Handloading for the AR-10

gman3 · December 30, 2011, 07:44 PM

Any tips for handloading for the .308 AR type rifle ? Thinking about buying one next week. Already load 308 for bolt rifle, but are there any specific peculiarities in reference to handloading for these type rifles. I already know I will have to full lenghth size the cases. Was considering the 5.56x45, but already have about 2500 pieces of WRA 68 brass and all of the other stuff for 308. So, anyone who has one, or is familiar with them, good advice would be appreciated. The rifle is a Bushmaster 308 ORC.

Thanks

steve4102 · December 31, 2011, 12:22 AM

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

level10 · December 31, 2011, 12:47 AM

use a small base die set for auto loaders the ar will be hard on the brass

hodaka · December 31, 2011, 08:30 AM

I had a DPMS LR-308 for a couple of years when they first came out. I shot it a lot. I mostly used 168 and 155 SMK's with 4064 although I tried Varget and used several brands of primers. I used standard RCBS and Lee dies. I full length sized. With a 6x24 B&L scope it was boringly accurate. Inch groups at 200yds were common. I added a Jewel trigger. Never had trouble with the brass or trouble with anything. A good rifle but heavy. You should love the Bushmaster. Have fun.

confirmed shooter · December 31, 2011, 10:01 AM

you will need to get a factory crimp die so the bullets don't push forward in the case while firing.(the one's in the mag) I have found the 168 match king with 4064 to be real good.

alloy · December 31, 2011, 10:18 AM

Looks like that's a carbine 16"?
I use 3031 and 4895 instead of slower burning powders in my similar .308.
Nosler CC 168 and Sierra MK 168 HPBT seem nearly interchangable. Basically the same oft quoted loads as what works in M1As. WLR primers seem consistant without flattening.
Mine's a little hard on the brass compared to a few others, around the neck area, and life is reduced a bit.

gman3 · December 31, 2011, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the replies.
Yes, it is a 16" carbine. I wanted to keep things as light and handy as possible, yet it will still be around nine lbs with a loaded mag.
That being said,I currently use RL-15 and 155/168 Amax's in my .308 bolt rifle. Would a slightly faster powder be more appropriate with the shorter barrel and semi auto action? I have never loaded for one before.
I do have a Lee factory crimp die, but don't use it, due to the the bullets that I use do not have a cannelure to crimp in. I suppose I could use a slight crimp with the Redding seater die also.
The WRA 68 brass seems to be alot heavier and tougher than the commercial brass that I have used, which I also have alot of, and I though it would be great brass for use in a semi auto rifle, plus I have a lot of it. If I can get four loads out of it, thats 10,000rounds. I would not need anymore for a long time. I realize that it has a smaller internal volume and I would have to reduce my loads somewhat because of that.
That is why I chose to go 308 instead of 223, it utilizes what I already have, and am famililar with. Kind of keeps things simple.
So, what do you guys think about the Reloder 15, or would you use a faster powder with the 16" barrel ?

alloy · December 31, 2011, 02:31 PM

RL-15 seems to be popular with M!A, AR-10 etc.
Shorter barrel has for me worked best with quicker powders....hence the IMR 3031 I mentioned.

Here's something worth a read that might help.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

Toxdoc · December 31, 2011, 06:26 PM

My only current rifle load is for my DPMS LR-308L (.308 chamber). I have plenty of 7.62 Nato surplus, so I use only that in my 308 AP4 upper.

I don't think I do anything particularly special. I do clean the primer pockets. I resize with an RCBS X-die. I'm using CCI 200. The bullet is a 168gr OTM over 42.7 gr of Varget. I load to an OAL of 2.8 with a taper crimp using the RCBS seater/crimp die. Most of my brass is PPU that has only been used in this rifle. I don't think I'm doing anything all that special.

The load is relatively soft shooting, cycles fine, doesn't abuse the brass and gives me pretty good groupings. I haven't chronoed it yet, but I'm happy with this one.

gman3 · January 1, 2012, 05:22 PM

Thanks for the link guys, very informative. After reading the info in the link, I believe I am on the right track. I do now have some concerns about the likelyhood of the brass that I have, (WRA 68 7.62 Nato) having been fired in a machine gun chamber, and thus being overly stretched. It required about .025 trimming to get to minimum lenght after sizing. Looks like I will need a case gauge to get started off right.

jdillon · January 1, 2012, 06:07 PM

Have a DPMS AR-10 with a 16" bbl and shoots well with 42 gr. of Varget behind 168 gr MK. at about 2400 fps. Pretty close velocity to Federal Gold Medal Match for that rifle. FL size brass about .005 less than fired cases and no need to taper crimp. 135 gr. MK shoot very well out of the rifle also.

FTG-05 · January 1, 2012, 10:06 PM

Don't reload Federal match brass. I did once and got a spent primer to jam the bolt in the gun. Broke several lugs off the bolt.

