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Old October 14, 2018, 10:23 AM   #1
John E.B. Rawton
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Walkers, Kirst and Cartridges.

So yesterday was my leap to the dark side. I don’t ever want to go back. For several years I shot smokeless with no trouble. I have two uberti factory conversions in .38 spl. (1851 and 1860 RM II) which shot all 30 rounds with no issue and I suspect would continue for another 30 or so.
I also have two uberti Walkers with Kirst converters and with those I only get about 10 rounds before it tightens up. I’ve come across some great info that was contrary to my original suspision of cylinder to barrel clearance being too tight. I have some things to check into when I clean them. Also add to it that they both shoot 6” high.
Question: should the arbor be heavily greased or assembled dry when shooting Black Powder?

Last edited by John E.B. Rawton; October 14, 2018 at 02:34 PM.
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Old October 14, 2018, 01:47 PM   #2
arcticap
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Greased with a BP compatible lube.
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:03 PM   #3
Hawg
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What he said.
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:37 PM   #4
John E.B. Rawton
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Good to know. I was shooting without grease on the arbor or cylinder thinking it would attract more fouling.
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Old October 15, 2018, 07:18 AM   #5
45 Dragoon
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I'd recommend Mobile 1 bearing grease. I'm sure you've already taken care of the arbor problem since you mentioned a tight barrel/cyl clearance. I'd keep a tight clearance, mine are .0015" but I shoot smokless only (with a very lightly lubed arbor (ballistol)). How big of a clearance are you running?

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Old October 15, 2018, 08:40 AM   #6
John E.B. Rawton
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I have not done anything yet as far as bedding the arbor. Tonight I want to get a feeler gauge in there to check the cylinder gap. I am assuming that is with the cylinder pull back due to the fact that when the hammer is down, the cylinder is pushed forward. I never really paid much attention to the movement of the kirst cylinder when I was shooting trailboss because the guns remained relatively clean.
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Old October 15, 2018, 08:54 AM   #7
John E.B. Rawton
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I realize I just put the cart in front of the horse. No sense in measuring cylinder gap until the arbor depth and bedding is resolved.
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Old October 15, 2018, 09:18 AM   #8
45 Dragoon
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Old October 20, 2018, 01:24 PM   #9
John E.B. Rawton
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I just drilled and tapped Uberti Walker arbor no. 1 for the bearing screw. From what I understand the most common practice is to set a spacer (washers) and secure with something like JB cold weld.
Has anyone used the tapped threads to attach a screw with a contoured head to meet the convexed bore end and then fine tune with shims? My thinking is that switching between the original c&b cylinder and the kirst cylinder may expose a slight difference in cylinder gap.
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Old October 20, 2018, 01:56 PM   #10
45 Dragoon
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A set screw in the end of the arbor isn't a good fix for the short arbor. A set screw in the end of the arbor (all the way through to the wedge slot) is a great "adjustable wedge bearing"! A solid puck or piece is preferred to a stack. I used a stack for quite a while with good results but " one piece " is better.

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Old October 20, 2018, 04:40 PM   #11
John E.B. Rawton
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A solid plug it is then. I will have to decide on the best cylinder gap that works for both kirst and the c&b. I can see as I fall down another rabbit hole, that I will most likely swap cylinders back n forth.
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Old October 21, 2018, 04:36 PM   #12
44caliberkid
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A Big Lube bullet will solve a lot of your cylinder binding from fouling problems. I can run a very snug gap with no problems using Big Lube bullets. Solves the binding problem with Uberti S&W replicas too.
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Old October 26, 2018, 08:32 PM   #13
John E.B. Rawton
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Dragoon,
Do you dress the end of the bearing screw in anyway? I know some set screws actually have teeth to create a bite.
Secondly, I was under the assumption that the cylinder clearance would be set with the hammer at full cock and the cylinder pulled back. Then I read a post that you wrote, explaining the hammer should be down as “fired” when setting the clearance.
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Old October 26, 2018, 09:15 PM   #14
45 Dragoon
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JR, yes, I remove the cutting surface and then polish it for a nice, smooth surface. It's a 1/4" set screw so it has plenty of surface area.

And, also yes, I like to check the barrel/cyl clearance with the hammer down and pulling the cylinder to the rear. Reason is, if the bolt wasn't set up properly and possibly hanging up on a burr or groove on the hammer, or the edge of the bolt window, or a bad relationship with the trigger, it may allow the bolt to not fully engage the locking notch at full cock. Not to mention, the hand could have a burr or machine mark keeping it in a locked state and not allowing full rear movement of the cylinder with the hammer in the full cock position. It's more likely that the bolt will be engaged fully with no other "influences" (hand and all things mentioned) with the hammer down or in ”as fired" state.

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Old October 27, 2018, 11:27 AM   #15
John E.B. Rawton
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Alright ... I finished setting up my two Walkers with percussion cylinders installed and ended with a clearance is .0025” for each. I found it interesting that the Kirst cylinders are so much shorter. The final clearance is .010” for them. I have not permanently imbedded the slugs in the arbor bore yet. I think I will cycle a few rounds and see what I think.
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Old October 27, 2018, 01:31 PM   #16
45 Dragoon
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That is a pretty good difference. Did you set the Kirsts up yourself? If not, I wonder if someone shortened the plate some since the arbor issue hadn't been delt with. They may have had issues with the cylinder locking up too easy and "fixed" it. That may be why the extra high poi (barrel canted up because of short arbor).
When setting up for multiple cyls, I setup the shortest and dress the others to fit.

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Old October 27, 2018, 01:57 PM   #17
John E.B. Rawton
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I had used the install provided by kirst. They were set up by their approved smith somewhere in Texas, but I can’t remember who. That was 2011.
So you see, I never knew what I didn’t know until now.
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Old November 5, 2018, 08:15 PM   #18
John E.B. Rawton
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Ok. So I reshaped the steel inserts that I am using to fix the short arbors, slowly eased in on my clearance and have a tight .002 with the percussion cylinders and near .004 for the kirst cylinders. I will live with it. The bearing screws are shaped and installed. There is no wedge wear so I may not thread lock them yet. I’ve got a few shooting supplies and am almost ready to hit the range with c&bs for the first time with these walkers. I am anxious to see if they shoot any differently.
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