in your opinion, are guns like the uzi, mac series, and tech 9s pointless these days? - Page 3

Rob228 · July 16, 2022, 12:08 PM

Quote:

It means mine goes up in value constantly and significantly. Having the police seize my $600 AR as evidence (after a shooting) would suck. Having them seize my (oh I dunno probably) $11,000 smg would be heart breaking. It lives in a safe

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

Black Wolf · July 16, 2022, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob228

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

That's awesome! I'm gonna remember that saying

Bill DeShivs · July 16, 2022, 02:46 PM

In my younger days, I sold jewelry. It was common to have quite a bit of expensive merchandise with me, and if you are selling to individuals you have to advertise that fact. After a couple of instances of being followed in my car, I realized I was the perfect target on a lonely road. While I carried a handgun, I wanted something that would be more suitable if someone was attempting to run me off of the road.

I bought an "Enforcer" pistol (M-1 carbine pistol.) I figured 30 rounds of carbine should be about the maximum pistol I could get, at the time. While I am no longer in exactly that business, I still have it. It's fun to shoot. BTW- NEVER shoot a .30 carbine pistol in a car-unless you have to!

TunnelRat · July 17, 2022, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob228

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

I think that’s a good point.

I would also point out that if you do end up using a firearm in self defense the loss of that firearm may be relatively cheap compared to the legal costs (a lot of this depends on the state) or the emotional and personal toll that goes along with it. I don’t carry expensive pistols these days (at least from my perspective) but when I did I figured if I used them I had bigger issues on my plate than losing them after the fact. Put another way, I spend hundreds to thousands of dollars year after year on insurance that I generally don’t use fully on the off chance something might happen to me. At least with a firearm you get to shoot it too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Drm50 · July 18, 2022, 03:20 PM

I’m not going to carry 2nd rate gun for SD. Makes me think why this country is in such a mess. If it saves my life I’ll hold it for cop to kick a field goal with. Reminds me of skit where murders have old guy jacked up in an alley. Old dude has wallet full of money out offering murders $50 to leave him alone. Fear not , if SHF nature cleans out the gene pool.
Having said that we have guys toting very expensive guns for SD. Expensive don’t mean good for the task.

**44 AMP** · July 18, 2022, 05:18 PM

Although the OP did mention select fire pistols, he put the thread in the semi auto handguns forum, so I would consider the select fire/SMG guns to be off topic.

What I believe he was asking about are the semi auto (only) versions of the Uzi, Mac and Tec 9 guns, which are legally semi auto pistols.

I've had personal experience with the Mac style and the Tec 9 and other than magazine capacity (a dubious advantage) they are inferior to regular handguns in the same calibers.

They are large, heavy, awkward, poorly balanced have generally inferior trigger pulls and sights that are virtually unusable with the gun held at arms length, compared to regular duty class pistols.

That being said, they are not pointless, provided you recognize the enjoyment of shooting them is their point.

rodfac · July 18, 2022, 07:05 PM

Tunnel Rat: "I would also point out that if you do end up using a firearm in self defense the loss of that firearm may be relatively cheap compared to the legal costs (a lot of this depends on the state) or the emotional and personal toll that goes along with it."

Absolutely...and well said. Rod

Hawg · July 18, 2022, 07:16 PM

Any practical use no. Fun to play with yes.

Scorch · July 21, 2022, 07:15 PM

Insights? Just what I picked up in the USMC back in the 80s. SMGs have been dropped from the military's arsenal and replaced with the M-16/M-16A1/M-16A2/M4/etc family of weapons. The primary advantage of the SMG was high rate of fire in assault/CQB situateions, and the M-16/M4 family can handle that at least as well as a SMG. People want to argue about size and how compact an Uzi or Mac 9 or HK MP5 or M3 is, and yes they are more compact but heavy, and not so easy to master, and about worthless at more than 100 yds. Add in ammo supply and parts availability logistics and maintenance in real combat situations, give me the same thing everybody else is carrying.

But hey, they're cool! As long as you don't have to pay for ammo.

TruthTellers · July 23, 2022, 04:18 AM

A couple years ago I had an interest in the vz. 61 Skorpion in .32 ACP, it's along the lines of a Tec 9 or Mac 10 and I thought about what use these semi auto versions of machine pistols had and couldn't think of any other than "it's cool."

It's not the 1980s anymore, we have more than just 1911's, Browning HP's, and Beretta 92's available to us that can use 30 round mags and don't require having to search high and low at gun shows to get said 30 round mags.

I remember watching something about the wrestler who slapped John Stossel after getting fired later turned into a bounty hunter and his preferred gun while working was the Tec-9. I understand at the time that was the gun for maximizing firepower, but compared to what we have today it's terrible.

If they were full auto they might have some use, but I question the validity of a full auto pistol. I can understand something like the Vz 61 for tank crews or the Mac 10 for drivers, but for conceal carry or home defense? Just so many better options that would cost less and work better.

