Do you get fliers with your 17hmr? - Page 2

Picher · October 11, 2018, 07:05 AM

As to the claim that the last shot fired out of a magazine is a flyer, consider that cartridges in the magazine provide upward pressure on the forward part of the bolt, contributing to alignment with the bore. Changes in bolt position can cause variations in firing pin impacts with relation to the cartridge rim, hence affecting accuracy.

Examine the relative firing pin impacts of the last shot verses other shots. If there's a difference, consider modifying the firing pin, especially to impact a bit below the roll of the rim, regardless of the last shot fired. Since there's no priming compound at that point, the firing pin strikes will be deeper and more uniform if the top of the firing pin strike is just below that fold.

I learned that trick when accurizing 10-22s and modified my CZ firing pin, as described, and it made a difference in accuracy.

Mobuck · October 15, 2018, 06:54 AM

I opened another full carton (2010 production)of Hornady 17 grain V-max yesterday and from the first box had 1 hangfire and numerous split neck/shoulder cases. I also discovered two different colors of the plastic tips which produced different POI within the same box. Six of the 10 boxes in the sealed carton pack contained the varied color tips.
Lack of accuracy and POI shift was so serious that I just stopped shooting the 17 until I dig out some different ammo.

Picher · October 16, 2018, 08:43 AM

Mobuck: Did the unfired ammo have split neck/shoulder or fired cases?

My neighbor has a Savage .17 HMR that splits almost all cases. I suggested she return it to the dealer and it be sent to the factory for a new barrel with a verified chamber/headspace.

Mobuck · October 16, 2018, 08:02 PM

Splits only after firing. Happens in all three rifles we have (77/17, RAR 17, and CZ Scout switch barrel). Doesn't happen with fresh CCI or Winchester ammo.

Picher · October 30, 2018, 01:53 PM

I'm having a great time with my .17 HMR barrel on my CZ 455. Winchester isn't bad, but Hornady seems to be the most consistent, though some Lots aren't as good as others. I might get one flyer out of 8-10 rounds, but the rest are MOA or better. Having a blast with the little round, but have yet to have the occasion to use it on varmints, which is the main reason for buying the new barrel. Had it out on the range when sighting-in my .270s last week and put two shots about 3/8" apart an inch to the right at 100 yards, made adjustments to the scope and the next shot was a PINWHEEL. (I'm not so dumb as to shoot another shot. Ha ha.)

J.G. Terry · October 31, 2018, 07:45 AM

Winchester 17 HRM ammo: Come to think of it the 93R17 had been shot in a while. All I could find at Wally World was Winchester. Had four maybe five misfires in fifty rounds. Perhaps, that had gone sour in the store. Looks like age does these rounds no good.

I have the 93R17 and a 22RF BSEV. These rifles are ammo sensitive. Try to shoot any old thing in these guns and you will go nuts for accuracy. That is, unless you are lucky. I have to ask myself what is the reasonable rifle accuracy. I have to ask what is my limit of my reasonable accuracy. I find the latter is the problem frequently. That would be with the right cartridges. Not here but you can get misled by accuracy claims on the net.

Zen Archery · October 31, 2018, 08:56 AM

after it gets hot... but its a .17HMR....

Picher · November 1, 2018, 10:48 AM

For those folks using .17 HMR: How often do you clean your bores? If you're used to shooting .22LRs and not cleaning bores because they're coated with wax from coated bullets, you may be surprised that your .17 HMR bore may be rusting, after shooting and putting it away dirty. This applies even more so to those who live in humid areas/times of year.

It may not be necessary to scrub the bore, but consider running a patch through it with Break-Free or some other rust preventative, preferably starting from the chamber. Running a dry patch through, or just firing a shot could better assure zero for the next shot.

Zen Archery · November 1, 2018, 12:22 PM

i only clean when it gets really wonky. which ive learned is around 500-600 rounds.

Picher · November 1, 2018, 07:38 PM

Although bores get metal fouling when fired, the worse part about not cleaning is that they become unprotected from moisture/corrosion. When they get corroded, the next firing accumulates more metal fouling.

Fouling isn't as noticeable, nor harmful when the surface area is a relatively small area, compared with the mass of the slug. However there's a big difference in a 17 caliber, compared with, say a 30 caliber, so a little fouling can have a lot more effect on accuracy/pressure.

I'm of the opinion that we need to keep .17 HMR bores and chambers clean and protected very well, or they can not only lose accuracy, but increase pressures.

Mobuck · November 3, 2018, 06:02 AM

The 17 HMR is one of the most finicky about a certain level of fouling that I've seen. Some like to be fairly clean and some do better with several shots after cleaning. Maybe not as bad as one 22lr I have that takes 50 rounds to "get back in the groove" but my 17 HMR's don't like being clean.