I sent the upper back to Armalite and told them the truth (using reloaded ammo), which isn't covered by the warranty. The president of Armalite authorized a bolt replacement at cost due to the honesty. I won't use Federal brass again.

My AR-10A4 carbine is the most accurate rifle I own. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours.

Good luck.

HiBC · January 1, 2012, 11:20 PM

RE-15 is just fine.It seems to put just a touch more fouling in the bcg than Varget.I would not hesitate to load RE15 if it is what you stock.

I own a DPMS,and shoot with 3 people who have Armalites.None of us use small base dies.We shoot exclusively handloads with excellent results.

We use Varget,WW brass,Win primers,and ,depending on application,168 gr Nosler Custom Comps,165 gr Ballistic tips,or 165 gr Accubonds.

Except 1 brother prefers the 175 MK as it is better at extreme range.

In my rifle,and another Armalite,one range day:The new 155 Palma bullet with the over .500 BC just did not group for us.I believe its more VLD shape requires an apprpriate throat.I am sure it shoot world class in a proper rifle.

However,the older 155 Palma,now just designated a 155 MK.shot very well for us.

If you choose to crimp,I suggest the Lee factory die and just the lightest crimp.

On your stretched brass.Good call on the caution.Hacksaw some samples lengthwise.Look for the stretch ring.You can inspect your cases with the bent paper clip trick.Then you have to make a decision about risk.

I suggest you get a Wilson case gage bushing.When you set up your sizing die,it will help you keep from over-bumping the shoulder back.You can use it with a mic or calipers to have even more control

alloy · January 2, 2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

I suggest you get a Wilson case gage

No doubt.
Or Lyman's version.

gman3 · January 2, 2012, 01:24 PM

I have shot some of the brass from my bolt gun, and there were no problems. It was very accurate with that brass. I have not found any grooves on the inside of the pieces that I have examined with the paper clip method, but I have only checked a few.
I have resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, and uniformed the primer pockets on about 1000 of them here and there, but I did not weight sort them. I'm thinking that the rifle will probably not be capable of the sort of accuracy where that will matter much.
Might take a day when I have nothing else to do and very carefully examine all of them, and check them in the case gauge. What the link had to say about brass prep on surplus cases is definately true, it took a lot of time to do the 1000 or so that I have done. And still have about 1500 more to do eventually.

Thanks, just the kind of insight I was looking for.

gonzoo75 · January 3, 2012, 05:16 PM

I reload for a dpms sass which has a 18 inch barrel with 1-10 twist. I have hade excllent luck using Varget rem 9 1/2 primers and hornady 165 sst. Besure you crimp them. I did a little test with a un crimped dummy round. The amount the bullet moved was a eye opener.

December 30, 2011, 07:44 PM	#1
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	Handloading for the AR-10 Any tips for handloading for the .308 AR type rifle ? Thinking about buying one next week. Already load 308 for bolt rifle, but are there any specific peculiarities in reference to handloading for these type rifles. I already know I will have to full lenghth size the cases. Was considering the 5.56x45, but already have about 2500 pieces of WRA 68 brass and all of the other stuff for 308. So, anyone who has one, or is familiar with them, good advice would be appreciated. The rifle is a Bushmaster 308 ORC. Thanks

December 31, 2011, 12:47 AM	#3
level10 Member Join Date: December 25, 2011 Posts: 32	ar10 reloads use a small base die set for auto loaders the ar will be hard on the brass

January 1, 2012, 06:07 PM	#11
jdillon Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2011 Location: Southern NM Posts: 141	Have a DPMS AR-10 with a 16" bbl and shoots well with 42 gr. of Varget behind 168 gr MK. at about 2400 fps. Pretty close velocity to Federal Gold Medal Match for that rifle. FL size brass about .005 less than fired cases and no need to taper crimp. 135 gr. MK shoot very well out of the rifle also. __________________ "Emergencies have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded" - F.A. Hayek

January 1, 2012, 11:20 PM	#13
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	RE-15 is just fine.It seems to put just a touch more fouling in the bcg than Varget.I would not hesitate to load RE15 if it is what you stock. I own a DPMS,and shoot with 3 people who have Armalites.None of us use small base dies.We shoot exclusively handloads with excellent results. We use Varget,WW brass,Win primers,and ,depending on application,168 gr Nosler Custom Comps,165 gr Ballistic tips,or 165 gr Accubonds. Except 1 brother prefers the 175 MK as it is better at extreme range. In my rifle,and another Armalite,one range day:The new 155 Palma bullet with the over .500 BC just did not group for us.I believe its more VLD shape requires an apprpriate throat.I am sure it shoot world class in a proper rifle. However,the older 155 Palma,now just designated a 155 MK.shot very well for us. If you choose to crimp,I suggest the Lee factory die and just the lightest crimp. On your stretched brass.Good call on the caution.Hacksaw some samples lengthwise.Look for the stretch ring.You can inspect your cases with the bent paper clip trick.Then you have to make a decision about risk. I suggest you get a Wilson case gage bushing.When you set up your sizing die,it will help you keep from over-bumping the shoulder back.You can use it with a mic or calipers to have even more control Last edited by HiBC; January 1, 2012 at 11:26 PM.

