membership. I have not talked to a member in several years that supports W.L. How hard can it be to elect board members who will fire him? I have to be missing something. (Seriously, not sarcastically)
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Old August 19, 2021, 10:43 PM   #24
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There was a bylaws change that protects Lapierre. The board can fire him. The board is elected by the membership. I have not talked to a member in several years that supports W.L. How hard can it be to elect board members who will fire him? I have to be missing something. (Seriously, not sarcastically)
If you can find them, read the by-laws. The current by-laws.

Pay particular attention to who the nominating committee is, and what it requires for an at-large member to get on the ballot for the board of directors.
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Old August 20, 2021, 12:55 AM   #25
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When you have a large number of directors then you have to get a large number in place to make a change. The by laws changes make it very much harder to get someone one the nominated list.

I just spent a little time on the NRA website and can't find a copy of the bylaws or a list of the directors easily. So I'm not sure exactly how many there are currently but believe it to be in excess of 75 or so. Which means you may need to replace as many as 38 (or more directors) to get them to replace the Executive VP. With 20? positions up for replacement annually that means at least two complete election cycles to possibly get enough directors to do so unless a bunch of the current directors go along with some "rabblerousers".
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