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Old October 13, 2018, 10:45 PM   #1
TruthTellers
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.357 velocities in Ruger LCR

There's been a few videos uploaded to Youtube on 9mm vs .357 in a snub revolver and it seems every .357 used to test a velocity is using a 2 to 2.25 inch barrel revolver and not a 1-7/8 inch barrel like the LCR has.

I specifically ask about the .357 LCR because the only 9mm snub I know of with the exact same length barrel is the 9mm LCR.

If anyone has a link to a chart of velocities with the .357 LCR or has data that they've recorded from their tests, please share them with us here.

I feel that the 9mm LCR will be equal in velocity to the .357 LCR. It may not seem like much, but 1/8" or 1/4" shorter barrel can make a noticeable enough difference, even if it's just 20 fps less, it's less.
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:21 AM   #2
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Use Ballistics by the inch, just add the COAL length to their barrel length to get a good idea.

I.17 for the 9

1.59 for the 357

Edit, nevermind, the data for the 357, with the COAL doesn't come close enough to what you want.


http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/

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Old October 14, 2018, 10:01 AM   #3
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Use Ballistics by the inch, just add the COAL length to their barrel length to get a good idea.
BBTI is crappy data.
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Old October 14, 2018, 10:05 AM   #4
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Truth,

Every barrel is going to be a little different. I was getting 1200 fps and 1250 fps respectively with Federal 125 JHP's and WW 145 STHP's in a 1 7/8" S&W and 1350 fps with the 125's and 1375 with the 145's in my 3" model 13.
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Old October 14, 2018, 11:29 AM   #5
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1/8" of barrel won't make any difference in velocity. There is no 'VS' between .357 and 9mm Parabellum in any barrel length.
Do not pay any attention to Youtube videos. Anybody with internet access can post anything they want there.
"...the COAL length..." The Cartridge Over All Length has nothing to do with velocity either.
"...BBTI is crappy data...." What make you say that?
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Old October 14, 2018, 12:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
1/8" of barrel won't make any difference in velocity. There is no 'VS' between .357 and 9mm Parabellum in any barrel length.
Do not pay any attention to Youtube videos. Anybody with internet access can post anything they want there.
"...the COAL length..." The Cartridge Over All Length has nothing to do with velocity either.
"...BBTI is crappy data...." What make you say that?
1/4 or 3/8" can, most snubs that I see velocity tested are barrels 2-1/8 or 2-1/4 long.

Certain 9mm has been clocked going 1170 out of the LCR, which is very close to what non Buffalo Bore, Doubletap, Underwood .357 does. I factor out those Premium 3 factory ammo brands because they're extremely expensive and I don't base a cartridge's power on what a few boutique ammo brands can do for $1.50 a shot.

Now if you can point me to or have any velocity data on .357 from an LCR that shows non boutique .357 ammo is way faster than 1170, I'll change my mind that the 9mm is not as powerful as .357 in an LCR.
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Old October 14, 2018, 01:33 PM   #7
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Good comparison video by our favorite gun guy.....

https://youtu.be/CD2t_qG9dls

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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Old October 14, 2018, 01:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TruthTellers View Post
I feel that the 9mm LCR will be equal in velocity to the .357 LCR.
With similar weight projectiles? I doubt it.
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:16 PM   #9
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Okay, I've posted on my results from the LCR before, but without too much digging, here's some results with various loads from my .357 LCR

1. Ruger LCR/ Armscor .357 mag/ 966-986 fps
2. Ruger LCR/ Mag Tech #1 158 gr. .357 mag/ 1024 fps
3. Ruger LCR/ Mag Tech #2/ 986;994;1001 fps
4. Ruger LCR/ Buffalobore heavy .357 Outdoorsman, 180 gr. Keith hardcase
(their hollow points are pretty identical in loads for SD)
This is out of my 1 7/8" LCR:
1250 fps with the 180 grain keith hard cast flat nose which yields around 617 foot pounds ME!
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by buck460XVR View Post
With similar weight projectiles? I doubt it.
124gr 9mm and 125 grain .357, yes. Obviously anything higher than 124 grains in the 9mm will be super slow.