December 31, 2011, 12:22 AM	#2
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

December 31, 2011, 08:30 AM	#4
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I had a DPMS LR-308 for a couple of years when they first came out. I shot it a lot. I mostly used 168 and 155 SMK's with 4064 although I tried Varget and used several brands of primers. I used standard RCBS and Lee dies. I full length sized. With a 6x24 B&L scope it was boringly accurate. Inch groups at 200yds were common. I added a Jewel trigger. Never had trouble with the brass or trouble with anything. A good rifle but heavy. You should love the Bushmaster. Have fun.

December 31, 2011, 10:01 AM	#5
confirmed shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: reno, Nv. Posts: 109	you will need to get a factory crimp die so the bullets don't push forward in the case while firing.(the one's in the mag) I have found the 168 match king with 4064 to be real good.

December 31, 2011, 02:11 PM	#7
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	Thanks for the replies. Yes, it is a 16" carbine. I wanted to keep things as light and handy as possible, yet it will still be around nine lbs with a loaded mag. That being said,I currently use RL-15 and 155/168 Amax's in my .308 bolt rifle. Would a slightly faster powder be more appropriate with the shorter barrel and semi auto action? I have never loaded for one before. I do have a Lee factory crimp die, but don't use it, due to the the bullets that I use do not have a cannelure to crimp in. I suppose I could use a slight crimp with the Redding seater die also. The WRA 68 brass seems to be alot heavier and tougher than the commercial brass that I have used, which I also have alot of, and I though it would be great brass for use in a semi auto rifle, plus I have a lot of it. If I can get four loads out of it, thats 10,000rounds. I would not need anymore for a long time. I realize that it has a smaller internal volume and I would have to reduce my loads somewhat because of that. That is why I chose to go 308 instead of 223, it utilizes what I already have, and am famililar with. Kind of keeps things simple. So, what do you guys think about the Reloder 15, or would you use a faster powder with the 16" barrel ?

December 31, 2011, 06:26 PM	#9
Toxdoc Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2008 Posts: 106	My only current rifle load is for my DPMS LR-308L (.308 chamber). I have plenty of 7.62 Nato surplus, so I use only that in my 308 AP4 upper. I don't think I do anything particularly special. I do clean the primer pockets. I resize with an RCBS X-die. I'm using CCI 200. The bullet is a 168gr OTM over 42.7 gr of Varget. I load to an OAL of 2.8 with a taper crimp using the RCBS seater/crimp die. Most of my brass is PPU that has only been used in this rifle. I don't think I'm doing anything all that special. The load is relatively soft shooting, cycles fine, doesn't abuse the brass and gives me pretty good groupings. I haven't chronoed it yet, but I'm happy with this one.

January 1, 2012, 05:22 PM	#10
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	Thanks for the link guys, very informative. After reading the info in the link, I believe I am on the right track. I do now have some concerns about the likelyhood of the brass that I have, (WRA 68 7.62 Nato) having been fired in a machine gun chamber, and thus being overly stretched. It required about .025 trimming to get to minimum lenght after sizing. Looks like I will need a case gauge to get started off right.

January 1, 2012, 10:06 PM	#12
FTG-05 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: TN Posts: 301	Don't reload Federal match brass. I did once and got a spent primer to jam the bolt in the gun. Broke several lugs off the bolt. I sent the upper back to Armalite and told them the truth (using reloaded ammo), which isn't covered by the warranty. The president of Armalite authorized a bolt replacement at cost due to the honesty. I won't use Federal brass again. My AR-10A4 carbine is the most accurate rifle I own. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours. Good luck.

January 2, 2012, 01:24 PM	#15
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	I have shot some of the brass from my bolt gun, and there were no problems. It was very accurate with that brass. I have not found any grooves on the inside of the pieces that I have examined with the paper clip method, but I have only checked a few. I have resized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, and uniformed the primer pockets on about 1000 of them here and there, but I did not weight sort them. I'm thinking that the rifle will probably not be capable of the sort of accuracy where that will matter much. Might take a day when I have nothing else to do and very carefully examine all of them, and check them in the case gauge. What the link had to say about brass prep on surplus cases is definately true, it took a lot of time to do the 1000 or so that I have done. And still have about 1500 more to do eventually. Thanks, just the kind of insight I was looking for.

January 3, 2012, 05:16 PM	#16
gonzoo75 Member Join Date: July 16, 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 19	I reload for a dpms sass which has a 18 inch barrel with 1-10 twist. I have hade excllent luck using Varget rem 9 1/2 primers and hornady 165 sst. Besure you crimp them. I did a little test with a un crimped dummy round. The amount the bullet moved was a eye opener.