Please explain a strange malfunction

gbclarkson · November 11, 2017, 08:22 PM

My Bersa BP9cc had a failure to feed with the 2nd round, consistently. It happened 6 times consecutively from 3 different magazines using two types FMJ ammo. The first chambered round would fire and the 2nd round would get hung up at the bottom of the feed ramp. The gun experienced no other malfunctions. I have owned the gun for ~3 years and it is sufficiently broken in.

I really like the size and trigger on this pistol but I think I am almost done with it. It has already been to a warranty center for reliability issues and I don't want to pay for another round of shipping. It is about to be someone else's problem. Hey, at least it's predictable now.

Can anyone explain this malfunction?

HighValleyRanch · November 11, 2017, 08:33 PM

Is the first round chambered and then the magazine topped off, or is the first round being fed from the magazine and then the second one fails to feed.

If the first round is already chambered, and then the top round in the magazine is misfeeding, then perhaps it could be related to the tension in the mag spring with a full magazine causing the round to misfeed. Maybe try with one less round in the magazine to see if it still occurs.

TunnelRat · November 11, 2017, 09:31 PM

You say you have had it for 3 years. Did it just start doing this?

gbclarkson · November 12, 2017, 10:06 AM

Quote:

You say you have had it for 3 years. Did it just start doing this?

Yesterday was the first range session with this gun. It has been hibernating in the safe for 6-7 months. I trusted it as my cold weather CC after its voyage to the warranty center, so yes: it just started doing this.

Quote:

If the first round is already chambered, and then the top round in the magazine is misfeeding, then perhaps it could be related to the tension in the mag spring with a full magazine causing the round to misfeed. Maybe try with one less round in the magazine to see if it still occurs.

I loaded a full magazine with the slide open, closed the slide with the slide release and then fired. I did not remove the mags to top them off. I should have experimented with different loadings but discontinued out of frustration. By the way, the magazines have different round counts. Two came with the gun and I added the third about 2 years after.

Walt Sherrill · November 12, 2017, 10:15 AM

Hung up at the bottom of the feed ramp? Where, exactly, and will it do it when you manually FEED a round?

Are you shooting normal round nose ammo, or are us using hollow point? (Some hollow point ammo will dig into the ramp and stop things cold.)

Could your recoil spring be getting weak. (Is it a lot esier to rack the slide than it used to be, for example?) If it's too weak, the gun will extract and eject the fired round but arguably not have enough force stored to properly feed the next one.

If you manually cycle the gun (slowly) do you see the same sort of snag or catch in the process?

marine6680 · November 12, 2017, 12:48 PM

Weak mag spring, or the slide velocity is a bit fast for some reason.

Other than that... Dirty or not enough lubrication. Maybe a dirty mag making the rounds not pop up fast enough.

All I got at the moment.

fastbolt · November 12, 2017, 01:28 PM

Normal things to consider are typically the shooter, the ammo and the gun.

Shooter - Grip and maintenance. Properly firm and stable grip/wrist lock? Lubrication?

Ammo - What brand and quality? Power level? Sometimes a particular budget, low-cost load might also be at the marginal end of the "power" needed to properly cycle the slide & barrel, and not have the necessary amount of "power" to reliably cycle the pistol.

Gun - Anything appear out of normal? What was "repaired/corrected" by the gun company before you stored the gun in the safe? How many rounds had been fired to confirm repair (by you) upon receipt of the repaired gun? Was the repair actually sufficient to correct the previous observed "problem"?

More than one of these influences may be present and responsible, to some degree, at the same time. (Unlubed gun, low-powered ammo and the shooter not using a sufficiently firm grip & locked wrist, especially when not having fired the gun for an extended period.)

Presuming (meaning "if") the earlier repair attempt actually corrected whatever was previously causing you a problem, and nothing appears out-of-spec or improper with the gun, a next step might be to clean and re-lubricate the gun (per manual instructions), and consider using a different brand/line of quality ammunition. If the problem persists (and especially if it exists with multiple magazines and at least a couple of brands of ammo), then perhaps a call to the gun company's customer support is in order.

As pistols can smaller and lighter, and especially when the slides get shorter & lighter and the recoil springs/assemblies also get shorter, they may become a bit more "sensitive" to both "shooter" and "ammo" influences.

Dunno, Just some thoughts. It's not really possible to "diagnose" a problem online.

However, one of the old sayings among LE firearm instructors and armorers is that on any given day, maybe 95% of all reported "gun problems" are actually shooter-related problems (something the shooter is doing incorrectly, or not doing but should be doing), and maybe 3%-4% caused by ammo, and maybe 1%-2% caused by an actual gun problem.

Tactical Jackalope · November 12, 2017, 04:04 PM

I apologize greatly in advance. I'm just going to come out with it.

You purchased a Bersa. I've seen a great number of them suffer catastrophic failures from just plain indoor range shooting with a low round count. Primarily the extractors.

