40 S&W good enough for mountain lions/black bear?

[voyager4520]

I only trust the 40 because it's high capacity and I don't imagine a situation where something would be dead set on taking me down. We don't exactly have animals the size of an SUV threatening you here in Colorado though.

[Daugherty16]

One thing that should be mentioned - no pistol will save your life if you're not either extremely lucky (if a bear is attacking you in GA, I'd say your luck has run out) or a good shot, and punching paper at the range isn't adequate to prepare you to hit a moving animal that is actively trying to kill you. Neither is hunting (even dangerous game) from a tree stand with optics and a substantial margin of safety. As an example, in NYC the other day, cops fired a total of 12 rounds at a man INDOORS, and only hit him once. They train, go through semi-annual pistol recert, and yet when the suck happened, they only could hit him once in the leg. Adrenaline, fear, panic, you name it - in a bear attack you'll certainly feel it.

A .40 you can shoot well is much better than a .44M you can't hit a barn with. That said, i'd always rather have too much gun than not enough. Either way, if you're really concerned about these attacks, I'd suggest you practice shooting at moving targets and learn how to hit them while you're moving too - easier said than done. Lots of ways exist to improvise moving target practice if you have access to a private outdoor range, or you should be able to get professional training. Regardless of what you shoot, how you shoot is vastly more important..

Either that, or just enjoy the element of danger attendant in your hikes.

[snevensmores]

In my opinion, a hard-cast .40 would probably be sufficient. I think that more concern should be with situational awareness. Those "little cats" depend on the element of surprise. If you were unfortunate enough to have one of these animals charge you, good luck being able to hit them. Your ability to sense/detect them will be your best asset, in my opinion. Ammo, I feel, is a bit marginal, and the chances of being attacked are low. If you shoot your .40 well, keep it. Bear spray might be helpful, too. Just keep your eyes and ears open -- if you are approached by anything, you don't want to be the last to know.

[oceantoad]

pacerdude,

Did you talk to your cardiologist about shooting long guns?

I have a Saint Jude defib/pacer installed, and I was told it was OK to shoot.

Different medical situations I'm sure.

[radom]

Thats what I carry a lot out in the bear and couger woods areas. 100 years ago people did not have a issue using the 38-40 on bears so dont see why the same power with better bullets wont work now. If I recall the Alaska state game cops pack a .40 as the issue gun too.

[bufordtjustice]

Here is a sum up of what I agree with from other posters here:

The chances of attack in your state are somewhere between slim and none. Yes, you still should be prepared for it. That is most certainly wise. The first line of defense for you should be a good spray. I know that in Alaska for example the sprays are around 90% effective versus 60-70% for firearms.

A .40 cal. for me would be on the bottom end of the spectrum I would feel comfortable with but still serviceable. Buy the best ammo for it you can afford. If you can't draw and hit a target with it quickly, it won't matter what caliber it is.

Also, I should add to remember to make noise. Bear bells, frequent talking, etc. will let mama sow know you are in her area in plenty of time for her to move her cubs away.

[amprecon]

The pistols I own are a Glock 21, Glock 23, S&W 10 and Bersa UC9. Of these the G23 would be the pistol I'd take with me into the boonies. The .40s&w is a very viable and powerful round, moreso in it's factory loadings then the 9mm could ever hope to be in it's +p loadings and with more velocity than the .45acp. With it's heavier bullet weights than the 9mm and faster velocities than the .45acp the .40 is definitely able to punch through heavy materials with enough weight to have the momentum for penetration.
I agree the 10mm would be the better choice, and an even more powerful round in a revolver would be even better, but for it's size and capabilities the G23 is a decent choice in a semi.
I agree with those that say to be aware when out there and to have the discipline and control to perform under stress.

[amd6547]

7.62x25 Tokarev FMJ.

[jgcoastie]

In reply to those of you who say I did not read the original post I noted that

large caliber HANDGUNS would be usable since the man has a pacemaker. I

recommended the long guns to give him an understanding that more is better, in this situation.

