SCOTUS and "ghost guns"

[44 AMP]

Ok, so here's a question, I know there is "sensitive, proprietary, and even classified information", and there are legal restrictions on the possession and use of those.

But, if the information is in the public domain, and has been for some time, is it a proper use of govt authority to restrict that information, because some people (and really only a handful of people, essentially) are using it for criminal purposes, or (worse) restrict the information because someone MIGHT misuse it??

Isn't that what those people are trying to have happen with the 3D printer issue??

[Metal god]

I don’t think that argument really matters anymore because the precedent has already been . The NFA is all about what someone could or might do with NFA items . I could see a piling on of new items that “could be” and or “might be” dangerous if in the wrong hands . The 9th circuit just expanded what are sensitive places . Basically without saying it they expanded it to anywhere there is a high likelihood of children present. Parks , museums and many other places. I have found all those new places has a very high likelihood of children being around. It’s what we get when we accept any sensitive places , it now becomes arbitrary . Human have been doing it since the beginning of time . If you give an inch , there are those that will take a mile.

[rmh3481]

Gun Control Act of 1968 is the law that gives you the right to make your own gun. As long as the gun isnt for sale and your not a prohibited person, I would think you would be legal. There is a gentleman from New York who was sentenced to 10 years in State Prison because he made a bunch of P80 pistols. Its going to take a little while for the man to be released at which time he will collect his golden parachute. As soon as the unconstitutional state law is gone over by the Federal Appeals Court the man walks. He has good lawyers, but he is in a cell right now. Things like this are purely political which is sad. Im old enough to remember the High School Shooting Team. P80 declared bankruptcy a couple weeks back so anything available for sale now was sold previously.

[Metal god]

I think the state’s argument is , you are not making the fire if someone else makes 80% of it then sells that 80% made firearm to you . At that point you are not making a firearm as much as “finishing” the process. Is that a distinction without a difference? Well that’s what the courts are going to decide I guess.

[Sharkbite]

Is that a distinction without a difference?

But “80%” is such an arbitrary number. The question, IMHO, is WHEN does a block of metal become a firearm? I think it is once it is fully functional.

A finished receiver is FINISHED (as in done) an UNFINISHED receiver is not. I dont care if it has 90% left to go or 5%…10%…18.5%. Its either finished or its not. The law seems clear on this. We (as in Americans) have had the ability to build our own firearms since before the founding of the country. Seems like Bruen would put this firmly in the “its Constitutionally protected”.

[44 AMP]

The NFA is all about what someone could or might do with NFA items

No, its not. The NFA 34 is a TAX LAW. Its all about the tax, registration and regulations stating what is taxed. Penalties, and fines are because you didn't register and pay the tax on the item. Not because of what you might do with it.

Until the govt changed their rules in 68, if you were caught with an unregistered, untaxed NFA item, (and had done nothing else against the law) you could register the gun, pay the tax (and I heard a 25% penalty) and go on your merry way keeping the gun. After 68, the govt changed that, and made possession of such an item a criminal act, as well as tax evasion.

Gun Control Act of 1968 is the law that gives you the right to make your own gun.

No, it does not. Never did, no law does, or can. Whether you consider them endowed upon us by our Creator, (God given) or natural rights that we posses simply because we exist, our govt does not give us any rights, not through the Constitution, or any lesser law. They can't, grant us any rights as we already possess our rights simply by being here.

The Bill of Rights in the Constitution grants no rights, it is a list of RESTRICTIONS on the government covering how the govt may act in respect to SOME of our rights (those listed) and it also contains articles specifically stating that the rites listed are not the only ones that exist, and things not listed in the BOR specifically belong to the the states, or the people, respectively.

The law can limit, and restrict, or even prohibit the exercise of certain rights under certain circumstances, but it does not grant any rights. It is a distinction lost on many people and one generally ignored in casual conversation, but it is the truth.

[Metal god]

Nfa is a back door ban on items . You can drink the government’s kool-Aid that its a tax if you’d like .

[44 AMP]

Nfa is a back door ban on items .

Its NOT a ban. A tax intended to discourage people due to the increase in cost, ABSOLUTELY, but its not a ban.

When something is banned, it is completely prohibited. Very restricted and banned are not the same thing, and the terms should not be used interchangeably.

Banned is like being pregnant. Something either is, or it isn't, there's no partial ban just as there's no "partial" pregnancy.

The sloppy use of a term in casual conversation (and particularly in the news media) does not change reality. And should not change the understood definition of words, but sadly, sometimes, it does. Especially when it is used in a law.

[Jim Watson]

What is the tax on a new submachine gun? There isn't one. "The registry is closed." So I can't buy one, but there is not a ban. Hmm.

[44 AMP]

The Hughes amendment closed the registry by not allowing any new additions, but you can still buy any of the guns in the registry, so TECHNICALLY, its not a ban on ownership, but it is a ban on expanding the registry.

Remember the mindset, as long as you can get one, no matter how difficult or expensive, our rights are not being violated and things aren't "banned".

Personally I disagree, as, I think, many do.

[Metal god]

so TECHNICALLY

There’s a back door ban , hmm I heard that somewhere before

[Cirdan]

Here's an off the wall question. Does the existence of a serial number actually help law enforcement solve crimes?

[Metal god]

Sure it can for those that use there registered firearm in a crime then leave it behind for the police to trace .

[44 AMP]

Does the existence of a serial number actually help law enforcement solve crimes?

Sure, it can, certain crimes, such as stolen property, crimes. When the records exist, a serial number links the gun to a specific owner. Does it solve the investigation? Not often, but it is a link, and can result in a person being included or excluded as a suspect.

Cases where a gun is stolen, it is very important, and I know of more than one case where the legal owner got their stolen gun back, because the police had his report that included the serial number. A couple of those cases, the guy got his gun back 10 years after it was stolen.

Does tracing a serial number tell who shot who when, why and how? No, of course not. All a serial number can do is identify the last legal owner at the end of the paper trail.

So, the point is that, while the paper trail often dead ends and does not connect the person who used that ser# gun in a crime with the gun, when there is no paper trail at all (no serial number and no maker ID for there to be records of,) LEOs doesn't have the opportunity to follow it and see if it leads anywhere useful.

There are, literally millions of guns in the country where the paper trail ends, years or decades in the past. Those gun are still around, have often passed through multiple owners without any written records anywhere any investigation can find.