I'd suggest ditching it.

SA1911 · November 12, 2017, 04:26 PM

Hi gbclarkson,

My most sincere condolences upon your feeding problem. I have deep empathy for you, as I'm sure it's most frustrating.

If you like your handgun, and it feels perfect in your hand, I'd find a good smith to diagnose cause and perform repair.

I wish you the absolute best.

November 11, 2017, 08:22 PM	#1
gbclarkson Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: None of yer business, sonny Posts: 440	Please explain a strange malfunction My Bersa BP9cc had a failure to feed with the 2nd round, consistently. It happened 6 times consecutively from 3 different magazines using two types FMJ ammo. The first chambered round would fire and the 2nd round would get hung up at the bottom of the feed ramp. The gun experienced no other malfunctions. I have owned the gun for ~3 years and it is sufficiently broken in. I really like the size and trigger on this pistol but I think I am almost done with it. It has already been to a warranty center for reliability issues and I don't want to pay for another round of shipping. It is about to be someone else's problem. Hey, at least it's predictable now. Can anyone explain this malfunction?

November 11, 2017, 08:33 PM	#2
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,065	Is the first round chambered and then the magazine topped off, or is the first round being fed from the magazine and then the second one fails to feed. If the first round is already chambered, and then the top round in the magazine is misfeeding, then perhaps it could be related to the tension in the mag spring with a full magazine causing the round to misfeed. Maybe try with one less round in the magazine to see if it still occurs. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

November 11, 2017, 09:31 PM	#3
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,204	You say you have had it for 3 years. Did it just start doing this? __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

November 12, 2017, 01:28 PM	#7
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	Normal things to consider are typically the shooter, the ammo and the gun. Shooter - Grip and maintenance. Properly firm and stable grip/wrist lock? Lubrication? Ammo - What brand and quality? Power level? Sometimes a particular budget, low-cost load might also be at the marginal end of the "power" needed to properly cycle the slide & barrel, and not have the necessary amount of "power" to reliably cycle the pistol. Gun - Anything appear out of normal? What was "repaired/corrected" by the gun company before you stored the gun in the safe? How many rounds had been fired to confirm repair (by you) upon receipt of the repaired gun? Was the repair actually sufficient to correct the previous observed "problem"? More than one of these influences may be present and responsible, to some degree, at the same time. (Unlubed gun, low-powered ammo and the shooter not using a sufficiently firm grip & locked wrist, especially when not having fired the gun for an extended period.) Presuming (meaning "if") the earlier repair attempt actually corrected whatever was previously causing you a problem, and nothing appears out-of-spec or improper with the gun, a next step might be to clean and re-lubricate the gun (per manual instructions), and consider using a different brand/line of quality ammunition. If the problem persists (and especially if it exists with multiple magazines and at least a couple of brands of ammo), then perhaps a call to the gun company's customer support is in order. As pistols can smaller and lighter, and especially when the slides get shorter & lighter and the recoil springs/assemblies also get shorter, they may become a bit more "sensitive" to both "shooter" and "ammo" influences. Dunno, Just some thoughts. It's not really possible to "diagnose" a problem online. However, one of the old sayings among LE firearm instructors and armorers is that on any given day, maybe 95% of all reported "gun problems" are actually shooter-related problems (something the shooter is doing incorrectly, or not doing but should be doing), and maybe 3%-4% caused by ammo, and maybe 1%-2% caused by an actual gun problem. __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer

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November 12, 2017, 10:15 AM	#5
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	Hung up at the bottom of the feed ramp? Where, exactly, and will it do it when you manually FEED a round? Are you shooting normal round nose ammo, or are us using hollow point? (Some hollow point ammo will dig into the ramp and stop things cold.) Could your recoil spring be getting weak. (Is it a lot esier to rack the slide than it used to be, for example?) If it's too weak, the gun will extract and eject the fired round but arguably not have enough force stored to properly feed the next one. If you manually cycle the gun (slowly) do you see the same sort of snag or catch in the process?

November 12, 2017, 12:48 PM	#6
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Weak mag spring, or the slide velocity is a bit fast for some reason. Other than that... Dirty or not enough lubrication. Maybe a dirty mag making the rounds not pop up fast enough. All I got at the moment.

November 12, 2017, 04:04 PM	#8
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I apologize greatly in advance. I'm just going to come out with it. You purchased a Bersa. I've seen a great number of them suffer catastrophic failures from just plain indoor range shooting with a low round count. Primarily the extractors. I'd suggest ditching it.

November 12, 2017, 04:26 PM	#9
SA1911 Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2017 Posts: 147	Hi gbclarkson, My most sincere condolences upon your feeding problem. I have deep empathy for you, as I'm sure it's most frustrating. If you like your handgun, and it feels perfect in your hand, I'd find a good smith to diagnose cause and perform repair. I wish you the absolute best.