Obatex Black Powder From South Africa Is The Fastest

arcticap · January 17, 2019, 03:21 PM

A South African company is making a black powder that's faster than Swiss.
The FFF is so light and fluffy that an equal volume only weighs about 1/2 as much as other powders,
and an equal weight and/or volume is generally faster than all other powders by about 200 FPS or more.
The manufacturer recommends only loading 1/2 as much by weight until a person can work up their load by volume.

"In comparison to weight and volume it was clear that Obatex is as a general rule a lot faster than Wano and Swiss.
No more than 55% of your loads for Swiss or 50% for Wano should be shot with this Obatex.
If the same equivalent by weight is used, the velocity is much too high and the extremely fast ignition will burn
through the nipple very quickly, leading to other possible damage on your firearms."

See velocity comparison test data:--->>> https://www.bpsu.co.za/BPSU_Newsflas...0of%202016.pdf

Obatex tested in BPCR:--->>> https://www.bpsu.co.za/Obatex%202%20...%20numbers.pdf

Obatex tested in .45 acp:--->>> https://www.bpsu.co.za/Obatex%203%20...ber%202017.pdf

deerslayer303 · January 17, 2019, 04:40 PM

Wow, very interesting. So when are they shipping to the states? lol

Hawg · January 17, 2019, 06:26 PM

500 grains? That can would be about the size of a small aspirin bottle.

Oliver Sudden · January 17, 2019, 07:06 PM

I’d guess that’s 500 grams. 453.59 grams = 1 pound

**4V50 Gary** · January 17, 2019, 10:00 PM

So what did they do to make it lighter?

Hawg · January 18, 2019, 12:06 AM

Quote:

I’d guess that’s 500 grams. 453.59 grams = 1 pound

One track mind.

noelf2 · January 18, 2019, 08:39 AM

I'd like to know the ingredients. Probably not using the traditional stuff. Maybe it's trailboss with black dye??

Jim Watson · January 18, 2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

So what did they do to make it lighter?

The leading theory is that they use a very light wood approaching balsa for the charcoal.
The only thing I can see wrong with that is that traditional gunpowder is 15% charcoal and if you replace it with helium that is not going to reduce the powder density by half.

Centurion · January 18, 2019, 10:40 AM

That is the key point. I use to make my own powder and changing the charcoal from one wood to another is possible, but I must to change the proportions accordingly. Charcoal is what is converted into gases, so incredibly as it could seem...changing from a hard or even a mild wood as willow to a lighter or softer one, you will reduce overall weight of the final mixture.

maillemaker · January 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

You also get lighter powder if you don't corn it with pressure mills.

Steve

Centurion · January 18, 2019, 11:08 AM

That is also right. But I suppose that being a manufacturing facility they do it.

Centurion · January 18, 2019, 11:16 AM

It looks like the secret could be the wood...

reinert · January 18, 2019, 11:20 AM

This is the first that I've ever heard of the obatex, b.p. propellent. Very interesting and the story behind it is quite interesting, too. I've never gotten on the website (below) before, but it gives some insight into "world" m.l.s and the restrictions we don't have to deal with here in the U.S., today anyway. The comments on obatex powder is right below the beautiful English patterned flinter with the containers of standard GOEX and Olde Eynsford. the $180.00 per pound comment was a brow-raiser, too. The article is over a year old, too, so I guess this powder has had some time to be usage proven, especially in a country under some serious, harsh restrictions regarding their import of sporting powders. Looks like the powder may be restricted to South Africa's usage only(?) I didn't see any exporting comments on the powder; may have missed it.

www.namlhunt.com/all-things-ml/archives/08-2017

Pahoo · January 18, 2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:

I'd like to know the ingredients. Probably not using the traditional stuff. Maybe it's trailboss with black dye??

True BP is classified as a Class-A explosive where it's replacements are classified as a Combustible mixtures. True BP, has qualities that replacements are "trying" to equal and lots of luck with that. ….

When I first got started in this great adventure, I read where "Willow" made the best Charcoal, we along with the other ingredients went out and bought it. We could not corn it so finally stopped playing with making it and just bought it as well.. …

If it's true BP, it will say so, Otherwise it will list "replacement" …

Be Safe !!!

Jim Watson · January 18, 2019, 01:11 PM

Somebody turned up a source that said Obatex was using willow charcoal, a good traditional ingredient.

noelf2 · January 18, 2019, 01:15 PM

Quote:

If it's true BP, it will say so, Otherwise it will list "replacement" …

I imagine that would be a rule here, but S. Africa? Who knows for sure...?

Pahoo · January 18, 2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

I imagine that would be a rule here, but S. Africa? Who knows for sure...?

That may be true but once it crosses our border, it will comply with our laws.

Wait, that may not be true either …..

Be Safe !!!

bamaranger · January 19, 2019, 02:26 AM

So the old adage, load BP only by volume, would especially apply to Obatek. And expect higher velocity as well.

I'm not sure why I would want to use the stuff, especially in a traditional side lock gun.

noelf2 · January 19, 2019, 09:28 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure why I would want to use the stuff, especially in a traditional side lock gun.

Except for fast lock time for flintlocks, perhaps..?

Jim Watson · January 19, 2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

So the old adage, load BP only by volume, would especially apply to Obatek. And expect higher velocity as well.

They specifically recommend loading by weight, just like the Sharps Rifle Co, ca 1880. But starting with half the charge weight as for other brands.

Quote:

I imagine that would be a rule here, but S. Africa? Who knows for sure...?

