How much gun?

[Don Fischer]

I am not a big time fan of semi auto handguns but, that's what I carry, I have two, a Ruger P89 that I seldom carry and a Shield 9c that I carry 99.9% of the time. I think I'm like most other people, I don't believe my time of needing it will come. But at the same time should it come, I'd feel pretty stupid leaving it at home! I don't like recoil in a handgun so for carry my choice is smaller cartridge, lighter gun and thinner gun, help's conceal it and easier to carry. Added benefit of my gun it a bit more fire power, single stack 7+1 I think. If I carried a revolver, love DA revolver's, I'd only carry 5 shots. Granted it the fight last's longer than that, you have a serious problem. Well my shield gives me 7 or 8+ one in the chamber. I also carry one extra loaded magazine! Will I need it? If I do then I;m in serious trouble! I am very much a rifle shooter when I'm really serious and love my DA's for fooling around. But personal defense makes a whole different case of it. My DA's loose this bet for me. Not as easy to conceal, don't carry as much ammo and harder to hide. I only use reloaded cast bullet's in all my handguns, inexpensive and keep's recoil down. If I can't hit the bad guy, I can't stop him! I never worry about recoil getting in the way! I'm sure I might have a better edge with the right DA, I'd love a Colt in 38 with a 4" barrel but, doesn't carry enough rounds and to slow to reload! I think let the situation make the rules of what you carry! Then learn to use what you have.

[hdwhit]

OhioGuy wrote:
What made you decide how much gun to carry?

At one time, I was in a position that demanded I be armed much of the time. But, this was before Concealed Carry was as widespread as it is now, so concealability was paramount and I carried an RG-25, 25 ACP pistol.

Today, I rarely carry. When I do, I carry as much gun as I feel I need. Often this is still the RG-25 or the S&W 38 Special I inherited from my grandmother.

[Skadoosh]

Lots of misperceptions and misconceptions in this thread.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by Skadoosh

Lots of misperceptions and misconceptions in this thread.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Or, just lots of personal opinions and preferences. While lots of folks like to discuss and talk about training, it's a lot less common to find people seeking it out. It costs money and time (and no small amount of interest), and in many cases it's no doubt more than a little inconvenient.

So, if not having much in the way of formal (let alone recurrent) training exposure, it's not surprising a lot of folks default to feelings and personal opinions based upon reading, DVD's, etc.

I just noticed that the description of my J-frame 5 shot snubs in my first post was censored. Weird. Didn't know the word "shot" was a bad word. Left out the hyphenation in this post, to see if it made a difference to the software.

[Skadoosh]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

Or, just lots of personal opinions and preferences. While lots of folks like to discuss and talk about training, it's a lot less common to find people seeking it out. It costs money and time (and no small amount of interest), and in many cases it's no doubt more than a little inconvenient.

So, if not having much in the way of formal (let alone recurrent) training exposure, it's not surprising a lot of folks default to feelings and personal opinions based upon reading, DVD's, etc.

I just noticed that the description of my J-frame 5 shot snubs in my first post was censored. Weird. Didn't know the word "shot" was a bad word. Left out the hyphenation in this post, to see if it made a difference to the software.

Opinions and preferences are often based on mispreceptions and misconceptions.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by Skadoosh

Opinions and preferences are often based on mispreceptions and misconceptions.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

No argument from me.

However, some folks can also take a solid fact and apply it incorrectly, or use it to support some cherished opinion in some highly imaginative or alternative manner.

As an instructor, I've seen some folks come through the range now and again who I was able to help train to perform competently, if not greatly ... but they still walked off the range with many of the same misconceptions and highly biased opinions they walked on with when they'd arrived.

I wasn't there to change their world view or thinking, but just to refresh their grasp and understanding of existing policy, grasp of the relevant laws, appropriate use-of-force, the exercise of good judgment in decision-making, and the ability to demonstrate the required competency of skills in safely handling, and the use of, their weapons.

What's said on public internet forums? Yeah, sometimes it can be mind-boggling, and definitely make you wonder.

Then, I pull out on one of our roads or highways, occupied by all the licensed and unlicensed drivers, and then the internet sometimes doesn't seem so strange ...

