Schmidt-Rubin vs K31 are they the same gun?

Rustle in the Bushes · June 5, 2011, 12:44 PM

Im bracing for a flaming but i looked this up on wikipedia and am still confused. I see a couple schmidt-rubins for sale at a local gun store. I hear k31s are amazing. Are schmidt-rubins k31s? are k31s schmidt rubins? If so then why werent they called k31s?

ohen cepel · June 5, 2011, 12:55 PM

schmidt-rubins is the maker (ie, Ford)
K31 is the model (F150 truck)

schmidt-rubin made other rifles besides the K31, just as Ford made other trucks/cars.

Jim Watson · June 5, 2011, 01:03 PM

The Schmidt Rubin straight pull came out in 1889 with updates and redesigns along the way. The K31 is pretty much the final development of Swiss straight pulls. Wiki says it is so far departed from the 1889, 1898, and 1911 guns as to no longer be considered a Schmidt Rubin, but that won't change popular nomenclature.

So you will see older Schmidt Rubins that are not K31s.

zfk55 · June 5, 2011, 02:21 PM

Nope. Neither is correct. The k31 means Karabiner 31 (Year of issue)

The Karabiner Modell 1931 was a fully new design by Waffenfabrik Bern under Colonel Furrer and the first 200 troop trial rifles were made May 1931

Rudolf Schmidt (1832-1898 ) had long since died by the time the K31 was introduced and Eduard Rubin (1846 - 1920) was the one that was responsible for ammunition designs like the GP11.
Typical rifle designs by Schmidt were the 1889 rifle and the 1889/96 with the newer 1896 action that we also find in the later 1911 series .

Latigo

Webleymkv · June 5, 2011, 02:21 PM

Properly, only the earlier guns are technically Schmidt-Rubins. The K31 is closely enough related to them (simply the final refinement of the design) that they are commonly called Schmidt-Rubins as well. Kind of the same as the whole magazine vs. clip thing. FWIW, most people seem to think that the K31 is the best of the series though I've met an odd person here or there that likes the G11 or K11 better.

zfk55 · June 5, 2011, 02:25 PM

If you're not sure about that "fully new design" statement, go here and see for yourself.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

Latigo

Eghad · June 5, 2011, 04:08 PM

I really like my K31 as well damn fine rifle.

Rustle in the Bushes · June 5, 2011, 05:55 PM

Yeah everyone seems to love their k31. Testimonies like these are slowly winning me over, I was originally going to buy an enfield.

Doesnt help that I have two k31s staring me down at the shop 10 minutes away from my house.

So these guns are schmidt rubin 1931s. Thats a k31, right? I think I get it.
What do you guys think, 500$ for one of these that seems to be in ok condition? Its sitting next to a mauser for $850

twins · June 5, 2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

I hear k31s are amazing

In comparison to other available mil-surplus out there, the K31 is in a different tier for accuracy and refinement. Once you break one down, the engineering aspects and fit/finish of the rifle really shows.

twins · June 5, 2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

What do you guys think, 500$ for one of these that seems to be in ok condition? Its sitting next to a mauser for $850

Hopefully that's not in US$.

An ok/good condition K31 should be around $200 US.

Try Allan's Armory, there's several around $200.

Rattlehead · June 5, 2011, 07:14 PM

I wouldn't pay $500 for one. It's an outstanding milsurp rifle and I'd highly recommend it, but there's no need to be dropping that kind of change for one. If you can't locate one in the $200-300 range, hold out until you can. Check J&G and Aim Surplus regularly.

zfk55 · June 5, 2011, 08:58 PM

Sorry, RIB. You didn't get it. A schmidt Rubin is not a k31. Read below or my post above.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope. Neither is correct. The k31 means Karabiner 31 (Year of issue)

The Karabiner Modell 1931 was a fully new design by Waffenfabrik Bern under Colonel Furrer and the first 200 troop trial rifles were made May 1931

Rudolf Schmidt (1832-1898 ) had long since died by the time the K31 was introduced and Eduard Rubin (1846 - 1920) was the one that was responsible for ammunition designs like the GP11.
Typical rifle designs by Schmidt were the 1889 rifle and the 1889/96 with the newer 1896 action that we also find in the later 1911 series .

Latigo

madcratebuilder · June 6, 2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfk55

Sorry, RIB. You didn't get it. A schmidt Rubin is not a k31. Read below or my post above.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope. Neither is correct. The k31 means Karabiner 31 (Year of issue)

The Karabiner Modell 1931 was a fully new design by Waffenfabrik Bern under Colonel Furrer and the first 200 troop trial rifles were made May 1931

Rudolf Schmidt (1832-1898 ) had long since died by the time the K31 was introduced and Eduard Rubin (1846 - 1920) was the one that was responsible for ammunition designs like the GP11.
Typical rifle designs by Schmidt were the 1889 rifle and the 1889/96 with the newer 1896 action that we also find in the later 1911 series .

