22-250 issue

[mw0248]

I inherited a like new Remington 22-250, model 799 (zastiva);

it shoots 1.5 in. groups at 100 yds; i own an old rem. model 788 that shoots .10 to .20 in. groups;

new cases resized, 40 grains of H414, sierra 52 grain HP, OAL is exactly 2.35;

I measured the chamber with OAL guage, and discovered that my chamber max. OAL to touching the lands is 2.535;

so my bullet jump is .18 in! not good;

I reloaded a round to OAL of 2.515 (gives me a jump of .020),
and guess what: it wont fit into the magazine, which is a steel box inside the stock;

I am contemplating cutting the front center of the box out, and reaming the stock to allow my rounds to fit;

any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated;

Mike W. (mw0248)

[marchboom]

Doesn't sound like you have very much of the bullet in the case neck. I would take off the barrel and have it rechambered for a cartridge that gives you a proper fit (close OAL) with the bullet in the case a sufficient amount to hold it properly.

[sako2]

I would seat them to fit the magazine before cutting things up.

[scatterbrain]

MWo248, more than likely your gun will handle the 80-85 grain bullets that mine won't. Back in the day, .224 calibler rifles were chambered to fit up to about 60 grainers. Bullet jump won't always hurt accuracy. I have a Rem 700 in 30-06 that is chambered, as always , to handle 220 grain round nose bullets. Talk about bullet jump with any spiral point bullet. What's the barrel twist in your rifle, mine are 12 and 14, made to shoot the 55 and lighter bullets.

[Unclenick]

[QUOTEmw0248]so my bullet jump is .18 in! not good;

I reloaded a round to OAL of 2.515 (gives me a jump of .020)[/QUOTE]

The ideas that 0.180" is necessarily bad and 0.020" is necessarily good are wive's tales. Most of the benefit of being close to or touching the lands is better bullet alignment. But if you load cartridges without eccentric runout in the first place, it makes much less difference and sometimes it is worse.

Dan Hackett described a 40X in 220 Swift that averaged half inch groups no matter what he did to his charge was or what brand of bullet he used. He was seating 0.020" off the lands because everyone knew it was a "best" number. Then one day, when changing to a Nosler BT, he accidentally turned his seating die's micrometer adjustment the wrong way and instead of the 0.015" shorter (base to ogive) bullets being seated 0.020" off the lands they were seated to 0.050" off the lands. He didn't discover the error until he was 20 rounds in, but rather than pull and reseat he decided just to shoot the rounds in practice. When he did, the groups averaged about 0.2".

Read item 3. of this old page. Read Berger on this topic.

You could get a new barrel or, if you don't mind losing an inch or so, your existing barrel can be set back and reamed with a reamer that has a shorter freebore. Remington is famous for producing some really long freebores, so their reamers are apparently their own design and not to the SAAMI standard.

[mw0248]

my twist is 1:14;
it wont shoot anything over 55 grains with any accuracy

thanks for the responses: will play with it some more

[David R]

Can you single load them and see how they shoot before chopping things up?

David

[44 AMP]

my twist is 1:14;
it wont shoot anything over 55 grains with any accuracy

have you tested this?? Have you shot other loads 50-55grs, other bullets, other powders/charges to see if there is something your rifle likes better?


I have a Win M70 with the standard "slow" twist. 3/4" groups with 52,53gr bullets, 1.5" with 63gr semi spitzers. That bullet is not good for prairie dogs but minute of deer accurate, which is the point.

Also, consider for a moment if your expectations for that rifle are realistic. There's a LOT more involved than just how close to the lands you can seat a desired bullet. Sights, trigger, barrel, action, bedding, and the shooter themselves, to name just a few...

Good Luck, and I hope something you try does improve things for you, but be aware that no matter what you do, you might not get the improvement you're looking for. Some rifles just won't do better until you turn them into different rifles.

[Scorch]

Easiest way to fix the bullet jump issue is to have a smith cut of the threads, rethread and rechamber the barrel to give you the bullet jump you are looking for. I think you should do some load testing, though. Seat bullets to varying depths and find out how each load shoots.

[Mobuck]

Load to max mag length and live with it. The 799 action and magwell is marginal for 22/250 length cartridges.

[old roper]

mw0248, As Scorch mentioned do some testing and if accuracy improves have barrel set back. Does your 22-250 have 20" barrel?

[F. Guffey]

Came across this problem a few years ago; to determine the free bore I pushed a bullet out of the case and into the throat, the bullet came out of the case and skidded for a while and then finally hit the rifling. The builder of the rifle wanted to know what caused the problem; he built 4 rifles with the same type receiver and barrel and he made the reamer. I had to say I do not know, "you asked me what was wrong with the rifle".

The cheap fix was to chamber the rifle for a longer chamber; problem, all of the ' fixes' required wood and metal work, I suggested another barrel or set the barrel back; problem, setting the barrel back would created a gap between the barrel and barrel channel. None of these problems became my problems.

We loaded 100 rounds with different weight and length bullets and found there was one loading that was accurate, I do not know what happen to the rifle after he left, he never said.

F. Guffey

[T. O'Heir]

"...it wont fit into the magazine..." SAAMI max OAL for .22-250 is the 2.350". Forget the off-the-lands stuff until you have worked up a load. The off-the-lands stuff is a load tweaking technique that isn't necessary. It's not measured from the point to the flat either. That's where ogives come in.
That 40.0 of H414 is the max load for a 52 grain bullet too. You work up to that or just pick it? You must work up the load.
"...my twist is 1:14..." How'd you decide that? It's rumoured(doesn't seem to be published anywhere) to be 1 in 12. Either way you need to try some different powders and bullet weight. But load 'em to the 2.350" and forget about the lands. Once you find the load, then you can fiddle with the OAL if you feel like it. It's a time consuming, 100% trial and error thing though. Every rifle likes a different distance off-the-lands and there is no formula or set distance.

[jaguarxk120]

Why doe's the loaded round have to fit into the magazine?

[Mobuck]

"Why doe's the loaded round have to fit into the magazine?"
It's ASSumed the OP was expecting a repeater.

[Jim Watson]

I wasn't.
My 77V has a single shot adapter in the magazine. It is a target rifle and I sure don't do rapid fire with it.
This is a common Internet Issue.
Does a target rifle have to be a repeater?
Does a hunting rifle have to have benchrest load development?

Oh, yeah; 40 gr H414 shoots like a champ.

[jaguarxk120]

My 77T and 700V rifles both have the Score High Bench Rest Followers installed. Making both rifles single shots.
Hunting PD's never had the need to use the magazine either rifle.

[BWM]

The 788 was one of the very best rim fired gun made they all shot less than 1/2 in at 100yd my 243 and my 223 shot a 1/4 at a 100yd some time it shoot one hole with 3 shoots

[Scorch]

Oh, yeah; 40 gr H414 shoots like a champ.

Yep. I shoot 40.1 grains of WW760 under a Hornady 55 grain. Essentially the same load. Shoots really well.

The Remington 799 rifles are the same as the lightweight Mini-Mausers once sold by Interarms and Charles Daly. I never had a problem with any of mine, but they are not chambered for 22-250.