[Kevin Rohrer]

I carry the minimum defensive caliber or better, as I don't trust anything smaller: .40S&W or .45ACP.

[Eod1]

I carry g36 on my person. If I need more my go bag is in my truck or car. It will have a specific load out.

[Skadoosh]

Originally Posted by Kevin Rohrer

I carry the minimum defensive caliber or better, as I don't trust anything smaller: .40S&W or .45ACP.

That's a incredibly uninformed comment.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We are starting to wander into silliness. That's a hint.

1. Caliber wars - boring, already well discussed that modern 9mm works just fine.
2. Car gun - if you need more and go to your car - drive away.
3. Number of rounds vs. not understanding statistical decision making a cutoff in the more extreme cases.

More silliness to be posted or is it time to end this?

[Don Fischer]

Yup! :-)

[Eod1]

Why, because you are sick of reading it. Don't poopoo A tread when you are not forced to read it. You have the right not to read this but you choose to. Go back to the car? Hell Ya!! If you want to take cover and just defend I'm not going to make fun of that .That's your right to do it. You might be defending your dog, ok. You might be defending your wife or yourself, OK. But if you think this guy or girl that starts shooting up the place and starts to change magazines are going to stop killing other people, think again. At sometime while this is going on and you are free and clear of anything that would stop you, It is your duty as a gun owner to defend the ones that don't have guns. That child in a stroller, the elderly the weak who knows. If need be kill the person needlessly killing others. Now if you don't feel comfortable or trained well enough to do this, stay down and if they come to you kill them. Now there are people out there that just want to defend, that's fine too, but don't go after the A positive people that will shoot move and communicate. That just doesn't make yourself look good.

[TailGator]

Eod1, you might want to realize that people whose names are in bold are moderators, responsible for keeping threads on track, civil, and such. Dr. Meyer is one of those.

[JoeSixpack]

I think the bottom line is really this.

how much gun is dependent on how you feel.
Statistically if you have good hits a 5 shot small framed 38spl will carry you thru.
I know several instructors that carry that and nothing else, not even a reload.

That would cover an avg shooting.

The real question is an internal one though.. do you feel comfortable carry such a gun?
I don't think anyone can really give anything other then there opinion on caliber and capacity, gun type.

Ya know I just replied to another thread the guy wants to carry a SA revolver for SD, Ya know what? If they're familiar and practiced with that gun then that matters more then anything.

First rule of a gun fight, Bring a gun.
That phrase does not state specifics.

[FireForged]

No reason to overintellectualize the process.. I simply want the most gun that I know I will carry on a regular basis. In the 80s I carried a 4" Smith 686, in the 90's it was a 1911 but by the late 90's I decided on the 9mm BHP and now in 2017 I carry a Glock43 more often than anything else. In summary, I have changed my mind over the years on what I am willing to carry on a daily basis. My home gun is still a Ruger Redhawk 44.. but I don't have to carry it around.

[CalmerThanYou]

^^Evolution of the firearm, ammunition and preference to carry....Makes a lot of sense to me.

[john in jax]

EDC is Glock 23 with an extra mag. When I can't dress around the 23 I carry a Glock 43 with an extra mag.

Every once in a while I will go full size 1911 with 2 extra mags. I love 1911s, and shoot them well, but it takes a lot to dress around that full sized gun and it is too hot to do that much of the year here in FL.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

EOD1 - we do not poopoo. We comment on cliches, posturing and suggestions that are not sound according to our best view of situations and expert opinions.

As staff we end endless repetitions of old ideas and threads that go nowhere.

You are free to find a forum that is more congruent with your ideas. In fact, TFL is rather gentle in its criticism of posts. I can suggest one or two that would savage a post like yours.