Quote:
4. Ruger LCR/ Buffalobore heavy .357 Outdoorsman, 180 gr. Keith hardcase
(their hollow points are pretty identical in loads for SD)
This is out of my 1 7/8" LCR:
1250 fps with the 180 grain keith hard cast flat nose which yields around 617 foot pounds ME!
That's boutique ammo, I'm not going to carry 180 grain .357 for use in a snub revolver, not any Buffalo Bore or Doubletap. I can't buy hundreds of rounds of that ammo to practice with and not struggle to pay my car insurance, food, rent, utilities... but I can buy hundreds of rounds of 9mm that I'll actually use when carrying an LCR and it's affordable and the performence is very good, on par with non boutique .357.
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Old October 14, 2018, 03:04 PM   #11
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If anyone has a link to a chart of velocities with the .357 LCR or has data that they've recorded from their tests, please share them with us here.

I feel that the 9mm LCR will be equal in velocity to the .357 LCR. It may not seem like much, but 1/8" or 1/4" shorter barrel can make a noticeable enough difference, even if it's just 20 fps less, it's less.
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I did as you asked, but it seems like you are trying to justify buying a 9mm over a .357 mag.
A 9mm will never equal a .357 in power. Even my boutique +P BB 9mm can't get close. Wish it did, but facts are are facts.

One doesn't have to shoot hundreds of rounds of a particular ammo to get good with it. Accuracy is accuray, no matter what the load. The great thing about a revolver is that you don't have to function test as much with various ammo's. Yes, the LCR was tested for crimp jump, but thats about all I had to do, and POI. No need to shoot hundreds of rounds to know what this "boutique" ammo is capable of.
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Old October 14, 2018, 04:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
I did as you asked, but it seems like you are trying to justify buying a 9mm over a .357 mag.
A 9mm will never equal a .357 in power. Even my boutique +P BB 9mm can't get close. Wish it did, but facts are are facts.

One doesn't have to shoot hundreds of rounds of a particular ammo to get good with it. Accuracy is accuray, no matter what the load. The great thing about a revolver is that you don't have to function test as much with various ammo's. Yes, the LCR was tested for crimp jump, but thats about all I had to do, and POI. No need to shoot hundreds of rounds to know what this "boutique" ammo is capable of.
Oh, I'm not even trying to justify a 9mm LCR over a .357, I'd never buy the .357 to begin with and have been considering the 9mm LCR as a backup gun to a 9mm pistol. Since I'm not in the least interested in a .357 snub and 9mm is far and away more powerful than .38 Special is in a snub, a 9mm LCR is perfect.

Here's the velocities one P. Harrell on Youtube clocked with his 9mm LCR, and fyi he was comparing 9mm to .38 Special.

https://youtu.be/eIsy9gg1S58?t=749

I'm gonna buy hundreds of rounds no matter what because I like to have more than enough on hand as we never know what will happen with ammo, prices, availability in the future.

A 9mm can be better than .357 in power, it just depends what ammo you're shooting. If we leave the boutique stuff out, 9mm is not far behind .357 in a sub 2" revolver.
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:35 PM   #13
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My Colt Magnum Carry with a 2" barrel shoots Remington 125 SJHP at 1255 fps. That's about 100 fps faster than a standard pressure 9mm 124 grain from a 4" barrel.

A boutique load Buffalo Bore 125 GDHP travels at 1328 fps from the same 2" Colt.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 74A95 View Post
My Colt Magnum Carry with a 2" barrel shoots Remington 125 SJHP at 1255 fps. That's about 100 fps faster than a standard pressure 9mm 124 grain from a 4" barrel.

A boutique load Buffalo Bore 125 GDHP travels at 1328 fps from the same 2" Colt.
That's definitely faster than 9mm from a 2 inch barrel. Does that mean I'd get the same with a Colt Magnum Carry 2 inch with the same ammo? Probably not, but if I could, compared to 1170 fps with a 9mm +P in the LCR, does the extra 85 fps make up for the blast, recoil, and price?

IMO, no.

I'm trying to compare apples to apples and comparing a Ruger 9mm LCR to a Colt isn't a good comparison.
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Old October 14, 2018, 10:00 PM   #15
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Probably not, but if I could, compared to 1170 fps with a 9mm +P in the LCR, does the extra 85 fps make up for the blast, recoil, and price?
where are you getting those figures from? What ammo, what load?
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Old October 14, 2018, 10:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by HighValleyRanch View Post
where are you getting those figures from? What ammo, what load?
See link in post 12, average velocity with Sig Sauer Elite Performence standard pressure 124 grain was 1160.

