Redding Bushing Die Question

jason75979 · May 13, 2012, 11:03 AM

I'm currently looking at purchasing the Redding Type S FL Bushing Die for my 308 and need some guidance on how to choose the correct size bushing for my rifle. The bushings are not included with the purchase of the die and are somewhat expensive. Is it a trial and error procedure, or is there a more exact method of determining what size I need?

steve4102 · May 13, 2012, 11:11 AM

http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips

jason75979 · May 13, 2012, 11:33 AM

Thanks Steve, I completely disregarded that section because of the word Tech. I was expecting "electronic tech".:banghead:

243winxb · May 13, 2012, 11:43 AM

You will end up with 3 bushing is my guess. Measuring a loaded round is the best way. Then buy a bushing .002" or more smaller. For autos, go smaller.

jason75979 · May 13, 2012, 12:06 PM

So I would need a bushing .338 for this casing? That is .002 smaller, correct?

That

243winxb · May 13, 2012, 12:52 PM

Yes. .338" is a good starting size for a bolt action. For an auto, you want more neck tension/smaller bushing. With a bushing, the brass spring back is outward. This can be as much as .001" springback. Try to find the neck with the smallest diameter if you are not outside neck turning.

243winxb · May 13, 2012, 12:56 PM

http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...ng-range-chart 308 Win. bushing range listed by Redding- .335-.343" Different brands of brass will need a different size bushing.

jason75979 · May 13, 2012, 01:32 PM

It will be for a bolt gun. I remembered I actually purchased a Forster Bushing shoulder bump die for this gun for fired brass.It came with 3 bushings: .332, .334, and .336. So it seems I will also have to purchase a Forster .338 bushing as well as the Redding and its appropriate bushings.
In case your wondering, I'm purchasing a FL sizing die because a friend has given me his spent Black Hills .308 match casings because he doesn't reload.
Thanks for the help.

Bart B. · May 14, 2012, 07:12 AM

A loaded .308 round's neck at .340 inch indicates the neck wall thickness of .016 inch. That's pretty thick as most commercial cases have neck walls thinner. Those Black Hills cases must have the thickest walls of all.

How much does an empty, unprimed case weigh?

Just curious as neck walls that thick typically mean thick brass all the way back. Loads may need to be reduced somewhat from normal.

jason75979 · May 14, 2012, 09:07 AM

Actually the loaded round I checked Bart was Lapua factory loaded 168 scenars that I will use to break in the barrel and work up to distances. After its gone I will begin loading those casings.
I did not check the Black Hills casings as they haven't been reloaded yet.

wileybelch · May 17, 2012, 04:18 AM

Over the years I have found a lot of neck thickness variation in .308/.30-06 cases (both commercial and military). So I routinely neck turn .30 cal cases to 0.014" thick using a Sinclair tool. Given a .308" diameter bullet, this gives a maximum loaded neck diameter of .336". Now the issue becomes one of neck tension on the bullet. I shoot a lot of .30 cal competition so recoil effects and ammo handling are potential problems for neck tension. By trial and error, I have settled on a Redding bushing of .328" to provide a adquately 'firm' grip on the bullet for these moderate neck length .30 cal rounds (this grip issue is even more important for the .30 cal magnums!). As a final note, neck turning does a excellent job of removing uneven brass on the neck which is erroneously attributed to finished cartridge 'runout' measurements.

Bart B. · May 17, 2012, 07:20 AM

wileybelch, it's interesting that you're using a Redding 30 caliber .328" bushing for .308 and .30-06 cases. They only make that bushing size for .30-30, 7.62mmx39 and .300-.378 Wby. Mag. cases. Redding's .308 Win. bushing sizes range from .335" to .343" and the .30-06 ones .331" -.339". Are you using that .328" bushing to neck only size cases?

I think a sizing die's .328" neck diameter for .336" loaded round neck diameter ends up with more neck tension that's needed. As there's typically a 10% to 20% spread in a bullet's release force needed to push it out of the case, the higher the average release force is, the greater the muzzle velocity spread will be.

I and many others in competition have used full length sizing dies with necks only .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter for .30-06 and .308 Win. ammo in box magazine bolt guns. Rapid firing the ammo doesn't cause bullet setback from being smacked by the magazine's front wall. Single-loaded rounds for slow fire need sizing die neck diameters only .001" smaller than necks on loaded rounds.

And with a .300 Win. Mag., sizing dies with necks .003" - .004" smaller than loaded round's neck diameter on 200-gr. bullets with max loads in an 8-pound hunting rifle works well. No bullet setback on rounds in the magazine.

