Gun Shy: Unexpected Trepidation

[Demetrius]

Being a manly man , it is hard for me to admit this but I am a little 'large calibur wary.' Hmm, perhaps wary is not vigorous enough to convey my difficulty. Paralyzed with fright swings the pendulum a bit too far the other way; needless to say somewhere between wary and paralyzed I am having an irrational caliber reaction.

It boils down to the fact that I do not like handling large caliber weapons at all. I would go so far as to say I cannot handle one safely and will not do so until I have mastered this issue.

For example, I can safely use a 22. I handle it with respect as a potentially deadly weapon, but I can use it as a tool. Not being raised around weapons, I am probably a bit overcautious, but it is not a debilitating problem: I just move a bit slower and think through movements a bit more to avoid the muzzle straying where I do not wish it. Suffice it to say, my confident friends probably do this instinctively being brought up with firearms. With practice and study I am convinced that I will learn in time to be a passable marksman.

A military buddy of mine had a 9mm and another had a .357. Frankly, the size of the bullet in comparison to a 22 was daunting to me. I was deeply troubled by the thought of making a mistake with such a caliber to the point where I could not work with the weapons at all. This is completely irrational as a mistake with a 22 could be devastating.

Any observations or suggestions on this issue?

My only practical solution is to continue shooting and consider moving up to a 32acp. I know nothing about that caliber, but I do know that in appearance it is like a ‘thick 22LR’ bullet. Any comments on SA 32acp weapons?

[Don Lu]

What do you intend to use it for ?

[Demetrius]

Home Defense; my wife is learning too.

[CarbineCaleb]

Have you had any formal training? One thing I'd suggest at the very least is an introductory class in handgun safety and basic marksmanship from a reputable instructor/school. You'll both feel safer and be safer with some good training under your belt.

Another thing would be to get some high quality earmuffs that will block the boom more effectively than the el-cheapos do. These guys, for example, make some excellent hearing protection:
http://www.howardleight.com/products/products.asp

Finally, I'd look at revolvers over semiautos. Not only do they offer much simpler operation, but they also function properly with a much wider range of ammunition powers than a semiauto will. So... you can get a good sized .357 revolver, like a Smith & Wesson medium or large frame with a 4-6" barrel, and shoot .38 target loads out of it. Then as you gain confidence and skill, you can just work your way up with the same gun - the same gun will function with a load energy range of 5 times or more. A model suggestion is the 6" S&W 686P.

[defjon]

try a 380, they're tiny!

[Don Lu]

Shoothing 38spl out of a Revolver 4-6 inches is not bad as far as recoil (although I'd stick w/4" or less for home defense), also shooting 9mm out of a heavier auto is not to bad, you may not need to move up in power by going up to a .32. You could just make the jump to 9mm or 38spl...once you are comfortable there, your gonna be ready for anything. Also, I would shoot a .32 in home defense if thats all I had, but it definatly wouldnt be my choice for defense.

[CarbineCaleb]

A light and puny pistol chambered in .32ACP or .380 will actually be more difficult to handle than a hefty fullsized pistol in 9mm. And the .357 I discussed will be even smoother shooting than that with the light .38s. The .357 revolver can span the full range of semi-auto power, from .25ACP to 10mm. And as long as you get a good sized gun, it will handle very easily in the lighter power ranges.

[tony pasley]

First question is where do you shoot? Indoor ranges have the R.O. who could help, Most outdoor public ranges also. Your friends can also be helpful one on one shooting with few or nobody else around to get past you fear. Fear is good when it makes you use caution, but bad when it controls you. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[pax]

Demetrius ~

When I heard one of my kids say to another one, "It's just a .22," I knew we had a problem. So I took them up to the range and we killed vegetables with that dinky little underpowered .22. The vegetables went every which way, in pieces, and the kids gained a new respect for the deadly little .22 round. We talked about how much damage a "little" bullet could do to a human body, and we talked about the fact that .22's have killed more people than nearly any other round out there.

I know all this doesn't sound like much on the way to reducing your fears, and I'm sorry for that. But fear-reduction has to start from a position of knowledge, otherwise it's useless. The knowledge that you need to carry with you is that EVERY gun is a deadly weapon and needs to be treated as such. You won't be any less dead if you accidentally shoot yourself in the head with a .22 than you would be if you shot yourself with a .44 magnum. (And in fact it sounds as if you already know that ... so I'm hammering it home. What can I say? I'm a nag!)