Nathan · July 23, 2022, 07:02 AM

To me, those guns are great historical items, but guns like the MP5 clones, scorpion, Sig MCS?? or B&T stuff seem more ergonomic, more suppressor ready and more controllable in rapid fire.

My money will probably go towards these.

Electrod47 · July 23, 2022, 04:51 PM

Original Question: "in your opinion, are guns like the uzi, mac series, and tech 9s pointless these days?"

Back in the day, there weren't many options for high capacity stow away kinda rigs in Pistol caliber. Except heavy for size military rigs, Sterling etc.( I'm not forgetting the Browning High-Power.)

These guns kinda caught everybody's imagination and were mostly inexpensive
( except the Uzi).
Today you got plastic pistols that can carry 17 rounds in a normal package w/30 rounders available etc. Polymer seems to have outlasted stamped metal. Who knew?
Curiosity pieces are never pointless.

Metric · July 24, 2022, 04:41 PM

No doubt they are great fun.

But at this particular point in time, I'm trying to increase my ammo reserve, not blow through it.

highpower3006 · July 24, 2022, 05:28 PM

I have a few civilianized sub gun clones (Uzi, MAC10, a MP5 clone and a CZ Scorpion). I bought them just because I like the way they look and never once had a thought that they were going to be my ultimate self defense weapon. I also have a couple of SBR rifles and quite honestly if I felt that I needed to bail out the back door and take on an intruder, I would ten times rather use my AR15 SBR with the suppressor over any 9mm semi auto sub gun clone.

They are fun to shoot though, and I love pulling them out and blasting away. The Uzi and MAC10 get tons of attention at the range. I have been impressed with the long range accuracy of the CZ Scorpion and the AP5 using a RDS.

I think too many people have the mindset that every gun they have just has to fit into some kind of defense role, instead of having some guns just because you want to have a bit of fun shooting them.

Sharkbite · July 24, 2022, 07:15 PM

Quote:

take on an intruder, I would ten times rather use my AR15 SBR with the suppressor over any 9mm semi auto sub gun clone.

And thats exactly why you dont see many (if any) Tac teams rolling with SMG’s of any type Anymore. Anything that can be done with a SMG, can be done better with a SBR.

I have a 300 black out SBR that will outshine ANY SMG out there.

ammo.crafter · July 25, 2022, 08:38 AM

It's akin to letting a door-to-door salesman getting his foot in your door.

Alan0354 · July 25, 2022, 01:51 PM

Well I can think of a few reasons to own those:
1) I can tell people I own one.
2) It looks mean!!
3) Show off to people!!

Honestly, for self defense, I don't see any reason.

CUBAN REDNECK · July 25, 2022, 05:31 PM

I've shot all three, with the Uzi and the Mac being in full-auto. The TEC-9 is basically garbage. I would take the Uzi and Mac any day of the week. If I had the money I'd get a $200 tax stamp and $10-20K plus and buy the Uzi and a Mac. The Uzi and Mac are easy to manipulate, shoot, conceal, and carry. The open bolt on both the Uzi and the Mac are not an issue, IMHO.

July 16, 2022, 02:46 PM	#53
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	In my younger days, I sold jewelry. It was common to have quite a bit of expensive merchandise with me, and if you are selling to individuals you have to advertise that fact. After a couple of instances of being followed in my car, I realized I was the perfect target on a lonely road. While I carried a handgun, I wanted something that would be more suitable if someone was attempting to run me off of the road. I bought an "Enforcer" pistol (M-1 carbine pistol.) I figured 30 rounds of carbine should be about the maximum pistol I could get, at the time. While I am no longer in exactly that business, I still have it. It's fun to shoot. BTW- NEVER shoot a .30 carbine pistol in a car-unless you have to! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 18, 2022, 05:18 PM	#56
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	Although the OP did mention select fire pistols, he put the thread in the semi auto handguns forum, so I would consider the select fire/SMG guns to be off topic. What I believe he was asking about are the semi auto (only) versions of the Uzi, Mac and Tec 9 guns, which are legally semi auto pistols. I've had personal experience with the Mac style and the Tec 9 and other than magazine capacity (a dubious advantage) they are inferior to regular handguns in the same calibers. They are large, heavy, awkward, poorly balanced have generally inferior trigger pulls and sights that are virtually unusable with the gun held at arms length, compared to regular duty class pistols. That being said, they are not pointless, provided you recognize the enjoyment of shooting them is their point. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 18, 2022, 07:05 PM	#57
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Tunnel Rat: "I would also point out that if you do end up using a firearm in self defense the loss of that firearm may be relatively cheap compared to the legal costs (a lot of this depends on the state) or the emotional and personal toll that goes along with it." Absolutely...and well said. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

