Walker as a hunting companion

[TheLastGoodFight]

My state recently legalized carrying a black powder revolver with your single shot rifle during primitive rifle season. I have a Richland Arms Co. Walker reproduction that I'd like to carry with my rifle but I have no experience with actual black powder, especially not revolvers.
This one seems best suited for .451 lead balls, in spite of the Walker repro's tendency to like .454.
My questions are twofold:
1. Can someone recommend a black powder deer load for the Walker? I was thinking 60gr of black powder but could use some advice.
2. I use Hodgdon 50/50 Pyrodex pellets for my modern muzzle loader rifle and I'm wondering if there is a safe way to use the same thing, or other smokeless propellants for the Walker.

[T. O'Heir]

You have to work up the load same as you do smokeless. Buy a copy of The Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. About $30 at your local gun shop or Amazon. I think it has loads developed for the Walker. Not at home to look. It's a pretty good read too.

[rodwhaincamo]

NEVER use smokeless in any BP gun unless it's one of the few designed for it.

Those pellets are a BP substitute and not smokeless powder.

Your necessary load would be dependent upon the powder you choose. They do make .44 cal pellets but I believe they only come in 30 grn variety.

I use 3F Triple 7 and Olde Eynsford powders in my Ruger Old Army and Remington NMA. These guns would be dismal using most any other powder (.38 Spl performance). However because of the powder I use I get .45 ACP/ACP +P performance with a 195 grn bullet. But then a Walker holds almost half as much again and shows 60 grns of 3F standard Goex producing 1115 fps with a ball which isn't too bad. That much Pyrodex P was shown to go 1221 fps and that much Swiss, which produces similar velocities as Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 produced 1278 fps.

There's a fellow who hunts hogs with a group of guys all using pistols. He carries a Walker and uses 66 grns of 2F Triple 7 with a ball. His partners typically use a Kaido bullet (modified .45 Colt Lee bullet). He claims the ball with that much powder creates a more wicked wound track. I prefer a WFN bullet and had Accurate Molds create me a few custom designs.

Lyman's 2nd Edition BP Handbook only shows up to 45 grn charges.

For my two guns I looked at chronographed results of similar projectiles and figured with a bullet I'd be happy enough with warmer .44 Spl performance and so 25 grns of energetic 3F powder was my minimum load and looked for what was the most accurate starting there. For my NMA it is 30 grns and for my ROA it is 35 grns. These are not max loads, which typically aren't the most accurate.

Were it me I'd look at using an energetic powder and starting at about 35 grns with a ball and going up in 5 grn increments until I found the most accurate load. A .451" ball is between a .45 (.440") and .50 cal (.490") rifle ball and these will give complete passthroughs typically on broadside deer out to 100-125 yds. That velocity is about what you'd get from your Walker at 25 yds with a 35 grn charge.

Is this pistol meant to be used as a primary weapon?

Quite frankly I don't care for pellets as you can't optimize your loads and the cost is rather high for what it is. They are convenient but then I can either make paper cartridges for my revolvers or use premeasured powder in reuseable tubes for either them or my sidelock muzzleloader.

[Hawg]

.454 balls pull back out of my Uberti dragoon with the ram. I would imagine the Walker would be the same. I use .457 balls which IIRC is what Uberti recomends for it. Not sure right off who made guns for Richland but there weren't many making Walkers. Uberti, ASM, And Palmetto are the only ones that come to mind.

[bn12gg]

Remember that the Walker safety is the hammer down on an empty no capped cylinder. Otherwise a stumble and fall in the field might just blow your foot off. Just say'n !!

.02. David.

[rodwhaincamo]

I thought the Walker had a single safety post. No?

[4V50 Gary]

ROA. Smaller and lighter.

[rodwhaincamo]

Or even the Remington NMA.

Prior to getting my first revolver (ROA) I was enamored with the 2nd model Dragoon. However the ROA and NMA are much more handy. And with the proper powder plenty.

[Hawg]

I thought the Walker had a single safety post. No?

Uberti does. I think ASM Walkers have 6.

[Hellgate]

Hawg, I'll bet there is a slight rim on the inside of your Walker rammer and if you chamfered the inside edge with a Dremel stone like I did on my Walker you would stop it from lifting balls out of the chambers.

LGF,
I read from a reliable source several years ago that at least one Walker barrel assembly was sent down range when a full load of FFFg 777 was touched off causing the arbor to come apart at the wedge cutout. Last I heard was the owner was trying to make some kind of a pepperbox out of it. At the very least, with heavy loads of anything, but especially 777, you are gonna get crushed wedges that will open up your cylinder gap and you will lose power right there. I crushed the wedges on both of my Uberti Walkers just shooting 50 grs of FFFg & a .454 ball for 30 shots each in a CAS match. I had a great time with lots of flash & smoke but much of it was coming out the top of the gun rather than the barrel. Later I settled on 45 grs FFg which is much softer shooting and easier on the gun. 18 bucks worth of replacement wedges closed the cylinder gap and I was good to go again.

As others have said, work up the most accurate load because the most powerful may not hit where you want it to.