In response to the individual who says .40 cal. will work on a bear, go right

ahead and try it.. it will be your funeral. I work in the firearms industry and

deal with large game hunters all the time. I did not intend to offend anyone by

using command language, one must understand the seriousness of dealing

with bears and cougars! Common misconceptions about effectiveness of

different weapons gets people KILLED. Do you know someone who has took

a charging bear down with a .40 cal.? If so I would like to meet him/her
__________________
What DOPE do you have on your gun?...echo6actual out

Seriously man... You need to chill... He's not talking about going out and trying to kill a Kodiak Coastal brown bear... He's asking if a .40S&W will suffice for black bear defense, in Georgia of all places... Most likely the smallest black bears around... A .40 should work fine... Heck, I carry bear spray and my 10mm around up here for bear defense... I'll bet you'll suggest a .416 Barrett for bear protection up here huh? No? Too small? Well just pick up a grenade launcher from one of your mall ninja buddies before you come up... Seriously, a .308 semi-auto as the minimum for a frikkin black bear??? You're either crazy or ignorant of the topic at hand...

Back to the OP... A .40S&W should work fine... I'll suggest a couple of ammo options if I may...

- DoubleTap 200gr WFNGC

- DoubleTap 200gr Controlled Expansion JHP

- DoubleTap 180gr Controlled Expansion JHP

Any and all of these should do the trick nicely... I carry the 200gr WFNGC loaded in my 10mm every time I go afield... Remember, the handgun is only a backup, your first line of defense should always be bear spray...

Best of luck...

[cracked91]

Bingo. Most of the black bears here in AZ are pretty small too, although I have seen some pretty big ones that had been shot. Both times I saw them I was unarmed except for a ka-bar, and I did not even really feel threatened. I usually just carry a .22. Its not really for defense but casual plinking and small game hunting. And if I did use it for defense, well I know everyone laughs at me but 90% of hikers here don't take a gun so I feel pretty well armed

[MrCleanOK]

It's better than nothing, but probably won't do you much good.

1. Your average Joe black bear wants nothing to do with you. Even if he's after your food at night, the minute you get up and start making noise, he's going to be outta there. For any black bear you just happen to bump into on the trail or that wanders into camp looking for a snack, get big, and get loud, and you'll scare it off.

2. A black bear that is stalking you or that you see more than once is demonstrating predatory behavior. It's either really, really hungry or messed up in the head. In this case, you need to LEAVE THE AREA, and if the bear attacks you before you can, fight back with everything you have because the bear is trying to kill and eat you. He has been watching you for a while, weighed the consequences, and made an affirmative decision that it's time to get some food instead of starve another day. A .40 S&W may save your life if you can dump enough rounds into his vitals and wait for him to die. If the gun goes empty or you can't get to it, keep fighting. It's you or him, and unlike the mountain lion, you actually stand a chance. Good luck!

3. You won't know you've been attacked by a mountain lion until you are face down on the ground with a 150 pound kitty on your back, nibbling on your neck and head. By all means, fight back if you can, but it will probably be over before it begins.

[N.H. Yankee]

Well I shot a 450 pound ( live weight ) black bear that was shot in the foot by the village idiot. The bear was wounded running and coming at me at about 80 yards, it turned broadside runing and I drilled it through the right shoulder with a 250gr 350 Remington magnum. I figured when I saw it summersault it was over NOT! I shot it one more time in the right side as it went over a hill and took THREE 7mm rem mags on the other side of the hill, 2 in the side and 1 in the butt and was coming back over the hill ( yeah dumb me was chasing it ) 50 feet from me and I shot it in the face and it dropped.

Better get a gun that needs WHEELS if you want a one shot stop! The buthcher asked me what the #$$% shooting range the bear ran across. All I can say is I was composed while shooting even at 50 feet, but was shaking ssooo bad after it was over I couldn't even talk! Like others said MACE and make it the 10% bear spray, biggest freeking container you can buy! Too think, we were hunting bears in caves with 44 mag handguns the year before, BOY WERE WE DUMB!!!!!!