July 21, 2022, 07:15 PM	#59
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Insights? Just what I picked up in the USMC back in the 80s. SMGs have been dropped from the military's arsenal and replaced with the M-16/M-16A1/M-16A2/M4/etc family of weapons. The primary advantage of the SMG was high rate of fire in assault/CQB situateions, and the M-16/M4 family can handle that at least as well as a SMG. People want to argue about size and how compact an Uzi or Mac 9 or HK MP5 or M3 is, and yes they are more compact but heavy, and not so easy to master, and about worthless at more than 100 yds. Add in ammo supply and parts availability logistics and maintenance in real combat situations, give me the same thing everybody else is carrying. But hey, they're cool! As long as you don't have to pay for ammo. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 23, 2022, 04:18 AM	#60
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	A couple years ago I had an interest in the vz. 61 Skorpion in .32 ACP, it's along the lines of a Tec 9 or Mac 10 and I thought about what use these semi auto versions of machine pistols had and couldn't think of any other than "it's cool." It's not the 1980s anymore, we have more than just 1911's, Browning HP's, and Beretta 92's available to us that can use 30 round mags and don't require having to search high and low at gun shows to get said 30 round mags. I remember watching something about the wrestler who slapped John Stossel after getting fired later turned into a bounty hunter and his preferred gun while working was the Tec-9. I understand at the time that was the gun for maximizing firepower, but compared to what we have today it's terrible. If they were full auto they might have some use, but I question the validity of a full auto pistol. I can understand something like the Vz 61 for tank crews or the Mac 10 for drivers, but for conceal carry or home defense? Just so many better options that would cost less and work better. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

July 18, 2022, 03:20 PM	#55
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	I’m not going to carry 2nd rate gun for SD. Makes me think why this country is in such a mess. If it saves my life I’ll hold it for cop to kick a field goal with. Reminds me of skit where murders have old guy jacked up in an alley. Old dude has wallet full of money out offering murders $50 to leave him alone. Fear not , if SHF nature cleans out the gene pool. Having said that we have guys toting very expensive guns for SD. Expensive don’t mean good for the task.

July 18, 2022, 07:16 PM	#58
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Any practical use no. Fun to play with yes.

July 23, 2022, 07:02 AM	#61
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,331	To me, those guns are great historical items, but guns like the MP5 clones, scorpion, Sig MCS?? or B&T stuff seem more ergonomic, more suppressor ready and more controllable in rapid fire. My money will probably go towards these. Last edited by Nathan; July 23, 2022 at 07:30 AM.

July 23, 2022, 04:51 PM	#62
Electrod47 Member Join Date: April 27, 2021 Location: SE Mississippi Posts: 92	Original Question: "in your opinion, are guns like the uzi, mac series, and tech 9s pointless these days?" Back in the day, there weren't many options for high capacity stow away kinda rigs in Pistol caliber. Except heavy for size military rigs, Sterling etc.( I'm not forgetting the Browning High-Power.) These guns kinda caught everybody's imagination and were mostly inexpensive ( except the Uzi). Today you got plastic pistols that can carry 17 rounds in a normal package w/30 rounders available etc. Polymer seems to have outlasted stamped metal. Who knew? Curiosity pieces are never pointless. Last edited by Electrod47; July 25, 2022 at 01:58 PM.

July 24, 2022, 04:41 PM	#63
Metric Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2016 Posts: 344	No doubt they are great fun. But at this particular point in time, I'm trying to increase my ammo reserve, not blow through it.

July 24, 2022, 05:28 PM	#64
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	I have a few civilianized sub gun clones (Uzi, MAC10, a MP5 clone and a CZ Scorpion). I bought them just because I like the way they look and never once had a thought that they were going to be my ultimate self defense weapon. I also have a couple of SBR rifles and quite honestly if I felt that I needed to bail out the back door and take on an intruder, I would ten times rather use my AR15 SBR with the suppressor over any 9mm semi auto sub gun clone. They are fun to shoot though, and I love pulling them out and blasting away. The Uzi and MAC10 get tons of attention at the range. I have been impressed with the long range accuracy of the CZ Scorpion and the AP5 using a RDS. I think too many people have the mindset that every gun they have just has to fit into some kind of defense role, instead of having some guns just because you want to have a bit of fun shooting them.

July 25, 2022, 08:38 AM	#66
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	hmmmmm It's akin to letting a door-to-door salesman getting his foot in your door. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 25, 2022, 01:51 PM	#67
Alan0354 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2021 Posts: 541	Well I can think of a few reasons to own those: 1) I can tell people I own one. 2) It looks mean!! 3) Show off to people!! Honestly, for self defense, I don't see any reason.

July 25, 2022, 05:31 PM	#68
CUBAN REDNECK Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: SW FLORIDA Posts: 318	I've shot all three, with the Uzi and the Mac being in full-auto. The TEC-9 is basically garbage. I would take the Uzi and Mac any day of the week. If I had the money I'd get a $200 tax stamp and $10-20K plus and buy the Uzi and a Mac. The Uzi and Mac are easy to manipulate, shoot, conceal, and carry. The open bolt on both the Uzi and the Mac are not an issue, IMHO.