On the plus side, you have learned to handle those dangerous .22's safely. Those same good gun handling habits will keep you safe when you move up to larger calibers -- just as the basic swimming skills you learned in 6 feet of water as a kid worked just fine when you went swimming in 20 feet of water at the lake. You could have drowned in 6 feet of water just as easily as in 20 feet of water, but you could also swim just as well in one as you could in the other.

... </lecture mode> ...

Having said all that, there are a few things you can do.

1) Let your fear work for you. There's nothing wrong with being afraid of a gun. That's a smart thing, not a dumb thing, and it's certainly not something to be ashamed of. So let your fear work for you; use the energy it gives you make you the absolutely safest gun-handler, anywhere, anywhen. Let it fuel your desire to learn the mechanics of every gun you handle; let it drive you to memorize the safety rules and obsessively, compulsively follow them every time you pick up a gun. That's just smart stuff there.

2) Ear muffs, ear plugs, ear protection. Can't say this one enough. Lots of people think they are "scared of gunfire" when in fact they simply have very sensitive ears. There's a world of difference between good ear protection and poor ear protection. Your hearing is priceless, and deserves better protection than a set of muffs you found at the dollar store. 'nuff said on that one.

3) Learn how to hold the gun properly. Lots of people hate larger calibers simply because no one ever showed them the paradoxical truth that the more you snuggle up and get cozy with the gun, the less it is going to bother you. That's true of both long guns and of handguns; with a long gun you hold it closer to your shoulder and don't pull your face away; with a handgun you hold it more firmly in your palm, lean into it and keep your wrists straight. With either type of gun, shying away from the gun or holding it awkwardly can cause problems. You can fake it with a little toy pop-gun, but as soon as you're shooting something with a little recoil, you'll notice whether you were doing it right or not. Practice doing it right with your .22 and you'll never even know what I'm talking about on this one.

4) Don't be afraid to try BIG guns. Fact is, the more a gun weighs and the larger it is, the less you will notice the recoil. This is true whether it is a "big" caliber or a "little" one ... in fact, there are an awful lot of tiny little guns in wimpy little calibers that are decidedly less pleasant to shoot than big guns in larger calibers. Best of all? A big gun in a "little" caliber.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck with it!

pax

[bdcbbq]

I was in your situation in the past. 2 months ago. Overly, cautious. However, I decided to learn about guns and using them. I read multiple websites and forums, but the overall best was Cornered Cat. I signed up for a basic pistol course by an NRA instructor, shot a few guns in class, and rented one and a box of bullets for after class and shot them individually. Loading only 3 shells per magazine. I've been going to a range every week and renting a different guy. I've now worked up to .45 auto. I am safety conscious, but with the experience shooting over the past 3 weeks, I feel much more comfortable handling a gun because I've actually handled them.

At first I wanted the smallest gun possible, a .380 or 9mm, because I thought I would have a hard time shooting a larger gun. But after shooting a .45 I'm seriously considering one for CCW and home protection.

[Deaf Smith]

Demi,

Get a .500 Smith&Wesson rental range gun. Fire five shots, one handed, at the local indoor range. I assure you, after that, the 9mm will be puny indeed!

Or, if you don't want to move so fast, go to an indoor range and rent a steel frame 9mm. They are HEAVY! Kicks like a .22. And rent a N frame Smith&Wesson .357 magnum and shoot .38 wadcutters. Again, kicks like a .22. Later use +P 9mms and .38s to get abit more kick. Then just progress to lighter and lighter 9mms and .357s till you hit the right combination of power, weight, and control you feel comfortable with.

As for destructive power, again, see what that .500 S&W hands out and you won't think so much of the 9mm or a .38 or even a .357.

[Samurai]

Demetrius,

Pax is right... she IS a nag. (Just kidding!!!) Seriously, though. Pax is a very smart lady, and she is absolutely right about this one.