Redding's web site has excellent insights on neck bushing sizes; see "BUSHING SELECTION" in:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips

May 13, 2012, 11:03 AM	#1
jason75979 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 137	Redding Bushing Die Question I'm currently looking at purchasing the Redding Type S FL Bushing Die for my 308 and need some guidance on how to choose the correct size bushing for my rifle. The bushings are not included with the purchase of the die and are somewhat expensive. Is it a trial and error procedure, or is there a more exact method of determining what size I need?

May 13, 2012, 12:56 PM	#7
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Redding Bushing Range Chart http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...ng-range-chart 308 Win. bushing range listed by Redding- .335-.343" Different brands of brass will need a different size bushing.

May 13, 2012, 11:11 AM	#2
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips

May 13, 2012, 11:33 AM	#3
jason75979 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 137	Thanks Steve, I completely disregarded that section because of the word Tech. I was expecting "electronic tech".:banghead:

May 13, 2012, 11:43 AM	#4
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	You will end up with 3 bushing is my guess. Measuring a loaded round is the best way. Then buy a bushing .002" or more smaller. For autos, go smaller.

May 13, 2012, 12:06 PM	#5
jason75979 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 137	So I would need a bushing .338 for this casing? That is .002 smaller, correct? That

May 13, 2012, 12:52 PM	#6
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Yes. .338" is a good starting size for a bolt action. For an auto, you want more neck tension/smaller bushing. With a bushing, the brass spring back is outward. This can be as much as .001" springback. Try to find the neck with the smallest diameter if you are not outside neck turning.

May 13, 2012, 01:32 PM	#8
jason75979 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 137	It will be for a bolt gun. I remembered I actually purchased a Forster Bushing shoulder bump die for this gun for fired brass.It came with 3 bushings: .332, .334, and .336. So it seems I will also have to purchase a Forster .338 bushing as well as the Redding and its appropriate bushings. In case your wondering, I'm purchasing a FL sizing die because a friend has given me his spent Black Hills .308 match casings because he doesn't reload. Thanks for the help.

May 14, 2012, 07:12 AM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	A loaded .308 round's neck at .340 inch indicates the neck wall thickness of .016 inch. That's pretty thick as most commercial cases have neck walls thinner. Those Black Hills cases must have the thickest walls of all. How much does an empty, unprimed case weigh? Just curious as neck walls that thick typically mean thick brass all the way back. Loads may need to be reduced somewhat from normal.

May 14, 2012, 09:07 AM	#10
jason75979 Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 137	Actually the loaded round I checked Bart was Lapua factory loaded 168 scenars that I will use to break in the barrel and work up to distances. After its gone I will begin loading those casings. I did not check the Black Hills casings as they haven't been reloaded yet.

May 17, 2012, 04:18 AM	#11
wileybelch Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 115	Over the years I have found a lot of neck thickness variation in .308/.30-06 cases (both commercial and military). So I routinely neck turn .30 cal cases to 0.014" thick using a Sinclair tool. Given a .308" diameter bullet, this gives a maximum loaded neck diameter of .336". Now the issue becomes one of neck tension on the bullet. I shoot a lot of .30 cal competition so recoil effects and ammo handling are potential problems for neck tension. By trial and error, I have settled on a Redding bushing of .328" to provide a adquately 'firm' grip on the bullet for these moderate neck length .30 cal rounds (this grip issue is even more important for the .30 cal magnums!). As a final note, neck turning does a excellent job of removing uneven brass on the neck which is erroneously attributed to finished cartridge 'runout' measurements.

May 17, 2012, 07:20 AM	#12
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	wileybelch, it's interesting that you're using a Redding 30 caliber .328" bushing for .308 and .30-06 cases. They only make that bushing size for .30-30, 7.62mmx39 and .300-.378 Wby. Mag. cases. Redding's .308 Win. bushing sizes range from .335" to .343" and the .30-06 ones .331" -.339". Are you using that .328" bushing to neck only size cases? I think a sizing die's .328" neck diameter for .336" loaded round neck diameter ends up with more neck tension that's needed. As there's typically a 10% to 20% spread in a bullet's release force needed to push it out of the case, the higher the average release force is, the greater the muzzle velocity spread will be. I and many others in competition have used full length sizing dies with necks only .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter for .30-06 and .308 Win. ammo in box magazine bolt guns. Rapid firing the ammo doesn't cause bullet setback from being smacked by the magazine's front wall. Single-loaded rounds for slow fire need sizing die neck diameters only .001" smaller than necks on loaded rounds. And with a .300 Win. Mag., sizing dies with necks .003" - .004" smaller than loaded round's neck diameter on 200-gr. bullets with max loads in an 8-pound hunting rifle works well. No bullet setback on rounds in the magazine. Redding's web site has excellent insights on neck bushing sizes; see "BUSHING SELECTION" in: http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips