No love for the Springfield XD?

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by railroader

Part of the cost is the warranty. Springfield will fix anything on the gun and pay shipping forever. I use to own both Sar and Canik pistols and the I could see parts and repair being a problem in the future. I had a pre springfield XD the HS2000. Parts were a problem until springfield started importing the gun.

Folks count it against the XD that it's more expensive than the version that was imported briefly fifteen years ago by a company that no longer exists. Hmmmm.....

Yes, support costs money.

[Skunkape60]

I had an XD45 a few years back. it was my first .45 but after shooting the 1911 I sold every hand gun I owned and bought my first 1911. haven't own another 9mm or any other model since. It just feels so right in my hand. Everything else just feels ackward and clunky.

[Wheel-Gunner]

I guess I got lucky with my XD mod 2 subcompact 45. The trigger is good. Recoil is nothing. Have not had a single hang up, will fire everything I throw at it without a hitch. Incredibly accurate.

Yes, I hate the “grip zone” too. Why they did that is beyond me. But really, it fits me like a glove. It’s not like I sit and stare at the “grip zone” and lose sleep over it. The ergonomics of the mod 2 are worth overlooking the grip zone. I carry it often and have been quite pleased with the pistol overall. If the only con is a dumb “grip zone” label, then that is a pretty insignificant con overall in my view.

[OhioGuy]

My first gun (been shooting a little under 2 years now) was an XD Mod.2 Subcompact 9mm and it was completely reliable. You get a lot of value for the money with an XD. I'm not sure why but I never seemed to shoot quite as accurately with it as other guns I began trying, and it always felt top-heavy to me (probably because the slide is so heavy). I liked the grip safety and never once had an issue with it, even as a novice shooter. Having the safety of immobilizing the trigger when holstering just makes clear-as-day sense to me.

Eventually I sold it. I wanted something with a longer slide but compact grip. If there were an XD with the 4" barrel but the subcompact grip, I may have gone with it. I know the XDM 3.8" is closer but I just hated the feel of the grip.

Glock 19 dimensions just made sense. But I didn't especially like the G19, so I've ended up with a CZ P-07. A little effort and I'm handling the DA/SA just fine, and man is that SA trigger nice And, I can "ride the hammer" with my thumb when reholstering, again adding that margin of safety.

Yes, I know all about booger-hooks and bang-switches, but @!#& happens and I prefer having that margin.

[Fishbed77]

I've shot a few XD models and my brother owns an XDm I have shot occasionally. They appear well made and I shoot them well.

However, the grip safety adds unnecessary mechanical complexity and the price isn't that competitive against the leaders in this class, so I have never had any interest in the HS2000/XD line.

That and Springfield Armory. I have no desire to send any money their way.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by Wheel-Gunner

I guess I got lucky with my XD mod 2 subcompact 45. The trigger is good. Recoil is nothing. Have not had a single hang up, will fire everything I throw at it without a hitch. Incredibly accurate.

Yes, I hate the “grip zone” too. Why they did that is beyond me. But really, it fits me like a glove. It’s not like I sit and stare at the “grip zone” and lose sleep over it. The ergonomics of the mod 2 are worth overlooking the grip zone. I carry it often and have been quite pleased with the pistol overall. If the only con is a dumb “grip zone” label, then that is a pretty insignificant con overall in my view.

They dropped the "Gripe Zone" verbiage on latest gun to get the Mod. 2 refresh, the XDS 45.

[OhioGuy]

Has anyone here ever actually HAD a problem because of the grip safety? As in, had a failure to fire that wasn't quickly corrected by realizing your grip wasn't correct?

All objections to grip safeties seem to be speculative, as in "it's one more thing that could break" or "if both arms are blown off and I have to fire my gun with my feet, then the grip safety will cost me my life."

Or "it's unnecessary."

But specific instances of it actually interfering with function?

[JDBerg]

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...gtherig-part-3

This is from an Active Response Training.net article, #Don’tDigTheRig- Part 3;

“What about the Springfield XD? It’s main selling point seems to be “it’s not a Glock.” Most people who initially buy them just don’t like Glocks for whatever reason. They want something with Glock-like performance without Gaston’s name written on the slide. It’s a bad choice. The XD isn’t as good as the Glock (or several other different subcompact pistols).”

“Other folks attracted to the XD like the grip safety. This crowd is often the new CCW carrier who doesn’t yet feel comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber. They like that the grip safety provides an additional element of security for carry. If you don’t feel comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, you need more training, not a gun that makes shooting more difficult.”

“In (the author’s) classes, the XD pistols are not horrible performers, but they do malfunction at a rate higher than (he) see(s) with comparable Glock or S&W pistols. The magazines seem to be a big issue. (He’s) seen more weakened springs and bent feed lips than in other manufacturers’ products. Beyond that, the grip safety creates some issues with shooters who have small or weak hands. A problem occurs when students have a suboptimal grip and don’t fully depress the grip safety. Since the grip safety must be depressed in order to rack the slide, they can’t properly charge their pistols or perform malfunction clearing drills.”

“(The author) know(s) a lot of you XD users will say “That’s never happened to me!” (His) question to you is: have you ever practiced after really fatiguing your grip to simulate a life or death struggle? When is the last time you’ve worked support side one handed malfunction clearances? That’s where (he) really see(s) a lot of failures. Most casual shooters will never see such a thing because they don’t train hard enough to induce the malfunctions.”

[OhioGuy]

Thanks for posting. I'm not necessarily an advocate of grip safeties.