[pacerdude]

Hey oceantoad,

I am in my early 20's and have had a pacemaker since I was 7 weeks old. I am also mostly pacer dependent. In 9th grade i got a staph infection during surgery. SO they ripped out the entire system (including a lot of muscle, bc I still have a hole in my chest... the scar looks like a shark bite though) and put my new pacemaker on the right side of the chest. So because of the scarring on the left side of my chest and my new pacer on the left (again i am mostly pacer dependent although sometimes God sees fit to give me a natural heartbeat) I am not able to shoot longguns. Thanks for the advice though. Im glad it hasnt stopped you from using long guns. Maybe without the scarring on the left a rifle or shotgun could have been an option. Anyway thanks again.

[mdvaden]

Lately, I've wanted a second firearm. And since I go into the woods alone too, a big caliber seemed like a good choice. I've been carrying a S&W .40 semi-auto. Figured I'd get a revolver.

Wanted something rather compact to carry in a holster or waist bag with velcro pocket. Ended up getting a Taurus .44 magnum snubnose with 2.5" barrel - 5 round. May be a Tracker model - but it's not marked with a model name. Just serial number. Ported too. $449 new. Rather affordable, and amazingly, fits in the same leather holster as my S&W .40 handgun.

Many of my hikes are spontaneous and offtrail. And in areas like southern Oregon and the north California redwoods where there are bear and cougar.

Just bought this one today. Sure love the instant background check here in Oregon - although the CC permit does the job too.

[skeeter]

Really you know the answer to this question. Go to the zoo and look at a black bear or mountain lion and ask yourself if this animal was coming after you would you want a 40SW or a SW 329 (which weights the same as a Glock 23 in 40SW) but is in 44mag?

[MEATSAW]

I have hunted black bear here in Oregon for the last 4 years. Besides my rifle I ALWAYS carry a backup .357 J-Frame loaded with Buffalo Bore 180 gr Hard cast lead flat nose bullets. Ultimately you will need a bullet that is capable of penetrating the bear's tough skull and/or its shoulders and ribs to get to the vitals IF you were in a situation that demanded that response. However all the times that I have stalked them stories told to me by my father and older brothers who also hunt here, black bears are easily scared off. Having a gun, any gun, is better than (as another member put it) a rotted tree branch. IF you and your wife make lots of noise and make yourself appear as large as possible the bear will turn tail and go away. Just make sure if you stick with your 40SW to practice often because 1-2 shots to a bears skull is always better than missing with a hand cannon.

[SA2112]

Best Remedy for black bear.

1. Announce yourself to the bears. Make NOISE. Nine times out of ten, the part you'll see is the ass end of the bear while it runs away.

2. Guard Alaska Bear Repellent. Best out there and rated for all bears.

3. 10mm packing Double Tap 10mm 200gr WFNGC Hardcast rounds: 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20 ... 1105fps / 542 ft lbs 100yds down range via Glock 20

[pacerdude]

Thank you guys for all of the advice!

[Cyborg-z]

Originally Posted by echo6actual

In reply to those of you who say I did not read the original post I noted that

large caliber HANDGUNS would be usable since the man has a pacemaker. I

recommended the long guns to give him an understanding that more is better, in this situation.

In response to the individual who says .40 cal. will work on a bear, go right

ahead and try it.. it will be your funeral. I work in the firearms industry and

deal with large game hunters all the time. I did not intend to offend anyone by

using command language, one must understand the seriousness of dealing

with bears and cougars! Common misconceptions about effectiveness of

different weapons gets people KILLED. Do you know someone who has took

a charging bear down with a .40 cal.? If so I would like to meet him/her

Their was an fishing guide in alaska that took down a charging grizzly with a 9mm I think it took 7 shots.

http://www.liveoutdoors.com/news/240...-9mm/#/slide/1

[Guv]

Originally Posted by echo6actual

Do NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT try to use a .40 S&W on a bear. You will lose life

and limb. I would suggest a NATO .308(7.62x51mm) magazine fed semi-auto

(sorry safety says no bolt action here) or larger high powered rifle. It has

been noted .44 Magnum and CUSTOM loaded .357 Magnum has been used

to kill bears in certain controlled instances. However, better safe than sorry!