[ShootistPRS]

Although I am sure this has been stated I am going to say it for emphasis:
The best carry gun is the one you shoot well and can shoot fast accurate follow up shots with. It won't do you any good to carry a 950 super-duper magnum if you are afraid to pull the trigger because the only other time you fired it you spent the night in the hospital. You need to train with your carry gun and you need to practice that training with the gun you carry. You need to have an intimate relationship with the gun you carry. I has to be comfortable on you and in your hands.
For some people that gun will be a 22LR revolver, for some people it will be a 10mm semi-auto. Most people will fall somewhere between those two and some will choose beyond those two. Regardless of caliber, gun size or weight, and action type you should get professional training (more than once) and practice that training in an on-going regular schedule. I am a firm believer that one should plink, target shoot, get involved in different matches, and learn to shoot your carry gun in every conceivable position with both hands and each hand. Learn to shoot at close targets with your eyes on the target from the hip. (or at least without using the sights) The old adage that says beware of the man who owns just one gun because he likely knows how to use it is correct. Treat your carry gun like it is the only gun you own. Shoot at close range, intermediate ranges and outlandishly long ranges (for a pistol in your hands). Plink at ground targets... tin cans, pine cones or one of those "walking star" targets they sell. Shoot at targets to get really small groups and steel falling plates to get fast with your accuracy. The more you shoot your carry gun the better you get with it. You learn what you and it can do. You build confidence.
Practice drawing it from different positions (do this with the gun unloaded). Standing is the "normal" draw position but you might need it while driving your car with your seat belts on. You might have to draw it when you are curled up on your knees from a punch to the gut. The best way to find out how well your holster will work is to see what it is like to draw the gun from as many different positions as you can imagine. Learn to be smooth and accurate, then build the speed.

[OhioGuy]

Good thoughts, thanks to all who've replied! I haven't checked this thread lately

My usual rig is an XD subcompact with 12 rounds of 9mm. Recently I've acquired a Walther PPQ that holds 6 or 7 depending on the magazine (well, 7 or 8 if I load the chamber first). An extra mag for that one is very easy to keep in a pocket, vs the thick and heavy doublestacks for the XD.

The PPS is far easier to conceal under light clothing. You wouldn't think, since it's only about 1/4" thinner overall, but the grip is very contoured and slim and it doesn't print under a t-shirt, where the XD does.

So if I downgrade my carry, it's still 9mm and it's still at least 7 rounds, vs. the 12 I'd have otherwise.

The whole reason I posted this was after meeting a guy who carries a full-size gun with a full-size spare mag, then carries a .380 on his ankle (with a spare mag for that somewhere else). In fact this guy also had an emergency medical kit strapped to his other ankle, a knife in his back pocket and a pretty serious tactical flashlight on his belt (and a backup flashlight on his keychain).

Cops have told me that in many instances, would-be criminals are likely to flee if someone resists them, and especially if someone draws a gun. I won't bet my life on that, but I do often wonder how many times the difference between 7 rounds and 12 (or 18, 36, whatever) will ever come into play for a carrying citizen? As I think someone else said, if it ever comes to that, I'm probably screwed long before I get to those reloads!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The whole reason I posted this was after meeting a guy who carries a full-size gun with a full-size spare mag, then carries a .380 on his ankle (with a spare mag for that somewhere else). In fact this guy also had an emergency medical kit strapped to his other ankle, a knife in his back pocket and a pretty serious tactical flashlight on his belt (and a backup flashlight on his keychain).

That's not so unreasonable and not hard to do. I can carry a G19 and an extra mag with a floppy shirt for cover. I have a smaller Surefire in my pocket and a photon light on my key chain. A Delica on another pocket. I have gotten use out of the flashlight and knife in mundane situations quite a bit.

It's not hard to drop a tourniquet (like a SWAT-T in a back pocket).

Carrying the bug - folks do that also. Yes, they are carrying for the more extreme end of the incident continuum with concern with equipment failures.

It's a rig for the that tail of the distribution and not the single opponent who will be deterred point on the continuum.

However, it's not hard or uncomfortable to do. I guess the decision point is whether you are single mugger be gone or serious intensive critical incident.

You are OK with no gun if you are probabilistic. I spent a week in a NPE state with no incidents. But if one did happen - out of luck.

Everyone's mileage might vary. People vary in the emergency junk that they carry in their car. A shovel, chains, compressor, fire extinguisher, extra oil, transmission fluid, etc.

It is a curse of the Internet that if someone doesn't do what you do - they are nuts.