I'd say that having one says nothing about lacking comfort in carrying a loaded chamber. The grip safety has nothing to do with a loaded chamber, as it immobilizes the trigger which can't be pulled when inside a holster anyway.

It could have everything to do with immobilizing the trigger when inserting the gun into the holster, particularly under stress or fatigue along the lines of what this above article points out.

Nobody would argue that the hammer on a Beretta 92 constitutes a safety mechanism of any kind, but keeping your thumb on that hammer when holstering does increase the level of safety as a counterbalance to potential sloppiness or negligence when under stress or fatigue. I see the grip safety in precisely the same way.

Or, for that matter, the "Glock Gadget" that allows one to use a thumb to prevent the striker from moving backwards on a reholstering. Truthfully, I would prefer that arrangement to a grip safety, because it's even more passive and will not prevent the gun from firing due to a weak or improper grip.

[Jacket67]

Love them. The XDMs I've shot were awesome, and the mod.2 feels great as well. Was VERY close to making one my first gun, but I wanted a single stack and I don't like the XDS. Doesn't feel good to me. But XDM and mod.2's are good to go in my book.

[raimius]

JDBerg, the ARS article is an opinion piece, that, quite frankly, goes more into personal preference than it should for giving advice. (Calling a .40 subcompact in a hybrid holster the mark of inexperience?). I have shot pistols with grip safeties when my hands were so numb that depressing the mag release was a two-handed affair. The grip safety was never an issue. That is one of their advantages, anything near a normal grip will actuate them. As for being comfortable carrying, his opinion is worth what I paid for it. I carry a 1911, an XDS, or a P320. I like the safety system of the 1911 the best. Yes, it does require the most training, due to a manual safety, but once trained, it is not difficult or slower. The XDS middle ground does not require more training, as simply assuming a grip actuates it.

[kmw1954]

Wife just purchased her second XD Mod2. This one in 45acp. Her gun, Her choice. I too enjoy shooting both of those guns and for some strange reason I cannot see the "Grip Zone" when I'm looking down the sights.

But then what do I know I also own a Witness Pavona 380 in Black with Gold Speckles and it too shoots just fine and there too I cannot see the Speckles while looking down the sights..

[Rob228]

I've got an XDM .45 that I got for free. I wouldn't have bought it, but its not bad, it can easily compete with any of my Glocks. I don't like that the grip safety needs to be depressed to rack the slide, but that really is not a huge issue. I'd take a Glock 21 over it, but I got it for free...... No complaints on my end.

[Nathan]

I'd say that having one says nothing about lacking comfort in carrying a loaded chamber. The grip safety has nothing to do with a loaded chamber, as it immobilizes the trigger which can't be pulled when inside a holster anyway.

The XD grip safety blocks the sear release. So, yes, it does help when holstering or if the pistol is dropped.

[dgludwig]

Very true, Nathan. A grip safety is, well, a safety-not a gimmick. If some feel it's unnecessary or superfluous while others like the idea, it's good that we have choices.

[JDBerg]

Originally Posted by raimius:

JDBerg, the ARS article is an opinion piece, that, quite frankly, goes more into personal preference than it should for giving advice.

Well that’s one way to look at it. YouTube is loaded with gun jockeys who get their gun loaners, ammo, and accessories gratis, then give glowing reports on whatever they are evaluating. Gun authors give wonderful evaluations on guns from manufacturers in gun rags that include full page ads for the same guns and manufacturers. These are also examples of “opinion pieces”.

Another way to consider this is that the ARS article is written by an author who has a reputation for providing firearms training, who has no vested interest in the brands of firearms that the students bring to class, but who has to deal with certain brands of firearms that tend to “malf” more often than others during these training classes. So this instructor / author renders an informed opinion about the reliability of one brand, compared to other brands of firearms.

OBTW, the point the ARS article made that casual shooters do not subject their guns to use & abuse compared to dedicated shooters involved in training and competition, is a valid idea worth considering whether you like or agree with the premise or not.

[raimius]

JDBerg,
I'm not debating his experience or number of malfunctions he has seen.
Do XDs malfunction more than Glocks? I have not seen the data, but I can accept his report. From my anecdotal experience, they seem reasonably reliable (I might have seen 2-3 failure to feeds in several thousand rounds.) To me, that is "good enough" when talking about varied loads and magazines. Of course, fewer malfunctions is always better.

My beef was more with his commentary on firearms and holster choices being the mark of a novice shooter. It smells of an attitude that thinks their answer is "the answer." I'm not a fan of trainers who think they have "the answer." Further, his commentary on grip safeties is not congruent with my experience, does not align very well with the physical mechanics involved, and is not backed by any presented data (his argument against is presented as a hypothetical).

[FotoTomas]

As a retired old f@rt I remember the HS2000 and thought it a great budget option for a handgun. I did not need a budget pistol and never bought one. When Springfield started their distribution of the piece for almost double the cost and with some styling cues that to me looked hokey I again kept my money in my pocket. Many years later Springfield has built and sold a bunch of XDs but I have no need much less desire for one. A plethora of other pistols I own do everything I want a pistol to do and the Springfield simply does not do anything for me style wise. It might well be a good option for some but for me a non starter. About the only way one will enter my collection is someone wants to give me one. I will not spend my money for one.

[mete]

Grip safeties ? depends so much on the size , shape , and how you hold the pistol.
With my 1911 my grip safety is pinned. My hands don't touch the wooden grips . Front and back straps are checkered . My 1911 works very well and I have used it for carry,. hunting, target including IPSC ! It all works for ME !