And check this link for a guy who lies about me on his youtube channel who put some Cor-Bon 124 grain +P through his Sig P938 and got 1170.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLDiduYlnY&t=382s

Then again, if he was willing to lie about me multiple times in his live chats, he might have been lying about the velocities in his video and he's got a bias towards .357 to boot.
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Old October 16, 2018, 02:27 PM   #17
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And check this link for a guy who lies about me on his youtube channel who put some Cor-Bon 124 grain +P through his Sig P938 and got 1170.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgLDiduYlnY&t=382s

Then again, if he was willing to lie about me multiple times in his live chats, he might have been lying about the velocities in his video and he's got a bias towards .357 to boot.
I didn't see where he lied about you in the video, but I totally agree with his logic and testings, as they are comparable to my own.

Quote:
See link in post 12, average velocity with Sig Sauer Elite Performence standard pressure 124 grain was 1160.
You are proving the point. This load calculates to only 371 foot pounts ME.
And you had to go to a +P 9mm to get that amount of energy, so the Yankee Marshalls point is valid here as you didn't want to compare it to a "boutique" .357 claiming that you can't buy a ton of it.

===================================
Since you claim you want to compare apples to apples, the fairest comparison is to use Buffalobore's own "boutique" hottest ammo for each caliber.
BB's hottest load (and this is fairly comparable to Double Tap) for the 9mm is the +P 9mm Outdoorsman which out of a 4 inch Glock (yes even from a longer barrel) yields 147 grain @ 1083 fps = 383 ft. pounds ME

Compare to my results with the .357 Outdoorsman out of my 1 7/8" LCR
yielding 180 grain @ 1246 = 621 ft. pounds ME.
Posted my testing on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8gDwX4nwuQ

CAN THERE REALLY BE A DEBATE ABOUT THIS???

Quote:
and he's got a bias towards .357 to boot
For the record, I don't have a bias towards .357....
Find me any 9mm that comes close to this.
I would love to find some myself, but facts are facts!
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Old Yesterday, 03:30 AM   #18
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I'm not debating Buffalo Bore's .357 load being more powerful with you, I'm just ignoring it because I'm never going to buy it because I have no use for a 180 grain .357 load in a snub revolver.

When am I going to need a 180 grain .357 load in a snub revolver? When I go hiking in Alaska next to Grizzly caves? If I do that, I'm leaving the .357 at home and bringing a .500 Magnum. Will I need that 180 grain .357 when I walk to the liquor store in the city at 9PM? No, because a 124 grain 9mm JHP will do a better job of protecting me than a .357 LFN that's built to penetrate, not expand.

The better comparison is the 125 grain Remington load mentioned in post 13. That 1255 fps is more realistic with non boutique ammo for CCW, but I don't think the thin line between life and death lies in an 85 fps difference, however I do want to know what the LCR can get with .357 and that's why I made this thread.
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Old Yesterday, 07:41 AM   #19
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I carry Hornady 125gr FTX 357mag in my LCR .... I have found it a managable SD load in the light LCR ... The grip on the LCR seems to dampen the recoil ...


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Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM   #20
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There's always 38 super--which in a +p load is still softer than a 357 IMO. If you're making your choice based on one or the other as a BUG--I'd go the 9mm route and load up with Lehigh Defender extreme defense or extreme penetrator. Many will dis the performance of these bullets--testing by the military says otherwise.
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Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM   #21
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The idea of lots off ammo isn't to test the ammunition's performance in the gun, it's to train the shooter to handle the recoil and gain control over the weapon with that ammo.

And foot pounds are a meaningless way to evaluate a cartridge/loads performance for self defense...but the myth goes on no matter how many times that truth is explained.

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Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
but the myth goes on no matter how many times that truth is explained.
the myth that 9mm is equal in power to .357!

Quote:
Will I need that 180 grain .357 when I walk to the liquor store in the city at 9PM?
I do because I live in the woods. We had a cougar kill and eat an entire deer not more than 100 feet from our front door.
But when i go to the city, I go with my 9mm.
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Old Yesterday, 04:17 PM   #23
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the myth that 9mm is equal in power to .357!
No. They myth that energy figures are an indication of a cartridge's or load's worth or usefulness as a self defense round.

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Old Yesterday, 04:44 PM   #24
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I was saying that in jest. I knew what you meant.

One cannot deny that energy factors are at least one consideration in a loads performance.
To say that it's not is ridiculous. No one is saying that it's the end all, but it is most definitely one factor and a way of some comparison.

The bullet configuration, rate of burn, ability of expansion and penetration, etc are other factors.

Are you claiming that it has NO worth?
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