Use a high powered semi-auto rifle or TRIPLE ought buck shot in a good

shotgun. Again if you use a shotgun use one that holds at least six rounds

in the tube. A pump will work but I reccomend a semi-auto shotgun. Above

all else be careful, wild animals don't give a @##t

So how many African Lion and dangerous game hunters have used a semi auto?

[Aguila Blanca]

Is reviving a nine-year old discussion anything related to necrophilia?

[Cyborg-z]

Hahaha necro. Well I was doing research on handguns/rounds for bear defense. I live in the eastern part of the state and our deer here are rather small about the size of a large dog , and the bear are and all that big out here either, so I don't have a lot of experience with large game especially ones they could eat you. but I was out trout fishing the other day and come across some pretty good size Bear Tracks and was quite a ways away from any help and was just kind of doing research to find out what will be the best round to use. I came across this thread and amongst my searching I found several cases where guys used 9 mil 40,45 357 and 10 mil to down anything from a black bear to a grizzly. I have never had a bear charge me but I can't imagine that using a pump action shotgun with a bear on top of you would be useful in any situation I would think a handgun that you could pull off your side and stick into the mouth, eyeball , head neck and start squeezing the trigger might be better , I didn't even realize how old this thread was

[Buzzcook]

You need a four bore double rifle preferably fully automatic. Cougar and bears are big and scary and mostly bullet proof.
The quarter pound four bore rounds probably won't penetrate, but they might hit hard enough to break bones. That plus the huge flash and bang will hopefully scare the animal away.

Honestly, just go for the hike and enjoy yourself. The odds of running into a cougar in Georgia are minuscule and the odds of running into a bear near a well traveled hiking trail are very small.

[spacemanspiff]

Their was an fishing guide in alaska that took down a charging grizzly with a 9mm I think it took 7 shots.

Just because a handful of people have gotten lucky does NOT mean their methods are recommended.

Should anyone choose to go out into the wilderness, wherever in the country they may reside, and opt for a semi auto handgun, whether by choice or by it being the only possible option, my recommendation would be to have high cap magazines. forget you 15 round mags, go for 30+. A bear won't stop charging for you to reload.

[Cyborg-z]

Originally Posted by spacemanspiff

Just because a handful of people have gotten lucky does NOT mean their methods are recommended.

Should anyone choose to go out into the wilderness, wherever in the country they may reside, and opt for a semi auto handgun, whether by choice or by it being the only possible option, my recommendation would be to have high cap magazines. forget you 15 round mags, go for 30+. A bear won't stop charging for you to reload.

I was simply just pointing out that the guy said he would like to meet him in other words it sounded like he saying you cant kill a bear with anything short of a RPG or Minigun. I don't now what that guys experience is with shooting charging bears, it would be my guess that he has zero exp just as I have no experience with charging bears. But I'm sure after reading this he will tell all the failures he never experienced with charging bears. I'm not speaking from experience. I don't think I would call these people lucky or just a handful, after researching about people using hand guns it seems that their are multitude of people who have killed bears in defense with pistols. Their also appears to be several instances where Alaskan state troopers have put down bears with 40 cal. so I would venture to say that this is a viable round. Yes bear spray works, but I had an Alaska fishing guide and a guide in montana tell me you arent you really gonna be far enough away when the burning stops and that grizzly comes back, you can run but once that grizzly can see he is gonna gain ground on you faster than you can run. From a logical stand point after reading all the reports of people using a pistol against bear, if the bear gets on top of you, you are more than likely screwed. But would you rather have a 40 or 9 strapped to a chest rig or theigh rig, or would you rather have a 30-06 that you cant get pointed in the right direction and then you cant work the bolt to load the next round to fire another shot, or a can of spray that might get in your face as well and now your blind hoping you get your sight back before the bear??? I opt for a hand gun in 9,40,45,10mm,357mag,44mag. handgun rounds aren't the weak pea shooters they used to be.