+1

You well see many people refer to the K31 as a Schmidt-Rubin but it is not. Read the link zfk55 posted, it well break down the time line and different designs and names.

$500 is to much for the average K31, $250 is the average price I see today. Nicer furniture well bring a higher price.

June 5, 2011, 12:44 PM	#1
Rustle in the Bushes Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Location: Canada- West Posts: 175	Schmidt-Rubin vs K31 are they the same gun? Im bracing for a flaming but i looked this up on wikipedia and am still confused. I see a couple schmidt-rubins for sale at a local gun store. I hear k31s are amazing. Are schmidt-rubins k31s? are k31s schmidt rubins? If so then why werent they called k31s?

June 5, 2011, 12:55 PM	#2
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	schmidt-rubins is the maker (ie, Ford) K31 is the model (F150 truck) schmidt-rubin made other rifles besides the K31, just as Ford made other trucks/cars. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

June 5, 2011, 02:21 PM	#4
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	Nope. Neither is correct. The k31 means Karabiner 31 (Year of issue) The Karabiner Modell 1931 was a fully new design by Waffenfabrik Bern under Colonel Furrer and the first 200 troop trial rifles were made May 1931 Rudolf Schmidt (1832-1898 ) had long since died by the time the K31 was introduced and Eduard Rubin (1846 - 1920) was the one that was responsible for ammunition designs like the GP11. Typical rifle designs by Schmidt were the 1889 rifle and the 1889/96 with the newer 1896 action that we also find in the later 1911 series . Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

June 5, 2011, 02:25 PM	#6
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	If you're not sure about that "fully new design" statement, go here and see for yourself. http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/ Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'

June 5, 2011, 04:08 PM	#7
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	I really like my K31 as well damn fine rifle. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

June 5, 2011, 01:03 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The Schmidt Rubin straight pull came out in 1889 with updates and redesigns along the way. The K31 is pretty much the final development of Swiss straight pulls. Wiki says it is so far departed from the 1889, 1898, and 1911 guns as to no longer be considered a Schmidt Rubin, but that won't change popular nomenclature. So you will see older Schmidt Rubins that are not K31s.

June 5, 2011, 02:21 PM	#5
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Properly, only the earlier guns are technically Schmidt-Rubins. The K31 is closely enough related to them (simply the final refinement of the design) that they are commonly called Schmidt-Rubins as well. Kind of the same as the whole magazine vs. clip thing. FWIW, most people seem to think that the K31 is the best of the series though I've met an odd person here or there that likes the G11 or K11 better.

June 5, 2011, 05:55 PM	#8
Rustle in the Bushes Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Location: Canada- West Posts: 175	Yeah everyone seems to love their k31. Testimonies like these are slowly winning me over, I was originally going to buy an enfield. Doesnt help that I have two k31s staring me down at the shop 10 minutes away from my house. So these guns are schmidt rubin 1931s. Thats a k31, right? I think I get it. What do you guys think, 500$ for one of these that seems to be in ok condition? Its sitting next to a mauser for $850

June 5, 2011, 07:14 PM	#11
Rattlehead Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 244	I wouldn't pay $500 for one. It's an outstanding milsurp rifle and I'd highly recommend it, but there's no need to be dropping that kind of change for one. If you can't locate one in the $200-300 range, hold out until you can. Check J&G and Aim Surplus regularly.

June 5, 2011, 08:58 PM	#12
zfk55 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Lost Prairie Montana Posts: 391	Sorry, RIB. You didn't get it. A schmidt Rubin is not a k31. Read below or my post above. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nope. Neither is correct. The k31 means Karabiner 31 (Year of issue) The Karabiner Modell 1931 was a fully new design by Waffenfabrik Bern under Colonel Furrer and the first 200 troop trial rifles were made May 1931 Rudolf Schmidt (1832-1898 ) had long since died by the time the K31 was introduced and Eduard Rubin (1846 - 1920) was the one that was responsible for ammunition designs like the GP11. Typical rifle designs by Schmidt were the 1889 rifle and the 1889/96 with the newer 1896 action that we also find in the later 1911 series . Latigo __________________ www.swissproductsllc.com An'' ole' Brer' Rabbit, he set in de bushes, he watch an' he wait, lay low an' he don' say nuffin'