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Old October 10, 2018, 09:05 PM   #1
Mike38
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A true .314 swaged hollow base wad cutter?

Is there a bullet company (besides Lapua) that makes a TRUE .314 diameter swaged hollow base wad cutter bullet in ~80 to ~100 grains? Not one that is labeled as .314, one that is a TRUE .314 diameter. Speer makes one labeled as .314, but it's not, it actually measures .313. I contacted Speer, and they don't seem to care. The bullets by Lapua actually measure .314. But, my pistol doesn't like them. I'm looking for something with the accuracy required to shoot less than 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Lapua doesn't cut it for me. There's an European company, H&N, that makes extremely accurate .314 swaged wad cutters, but they are no longer available in the USA.

I've been told that the Speer bullet can be "bumped up" in a special die to .314-.3145 and they work great. But the device to preform this act costs more than I'm willing to spend, that is until I exhaust all available options.

Recapping: TRUE .314 diameter swaged hollow base wad cutter in 80 to 100 grains.

Thanks.
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Old October 10, 2018, 09:14 PM   #2
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If you can get your hands on some NOS Hornady 90 gr HBWCs, they're generally well over advertised diameter (likely due to knurling variances).
But, of course, replacement is unlikely if you do obtain and like them, since they have been discontinued.


Or...
Cast your own.
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Old October 12, 2018, 11:18 AM   #3
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I'll back up what both you and FrankenMauser said... I have both the Speer 98gr and the Hornady 90's and I just put the micrometer on a few of each and indeed, the Speer tells me .313" and the Hornady says .314 or .3145.
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But, my pistol doesn't like them. I'm looking for something with the accuracy required to shoot less than 3 inch groups at 50 yards.
I would assume that you are active on the Bullseye-L forums? I had always gotten the impression that the .32 is definitely capable at 25 yards but most shun it at distances beyond that for the purpose of pure Bullseye.

I'm curious what gun you're trying to feed? I've got a Walther GSP that has been extremely enjoyable and I've used both slugs in it, but I don't have the pure Bullseye ability that you guys have, so it's silly for me to even suggest which has shot better for me, because I'm simply not qualified to give that report.

I just got a hold of a 6-inch S&W 16-4 and I'm looking forward to seeing how that one rolls.

As for the Hornady swaged .314", like any product from a big-name maker that is discontinued... you should definitely still be able to find them in some dusty old gun shops and on the gun show circuit.
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Old October 12, 2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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Gotta wonder what 32 pistol is used for target at 50 yards. If this is 327 Federal Magnum, I have some ideas for you.
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Old October 12, 2018, 06:07 PM   #5
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The rules for the centerfire stage of NRA Conventional Pistol allow any centerfire chambering to be used, but bull's eye weapons in 32 caliber are not just part of the American target shooting scene, but are also used in International Match competitions and they are all .32 Long. The GSP has switch-barrels so its receiver may be used in .22 rimfire as well as in .32 matches, a nod to countries whose gun laws don't allow their citizens to own more than one handgun. AFAIK, the only. 32 caliber match ammunition made and sold commercially is .32 Long wadcutter match ammunition.


Mike38,

Have you looked at cast wadcutters? With .38 wadcutters, I found the Lee Tumble Lube design cut groups from my K38 in half as compared to any of several brands of HBWC match loads. I don't believe they make a .32 wadcutter mold now, but you could get them to make one special if you are motivated enough to handle the tooling charge. Their six-cavity molds are quite successful in my experience. But before I did that I would first try just loading their 90 grain SWC design backwards and flush with the case mouth.
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Old October 13, 2018, 09:44 PM   #6
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The pistol I have is a Benelli MP95 Atlanta, and yes, Precision Pistol (Bullseye Pistol) . Reports from those "in the know" tell me the H&N bullets will easily hold the 10 ring (< 3 inch) at 50 yards. The resized Speer bullets are very close to that. But the Speer bullets as received, you'd be lucky to get 6 inch groups. I did find a place called Bob's Bullets on the web and contacted them about making some at .314 for me. They are willing, but I have to buy a minimum of 2000 pcs. because they would have to buy a die. If they work, great, but if not, I'd be stuck with a very heavy paper weight. Gun show coming up in 3 weeks, maybe I'll get lucky and find some of those Hornady bullets.
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Old October 13, 2018, 09:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Have you looked at cast wadcutters?
Considering. Penn Bullets makes a .32 wadcutter bullet in .313, with special order sizes of .311, .312, and .314. I just may have to try a box to see how they work.

I did buy a box of coated hard cast .313 from a local maker, Standard Bullet Company, and the results were poor. Not saying anything bad about the company, because I have excellent results with their coated .358 bullets for my .38 Spcl.
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:47 AM   #8
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"The Benelli MP 95E or Benelli MP95 Atlanta is a precision target shooting pistol designed for the 25 metre pistol and 25 metre rapid fire pistol ISSF shooting events. It is manufactured by Benelli Armi SpA of Italy. Available calibers are .22 LR and .32 S&W Long Wadcutter." -Wikipedia

I am posting this because of my skepticism about shooting a small caliber pistol at 50 yards, free standing, no optics.
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Last edited by Real Gun; October 14, 2018 at 11:37 AM.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:11 AM   #9
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Why are you skeptical? It is done every day although not as much in this speed crazy century as it used to be.