October 31, 2018, 07:45 AM	#31
J.G. Terry Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2014 Posts: 577	Winchester Ammo Winchester 17 HRM ammo: Come to think of it the 93R17 had been shot in a while. All I could find at Wally World was Winchester. Had four maybe five misfires in fifty rounds. Perhaps, that had gone sour in the store. Looks like age does these rounds no good. I have the 93R17 and a 22RF BSEV. These rifles are ammo sensitive. Try to shoot any old thing in these guns and you will go nuts for accuracy. That is, unless you are lucky. I have to ask myself what is the reasonable rifle accuracy. I have to ask what is my limit of my reasonable accuracy. I find the latter is the problem frequently. That would be with the right cartridges. Not here but you can get misled by accuracy claims on the net. __________________ Intentionally Antagonizing Another MemberInsults and Ad Hominems Last edited by J.G. Terry; October 31, 2018 at 07:47 AM. Reason: SOS

October 31, 2018, 08:56 AM	#32
Zen Archery Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Posts: 274	after it gets hot... but its a .17HMR.... __________________ Video Hunting Library

November 1, 2018, 12:22 PM	#34
Zen Archery Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Posts: 274	i only clean when it gets really wonky. which ive learned is around 500-600 rounds. __________________ Video Hunting Library

October 11, 2018, 07:05 AM	#26
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	As to the claim that the last shot fired out of a magazine is a flyer, consider that cartridges in the magazine provide upward pressure on the forward part of the bolt, contributing to alignment with the bore. Changes in bolt position can cause variations in firing pin impacts with relation to the cartridge rim, hence affecting accuracy. Examine the relative firing pin impacts of the last shot verses other shots. If there's a difference, consider modifying the firing pin, especially to impact a bit below the roll of the rim, regardless of the last shot fired. Since there's no priming compound at that point, the firing pin strikes will be deeper and more uniform if the top of the firing pin strike is just below that fold. I learned that trick when accurizing 10-22s and modified my CZ firing pin, as described, and it made a difference in accuracy.

October 15, 2018, 06:54 AM	#27
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I opened another full carton (2010 production)of Hornady 17 grain V-max yesterday and from the first box had 1 hangfire and numerous split neck/shoulder cases. I also discovered two different colors of the plastic tips which produced different POI within the same box. Six of the 10 boxes in the sealed carton pack contained the varied color tips. Lack of accuracy and POI shift was so serious that I just stopped shooting the 17 until I dig out some different ammo.

October 16, 2018, 08:43 AM	#28
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Mobuck: Did the unfired ammo have split neck/shoulder or fired cases? My neighbor has a Savage .17 HMR that splits almost all cases. I suggested she return it to the dealer and it be sent to the factory for a new barrel with a verified chamber/headspace.

October 16, 2018, 08:02 PM	#29
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Splits only after firing. Happens in all three rifles we have (77/17, RAR 17, and CZ Scout switch barrel). Doesn't happen with fresh CCI or Winchester ammo.

October 30, 2018, 01:53 PM	#30
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	I'm having a great time with my .17 HMR barrel on my CZ 455. Winchester isn't bad, but Hornady seems to be the most consistent, though some Lots aren't as good as others. I might get one flyer out of 8-10 rounds, but the rest are MOA or better. Having a blast with the little round, but have yet to have the occasion to use it on varmints, which is the main reason for buying the new barrel. Had it out on the range when sighting-in my .270s last week and put two shots about 3/8" apart an inch to the right at 100 yards, made adjustments to the scope and the next shot was a PINWHEEL. (I'm not so dumb as to shoot another shot. Ha ha.)

November 1, 2018, 10:48 AM	#33
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	For those folks using .17 HMR: How often do you clean your bores? If you're used to shooting .22LRs and not cleaning bores because they're coated with wax from coated bullets, you may be surprised that your .17 HMR bore may be rusting, after shooting and putting it away dirty. This applies even more so to those who live in humid areas/times of year. It may not be necessary to scrub the bore, but consider running a patch through it with Break-Free or some other rust preventative, preferably starting from the chamber. Running a dry patch through, or just firing a shot could better assure zero for the next shot.

November 1, 2018, 07:38 PM	#35
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	Although bores get metal fouling when fired, the worse part about not cleaning is that they become unprotected from moisture/corrosion. When they get corroded, the next firing accumulates more metal fouling. Fouling isn't as noticeable, nor harmful when the surface area is a relatively small area, compared with the mass of the slug. However there's a big difference in a 17 caliber, compared with, say a 30 caliber, so a little fouling can have a lot more effect on accuracy/pressure. I'm of the opinion that we need to keep .17 HMR bores and chambers clean and protected very well, or they can not only lose accuracy, but increase pressures.

November 3, 2018, 06:02 AM	#36
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	The 17 HMR is one of the most finicky about a certain level of fouling that I've seen. Some like to be fairly clean and some do better with several shots after cleaning. Maybe not as bad as one 22lr I have that takes 50 rounds to "get back in the groove" but my 17 HMR's don't like being clean.