There's nothing wrong with shooting .22. But, if you truly want to learn to shoot big caliburs without fear (which is technically bad, because you should ALWAYS treat a gun with fear and reverence), the solution is to actually go and shoot big caliburs. Go to the range, and rent a .45, and a box of rounds. Shoot through the whole box, as slowly as you have to in order to feel safe. Then, the next week, go through another box. Then, another. Keep shooting the .45 until you're ok with it. Eventually, you WILL develop a tolerance. (Or a horrible flinch...)

There is a MARKED difference between .45 and .22. If you have shot .22 your whole life, and you EXPECT every gun to behave as a .22, then a .45 can be very unnerving. Try shooting .45 until you EXPECT every gun to behave as a .45. Then, when you switch back to .22, you'll be PLEASANTLY surprised at how smoothly it handles.

Just a thought...

[C Philip]

It sounds to me like you're just anticipating the recoil too much. With a good proper grip on the gun, recoil is not a problem. 9mm is not bad at all, but like others have said, the weight of the gun does make a difference. An all steel full size 9mm will recoil less than a tiny ultralight .380. I recommend having someone check to make sure your grip is proper, and start out firing two handed. With this the recoil will not be an issue. It is a common problem for new shooters to anticipate recoil and jerk the gun, throwing off their aim, however with a good grip and a little practice you will soon lose the anticipation.

One training trick is to have someone else load your magazines, and they randomly add in some snap caps; this way when you go to fire the gun and a snap cap is in the chamber, you will clearly see if you are anticipating recoil or not (if the gun moves at all or if you jerk it, you know you need to work on that). It also gives some practice in clearing the gun for instances where you might have a squib round or bad primer strike.

[Mark B]

As has been said the answer to your issue is EXPOSURE! Have your friend make sure his .357 is unloaded and hand it to you. Then YOU
1. make sure its unloaded.
2. present downrange and dry fire several times.
3. load the gun, close the cylinder, then completely unload it. Do this several times without touching the trigger.
4. Load the gun for your friend while he shoots
4. After the range sesson, clean your buddies .357

Do this for three or so range sessions and you're next thread on the subject, you'll be complaining that your friend doesn't let you shoot his guns often enough

[Inspectorlee]

In an effort to help, this is my story (all true):

I'm a "little guy/man". I stand 5'6" and weigh 125-130 lbs. The very first time I went to a range (the basement of a gun shop) my cousin rented three semi-autos for us/me to sample, a Beretta, a Sig, and a Glock. I don't know their model numbers because this was all new to me. Well, I shot them all and really liked the Sig due to the weight, I actually liked the "heft" of it. The Glock's recoil felt too "snappy", probably due to the choice of materials. I am not ashamed to admit that I had trouble loading bullets into the clips either, it simply felt too hard and I wasn't strong enough to load more than 5 rounds before it became too much of a chore (one reason why I bought a revolver for my first gun).

Anyways, after we had gone through 3 boxes of ammo, I remarked to my cousin:

Me: "Wow, these 9mm's aren't too bad (recoil-wise)."
My Cousin: "9mm's? Dude, these are all 40 cal's!"
Me: "What?!?!?......"

Since he never told me what we were shooting (I just assumed 9mm's) I didn't have any negative expectations of "large caliber recoil". If I had known beforehand, my first shots would have probably been done with some flinching on my part. But since I assumed they were only 9mm's I wasn't scared (No, I had no idea what a 9mm was supposed to feel like but I knew it was smaller than a 40 cal, 45, 357 magnum, etc). I was basically scaring myself. And you may be doing the same.

Now, if I could just work up the nerve to shoot some .357's in my GP100........

Inspectorlee

[Edward429451]

I was basically scaring myself. And you may be doing the same.

This guys statement and story sums it all up. That little voice in the back of your mind that says it's going to hurt, it's going to....close your eyes (flinch).

By all means, be safe go slow have respect for the deadly implement, but tell the little voice to shut up and ignore him. Shoot a couple/few bigger guns and you'll see that it's a big bang, some recoil, but you lived right through it. People make recoil out to be more than it is. Experiance the reality of it and draw your own conclusion, like inspectorlee did.

[Mannlicher]

are you an adult? Sometimes children fear things like this.