I can't advise on the choice of a .32 wadcutter but will point out the trivia that Pardini makes a .32 ACP target pistol. Hornady XTPs are reported to shoot accurately from it.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:39 AM   #10
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Real Gun, the standard course of fire for Precision Pistol (nee, Conventional Pistol, nee Bull's-eye Pistol, nee just Pistol Matches (from before there were "practical' matches)) is a slow fire target at 50 yards and timed and rapid fire targets at 25 yards. This was always fired with iron sights from its inception in the 1930's until Aimpoint and other optical sights started to become more common in the 1980's. The CMP match rules still require iron sights. The discipline requires you to shoot off-hand (one-hand hold).

People only think this sport is impossible because they haven't tried it. It usually takes newbies a couple or three seasons to get to where you can begin to stay in the black at 50 yards most of the time. It takes guns capable of shooting with match accuracy, which many people don't have these days. I shot these matches with iron sights for a couple of decades and think a lot of practical shooters would benefit from adding the discipline to their repertoire. It would give them a whole new appreciation for the importance of sight picture.


Mike38,

The reason I suggested Tumble Lube bullets is they come out of the mold slightly oversize, to begin with. I shoot them in the .38 without any sizing. Works quite well. I know I've seen some of them available from a commercial maker someplace, but can't find them at the moment.
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Old October 14, 2018, 11:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
I'm looking for something with the accuracy required to shoot less than 3 inch groups at 50 yards.
Yeah but who sees well enough at 50 yards and has a consistent enough and steady sight picture, one handed and free standing, to worry about a 3" group? That would be really impressive and unusual, I think, since I can't imagine doing it with more than pure luck. 25 yards would be a different matter and wouldn't require freakish eye sight.
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Old October 14, 2018, 11:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
Why are you skeptical? It is done every day although not as much in this speed crazy century as it used to be.
Gun ranges I know are only 20-25 yards. Handguns are not allowed on the rifle range. I think "done everyday" is overstating it re 50 yard shooting. I will say though that I don't know how big a target or bullseye is used at that range.
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Old October 14, 2018, 12:01 PM   #13
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"...what 32 pistol is used for target at 50 yards..." Lots of 'em. Walthers, Hämmerli/SIG, Pardini, etc, etc. Cheap they ain't either. Friggin' things ran around 2 grand up here 30 years ago.
"...think "done everyday" is overstating..." Nope. Like Nick says, NRA Precision may not be every day, but it'd be every Saturday for sure. Ranges in SC may not be NRA affiliated. Too many NASCAR tracks cluttering things up. snicker.
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Old October 14, 2018, 01:51 PM   #14
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The NRA Bullseye Pistol match held closer then 2 1/2 hours drive is held once a month in North Carolina, April to October.
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:01 PM   #15
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50 yard slow fire, printed in black. 21" x 24", 8" black center.

Midway target listing and pic

Given an 8" black image in a 50 yard sight picture, I can imagine being able to hit it.
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Old October 14, 2018, 05:21 PM   #16
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Real Gun,

The 50 yard slow fire 10 ring is 3.36" in diameter. People clean those targets all the time. Freakish vision is not required as your focus is on the front sight.
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Old October 14, 2018, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
I am posting this because of my skepticism about shooting a small caliber pistol at 50 yards, free standing, no optics.
The National record holder, a Mr. H.L. Anderson shot a 2680-159x back in 1974 using open (iron) sights. Best possible score would be 2700, so he only dropped 20 points. A long standing record, that may never get broken, even with high dollar optics used today.

Commonly, the match consists of 90 shots with a .22, 90 shots with a centerfire, and 90 shots with a .45. Most people use a .45 for the centerfire portion of the match, but years ago the most common centerfire pistol was a .38spcl. Of the 270 shots in the match, 90 of them are at 50 yards. It's very doable to at least hit the 50 yard scoring rings with the proper training and discipline. But to break 2600, that takes some serious talent.
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Old Yesterday, 02:00 PM   #18
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Just cast your own.

---

Real Gun -
Just because you don't believe, can't do it yourself, and can't understand what's being said to you, doesn't mean that it's fiction.

Instead of attempting to pick ridiculous and strange arguments, you should move along...
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Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Just cast your own.

---

Real Gun -
Just because you don't believe, can't do it yourself, and can't understand what's being said to you, doesn't mean that it's fiction.

Instead of attempting to pick ridiculous and strange arguments, you should move along...
My ignorance of the subject doesn't warrant a personal attack. I am grateful to others for their patience and my new found knowledge.
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Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM   #20
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It's not a personal attack.
The competition is real. The capabilities of the shooters are real. People told you, repeatedly, that it was real.
But you kept coming back with replies indicating that you believed the other posters in the thread to be half a step away from a collection of liars.
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 PM   #21
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Let's not get the hackles up. Incredulity is not the same thing as an accusation. If you told someone who'd never seen it that a person could cross the Grand Canyon on a tightrope with no net, you could not fault them for having some healthy skepticism initially. The fun thing about this particular topic is a whole range of new possible capabilities just opened up for him.
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Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM   #22
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Fair enough.
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