Never mind RSA, if it has been passed by the MLAIC, I'm betting it's the real thing.

bladesmith 1 · January 19, 2019, 01:57 PM

Is there something wrong with the lock time of a flintlock ? Back in the 70s or so Don Davis use to write in a weekly publication, Shotgun World or something. He had high speed photos of a flintlock and a percussion lock going off. It wasn't humanly possible to tell the difference. A well tuned flint works just great.

bamaranger · January 19, 2019, 07:15 PM

I was not aware of the Sharps Co advice, but........could that specifically apply to cartridge guns? Seems like I've read that T/C (in their ML manuals) always recommended by volume?

If one ONLY loaded by volume, as done most frequently with a sidelock, how could you adapt to Obtex? Load only half the volume? My measures do not go low enough for half charges of some of my existing loads in certain calibers.

Not picking a fight, just confused.

Again, why would I want to use Obatex in a side lock? Is it cartridge gun intended?

bamaranger · January 19, 2019, 07:17 PM

Decided not to go down that path on this post, as it would sidetrack the discussion in all likelihood.

Jim Watson · January 19, 2019, 07:47 PM

Of course Sharps was referring to their breechloaders, I just use the quote as a counterargument to the "grains volume" nonsense on the internet.

Obatex specifically recommends STARTING with half the usual Other Brand charge weight in muzzleloaders and adjusting to give desired performance. No reason you could not recalibrate your volume measure once you have gotten back where you started.
Bear in mind that this is in a country way off the usual trade routes and frequently embargoed for political philosophy. Domestic manufacture is a great advantage and just duplicating the old stuff was of no great importance.

Rachen · March 4, 2019, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Maybe it's trailboss with black dye??

I snorted when I read that. LOL

It would be great if they can get some to sell in the States too. I love getting 1000+ FPS from my 1858 in cap and ball mode and I reckon it would be good stuff also to charge the rounds for my .357 Vaquero.

January 17, 2019, 04:40 PM	#2
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	Wow, very interesting. So when are they shipping to the states? lol __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

January 17, 2019, 10:00 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	So what did they do to make it lighter? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 18, 2019, 08:39 AM	#7
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	I'd like to know the ingredients. Probably not using the traditional stuff. Maybe it's trailboss with black dye?? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

January 19, 2019, 02:26 AM	#18
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	by volume So the old adage, load BP only by volume, would especially apply to Obatek. And expect higher velocity as well. I'm not sure why I would want to use the stuff, especially in a traditional side lock gun.

January 19, 2019, 07:15 PM	#22
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	weight v. volume.........percussion v. flint I was not aware of the Sharps Co advice, but........could that specifically apply to cartridge guns? Seems like I've read that T/C (in their ML manuals) always recommended by volume? If one ONLY loaded by volume, as done most frequently with a sidelock, how could you adapt to Obtex? Load only half the volume? My measures do not go low enough for half charges of some of my existing loads in certain calibers. Not picking a fight, just confused. Again, why would I want to use Obatex in a side lock? Is it cartridge gun intended?

January 17, 2019, 06:26 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	500 grains? That can would be about the size of a small aspirin bottle.

January 17, 2019, 07:06 PM	#4
Oliver Sudden Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 272	I’d guess that’s 500 grams. 453.59 grams = 1 pound

January 18, 2019, 10:40 AM	#9
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	That is the key point. I use to make my own powder and changing the charcoal from one wood to another is possible, but I must to change the proportions accordingly. Charcoal is what is converted into gases, so incredibly as it could seem...changing from a hard or even a mild wood as willow to a lighter or softer one, you will reduce overall weight of the final mixture.

January 18, 2019, 11:01 AM	#10
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	You also get lighter powder if you don't corn it with pressure mills. Steve

January 18, 2019, 11:08 AM	#11
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	That is also right. But I suppose that being a manufacturing facility they do it.

January 18, 2019, 11:20 AM	#13
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	This is the first that I've ever heard of the obatex, b.p. propellent. Very interesting and the story behind it is quite interesting, too. I've never gotten on the website (below) before, but it gives some insight into "world" m.l.s and the restrictions we don't have to deal with here in the U.S., today anyway. The comments on obatex powder is right below the beautiful English patterned flinter with the containers of standard GOEX and Olde Eynsford. the $180.00 per pound comment was a brow-raiser, too. The article is over a year old, too, so I guess this powder has had some time to be usage proven, especially in a country under some serious, harsh restrictions regarding their import of sporting powders. Looks like the powder may be restricted to South Africa's usage only(?) I didn't see any exporting comments on the powder; may have missed it. www.namlhunt.com/all-things-ml/archives/08-2017

January 18, 2019, 01:11 PM	#15
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Somebody turned up a source that said Obatex was using willow charcoal, a good traditional ingredient.

January 19, 2019, 01:57 PM	#21
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	Is there something wrong with the lock time of a flintlock ? Back in the 70s or so Don Davis use to write in a weekly publication, Shotgun World or something. He had high speed photos of a flintlock and a percussion lock going off. It wasn't humanly possible to tell the difference. A well tuned flint works just great.

January 19, 2019, 07:17 PM	#23
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	flint & caps Decided not to go down that path on this post, as it would sidetrack the discussion in all likelihood.

January 19, 2019, 07:47 PM	#24
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Of course Sharps was referring to their breechloaders, I just use the quote as a counterargument to the "grains volume" nonsense on the internet. Obatex specifically recommends STARTING with half the usual Other Brand charge weight in muzzleloaders and adjusting to give desired performance. No reason you could not recalibrate your volume measure once you have gotten back where you started. Bear in mind that this is in a country way off the usual trade routes and frequently embargoed for political philosophy. Domestic manufacture is a great advantage and just duplicating the old stuff was of no great importance.