[JoeSixpack]

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

The whole reason I posted this was after meeting a guy who carries a full-size gun with a full-size spare mag, then carries a .380 on his ankle (with a spare mag for that somewhere else). In fact this guy also had an emergency medical kit strapped to his other ankle, a knife in his back pocket and a pretty serious tactical flashlight on his belt (and a backup flashlight on his keychain).

I don't really think that's excessive.

let's break it down.

1. he carries a full size gun.. so do I
While many won't because they find them to big, and many complain about weight, the reality going to be what? 2? 2 1/2 lb's max?
I carry OSB and don't find the size or weight to be an issue.
So this is just this persons preference.

2. Carries a spare mag.. well seems prudent to me, I carry 1 spare.. I'd make it 2 if it was not for the fact I have no room on the belt for more than 1 cause I prefer mag's lay horz rather than vert.

3. Med kit.
I guess this can take a lot of forms, Honestly he's more likely to have need and save a life with this then anything else he's carrying.
It would be useful for all incidents of injury.
I must admit I never thought to try and carry one as it seems like it would be bulky to carry, But I can hardly fault the person for carrying one.

4. He carries flash light, or "tactical light" not sure what the difference is.
I carry one too, I get almost daily use of this item.
Next time your in the deep interior of a building ask your self what you would do if the lights went out with no emergency lighting?.. that would be just one use.

5. He carries a knife in his back pocket.. fairly common.
Pocket knifes are useful.. I carry one, not as a weapon but as a tool.. although desperate times anything goes.
Next to the flash light this gets used often if only to open boxes.

6. He carries a ankle backup.
I just recently gave in and bought a "pocket" gun.
I resisted for a long time but now that I have one there are going to be times
when it's all im carrying, but even when im carrying my preferred gun OSB why not take it along?
I dedicated a pocket for it, I'd like to stay consistent and always have that pocket contain that gun.. I already own the thing so why wouldn't I carry it?

I'll add something to the list, Cigarette lighter, I don't smoke, can't stand them but it's a small item and can come in handy.

[Don Fischer]

How do you guy's make those quote's? EOD1 said something about it's your duty to protect those that don't have a gun. No it's not. It's your right to protect family, yourself and other's but only if you want to. The other's have the same right as you do and if they don't want to protect themselves, I am not obligated to protect them, it is not my duty!

I think some people get crazy with the whole thing. I know a guy was sitting in his truck with his wife shinning a light in the window of a local shop. Guy in the shop came out with some kind of weapon, board or a steel pipe, don't remember which. Instead of simply driving away the guy get's out of his truck with his concealed carry gun and confront's the guy. What he should have done way drive away! Lucky for min he is a prominent citizen in town and the other guy is a felon on parole! Cops were called and nothing came of it other than they told the guy in the truck he should have driven away!

[brian33x51]

Really carrying anything is better than carrying nothing, even a 22lr can make a difference.

The main issue is *comfort* followed by *concealability*.

I first carried a full sized colt 1911, 4-5 o'clock position. Then I switched over to a glock 20 in the same position. Then I switched over to a compact EAA witness in 40, and sometimes I carried a p3at in my left pocket. Later on for a while I just pocket carried the p3at...then stupidly let my CCW lapse...

I overloaded the p3at with lint, and I got rust on parts of all the other above pistols because I can sweat profusely on my back.

Some years later now I prefer appendix IWB carry with either a shield 9mm or p3at. I'll also carry an hk usp 40c compact or pt111 g2 OWB in the same general area. Slap on a single or dual mag carrier/pouch, why not?

I always carry a 3.5" utility folding knife in my front right pocket.

[BigSteveEM]

Carry the gun you Consistently Practice with and you can hit what your aiming at. Then when you can do that go about getting proper carry concealed gear to round out that package. Do not get an look at me attitude. This is serious business especially when confronted by law enforcement. Don't have an attitude, don't talk back and be 100% compliant. When you are confronted always announce if you are carrying and where it and your permit are located and what you would like me to do. Do Not Go Towards Your Firearm before told to. You will help deescalate what could be a nasty outcome for you. Use common sense always and loose the attitude and this has been told to me by many PO friend. They appreciate that. Good Luck!