As for safety pins. On one ASM I saw one pin on the back of the cylinder and a small hole in the center of the hammer face for it to fit over. On another ASM I saw 6 pins and a deeply slotted hammer face like most repro Colts. My Ubertis had pins and a hammer slot.

[Hawg]

I don't have a Walker, I have a dragoon. It works fine with .457 balls. If you fix that short arbor you can shoot heavy loads all day long and not batter a wedge.

[bn12gg]

My Uberti Walker had no safety. Maybe I'm missing something.

.02. David.

[rodwhaincamo]

I've read that those little pins can be broken off.

[Hawg]

I've read that those little pins can be broken off.

Anything can be broken. The question is how much force will it take? How much force would you expect any safety to take?

[rodwhaincamo]

No doubt. It's just something I've read a few times and both with replicas and originals. The pins look rather tiny and being softer steel.

[44 Dave]

You going to carry that "big iron" on your hip or on a horse, what ever a flap holster will make it safer, pins or no pins.

[Hawg]

No doubt. It's just something I've read a few times and both with replicas and originals. The pins look rather tiny and being softer steel.

I've heard the same thing about the safety notch on 73 Colts. I have torn down a number of originals and never saw a broken safety notch.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm guessing there is no reason that you couldn't carry a Walker if you state allows it - but I can sure think of a lot lighter handguns to carry! LOL

Personally, I see no real need to carry a 5 shot revolver (with the hammer on an empty chamber) when hunting with a muzzleloader. I hunted whitetails for many years with a single shot muzzleloader. With your rifle, be sure of your target and "one shot one kill". If you have practiced shooting with your rifle and you know how it shoots - you should be fine. If not, then don't take the shot.

[James K]

Has anyone here actually carried a Walker very far? If you must carry a C&B revolver on a hunt, you might want to consider something lighter.

As for the safety pins, they were used so the gun could be carried safely with the hammer down but ready for immediate use, like the slots in the rear of the Remington cylinder. Most repros don't have them (though they have the hammer notch!) since the makers felt that repros would not be carried full up.

Jim

[Hawg]

As for the safety pins, they were used so the gun could be carried safely with the hammer down but ready for immediate use, like the slots in the rear of the Remington cylinder. Most repros don't have them (though they have the hammer notch!) since the makers felt that repros would not be carried full up.

I've never seen one without them or at least one on a Walker as per originals. I've had a number of Colt style revolvers over the years and they all had six.

[bamaranger]

Somewhere, in my archives, I have an article written by Rick HACKER, (I think)who was a C&B addict of some note. In that article he takes a whitetail doe with a Walker.

I read that article a LONG time ago.......and I could be off about the author. It's supposed to rain this week end, maybe I will dive into the stacks.

[Rachen]

I am sure the Walker will function quite well as a primary hunting arm for medium game at moderate range and defense against large game at close range.

On the 1858 Remington forums, in a thread about the Cattleman Carbine, someone showed just what a properly packed and sealed chamber containing 35 grains of Pyrodex-P or Goex Olde Eynsford powder with a 240-grain Kaido conical bullet seated atop can do. Velocity of over 1100fps, and with that Kaido round, that is more than a .357 Mag factory load. Loads consisting of swaged lead ball and over 35 to 40 grains of OE or Pyrodex in the Cattleman rifle yielded 1600fps. That would put the 16-inch barrel carbine well into the .41 Magnum category in terms of range and stopping power.

Most people here who know me knows that I carry an 1858 defensively as well as a hunting arm. I've had a chance to procure a couple cans of Olde Eynsford, which is an absolutely wonderful propellant and delivers the same high energy and relatively low recoil as Swiss. OE and Pyrodex are almost the same when loaded properly and fired through a chronograph.

38 grains of OE and a 140 grain Hornady roundball yielded 1300 feet/sec when fired from the 8-inch barrel 1858. That is, well compressed, with the nipple sealed by a section of plastic hospital O2 tubing to provide water resistance as well as a deterrant against cap fragmentation and gas blast from ignition cone. That is absolutely amazing, and since OE and Swiss actually replicates the quality of the "sporting powders" made in the 19th century, this may be very close to the performance that the Civil War and Old West shooters got from their caplock revolvers. There is an article in one of Dixie Gun Work's Blackpowder Annuals which describe how a plainsman rode into a herd of buffalo and killed two of them with a Colt Dragoon. If the above recorded velocities were indeed what could be delivered from 19th century powders, such a feat would certainly be readily accomplished.

[swathdiver]

Hovey Smith hunts with a Walker sometimes. A 50 grain charge of 2F will send a round ball downrange at supersonic speeds, plenty for deer. A Kaido Conical would be even better. You can safely carry with all six capped with the hammer down on a pin.

It should be obvious, that these babies are heavy and unwieldly unless you're the size of a linebacker or lumberjack. You can do the same with an 1860 or 1858, men have been taking game with them ever since.

[45 Dragoon]

That's true and Hovey's Walker doesn't get cap jams anymore either!


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[44 Dave]

Dragoon magic on Hovey's Walker !!