[Demetrius]

I thank you for the responses. No, it is not recoil at all. It is the size of the ammunition. Here is a visual:



The top is a 22, the bottom, a 44 magnum; both are surely unforgiving of mistakes, but the bottom boomer sure looks a lot less forgiving

I am being facetious. But it is a perceptual distinction that makes me uncomfortable with larger caliber weapons. As a tyro I feel capable of handling a 22 safely, but larger calibers are a bit intimidating at this point. I am implementing some of the suggestions in the thread, even so. Likely it is my unfamiliarity with weapons that has generated this hiccup in my meteoric rise to the greatest marksman on my street. Growing up, guns were anathema in my family. Marshmallows too. Marshmallows were anathema.

But fears and misgivings are often mollified and mitigated by knowledge, so I am well on my way. Again, thank you kindly for the comments and suggestions.

[OBIWAN]

I have seen guys that are "trepidacious" about 12 ga shotguns

It usually goes away when they get their butts kicked at Clays by a 12 year old girl that weighs less than 100 lbs


I had a flinch with a .44mag...probably due to starting out with the most heinous loads I could find (ah...youth...stupid...stupid youth)

I got over it by randomly putting wimpy .44 spcl rounds interspersed with full power mag loads

After an afternoon of feeling really dumb when I was "pushing" the pistol on the wimpy loads I was cured

[pdkflyguy]

My wife went through this as well. (Not to harp on the manly-man thing, I know it happens to many people both men and women). She never wanted to shoot anything other than her .22 because she felt that even a 9mm was too much for her to handle.

To make a long story short, we started her shooting on a very heavy steel frame 9mm (S&W I think) so that the felt recoil of the round was not much more than her polymer .22 pistol. With the right teaching and a lot of practice, she was able to move on to polymer pistols, shooting 9mm rounds.

The make of the gun has a LOT to do with how the recoil affects you. Wait, let me rephrase...how a gun is made, and what is is made of, not the name on the side. The heavier the gun, the less you will feel the recoil. It's simple Newtonian physics. The bullet pushes back into your hand, and whatever isn't absorbed by the gun is absorbed by your palm, wrist, elbow, etc. Some manufacturers, like H&K on the USP, add a recoil reducer, which makes felt recoil a lot less. My wife can shoot a .40 with the USP.

As with every fear, the only way to get over it is to face it head on. Go to a range that offers lessons, and tell them about your trepidations. They should carefully and patiently walk you through getting used to the bigger load. And the more you practice, the less it will bother you until one day you look back and wonder why you ever had any doubts to begin with.

[armedandsafe]

FirstInLine and I used to shoot at an informal range with a group which incleded a fellow working up a 454 Casul to take to India for hunting. The guys were all standing around snickering when he handed the piece to her and asked if she would like to shoot it. "Little lady's gunna shoot the BIG pistol." She fired off 5 rounds of his extra-hot hunting loads, looked at the piece and asked if he had any more ammo. That was when they found out that her carry gun was a .357 3" with full bore loads, rather than the .38 Spl with target loads they had thought she was using.

Pops

[allenomics]

I would go so far as to say I cannot handle one safely

Use and train with what you can handle. No one will think that you are a wimp. Shooting .22LR is really fun.

[Groundhog]

Demetrius,

Could you clarify something for me? Are you more afraid of the damage the bullet of a larger size does or of the actual handling of the larger caliber weapon (like the recoil, etc.)

I had an eye opener the other day. I'm a member of a fairly quiet range and sometimes get the whole place to myself (boring really). We have lots of interesting target types. I shoot a 9mm because I don't feel that the difference between it and a .40 is significant, and a .45 gives me tennis elbow if I shoot it much. I figure 9 is fine and cheap to practice with a lot.

So, on with the story. One of the target types is old bowling pins. If you get a chance to go to the range and shoot one, try it with several calibers. I have only hit it with my 9. They bounce off. Not so much as a dent. Just a little scorch mark and some heat if you get to the pin fast enough. This just may cure you of feeling that anything over a .22 is awesomely powerful. I know the experience made me wonder if AP rounds were legal and if I should alternate that and the HPs in my carry mags!

[Mark B]

So it aint the thunder you fear, it's the lightning!

There's an old saying that goes; "I'd rather be missed by a 45 than hit by a 22." See folks have known for a long time that a 22 is just as dangerous as any of them if not handled responsibly. Besides, it will cost just as much to fix a hole in the wall caused by a .44 mag as it would one from a 22.

[Doggieman]

I think the only way to get over your fear is go out and shoot the d@mn things.