Home Defence

roadrocket · June 2, 2009, 12:13 PM

After reading so many forums on home defense talking about using 00 buckshot loads and other heavy loads, I decided to experiment with an ounce 7.5 clay load at 15 paces.See here the result

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ney2_rIs0A4

I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit

hogdogs · June 2, 2009, 12:22 PM

Link not working for me...
Try just copy pasting the address from the top window... looks like this when done...
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...te=1&p=3522857
Brent

hogdogs · June 2, 2009, 12:36 PM

Lots of damage and nice tight pattern...
As lethal as it may be, I will continue to stick with buck shot.
Brent

Willie Lowman · June 2, 2009, 01:11 PM

This debate has been done to death on TFL and many other forums.

I can't see what blasting a vegie is going to prove or change in the eyes of the dubba ought buck masses.

Defense against turnips huh? We have problems with zombies round here...

Lee Lapin · June 2, 2009, 08:33 PM

I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit

Then you should read this medical examiner's report from Australia... http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n/herdson.html

In February 1995, a death in parkland close to residential property in Canberra was reported to the Australian Federal Police. The body of a man had been found at the edge of a steep slope, about 150 metres from his home. He was lying on his left side with his head towards the top of a ridge. There was a lot of blood on his right shoulder and an obvious injury to the lower jaw and neck. A pump-action shotgun was lying about a metre from the body with the barrel facing up the slope, and a pair of shoes lay next to the gun. The action of the gun was open and contained a fired No. 2 shot shell case which had not been ejected. The muzzle end of the barrel was bloodstained and smudged, consistent with the barrel being held by both hands.
Initially, it appeared to be a straightforward shotgun suicide. When the body was turned over, however, two additional gunshot entry wounds were seen on the chest. To suicide was added the possibility of murder. //snip

lpl

Thermodyne · June 2, 2009, 11:02 PM

What load you use depends on the surrounding and state where you live. In the house open bore with an ounce of BB's is good. For out and about the property Rhodesian's would get my vote.

T.A.Sharps · June 3, 2009, 10:04 AM

I don't know why people always want to use bird shot for home defence, it is unsafe and can fail to penetrate enough to put a man down before he harms you or those around you.

Why on Earth do people want to risk their lives just to shoot birdshot at an intruder?????

There is no extra effort in moving your hand to the right to pick up the box of buckshot, or box of slugs instead.

If you have a man aiming a gun at you, do you want the gun that should work, or the gun that WILL work?

"I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit..."
Pure inexperienced opinion.

You would trust your life, and your family's life to that because it shot a TURNIP once?

oneounceload · June 3, 2009, 10:20 AM

I need to go make some popcorn for this one....

zippy13 · June 3, 2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

I need to go make some popcorn for this one....

Please, make plenty so you can share.

bigdad · June 3, 2009, 11:28 AM

Make mine with plenty of butter please.

hogdogs · June 3, 2009, 11:37 AM

Considering that good high brass hot loads of bird shot is not a substantial savings over my Winchester Super "X" 00 that have been droppin' deer for my family freezers since well before 1976...
I will stick with that... I would however use a sling shot if that was all I had...
Brent

stargazer65 · June 3, 2009, 11:46 AM

I was a submariner in the Navy. Our defensive shotguns were 12 gauge pumps with 00BK. At least they were, every time I regualified. I figure someone did some research to decide what to issue to us...I hope anyway.

So I'm using the same thing for my house.

Kmar40 · June 3, 2009, 01:41 PM

Seriously? Blasting vegetables?

Tucker 1371 · June 3, 2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

I would however use a sling shot if that was all I had...

My go to was a paintball gun once, before my grandfather (the man who taught me to shoot) allowed me to move my guns over from his house.

The plan at that time was to pump .68 cal paintballs @ 350fps (hotter than most fields will allow) and 15 balls/second into the BG's face. I actually think it would have worked, paintballs at ranges up to 150ft can permanently damage/destroy the eyes and ears. Shots to where the sun don't shine can put you out of action really quick for a long time too

. Unfortunately I know this from experience

.

tacticalmedic · June 3, 2009, 03:09 PM

http://www.shadonet.com/2008/01/choo...-home-defense/

You really need to check this out before using birdshot. In my 20+ yrs in EMS, I've seen quite a few people walk away after getting hit with birdshot. One was point blank to the head. 00 or slugs do the job.

VA9mm · June 3, 2009, 03:09 PM

Not that a turnip is a good medium to test ammo performance, but you should have shot one with buckshot as well for comparison.

davebig · June 3, 2009, 03:20 PM

That turnip didnt do anything, but that bad guy plans on it. Be safe and go smart.

cavymeister · June 3, 2009, 04:34 PM

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

You can't hunt deer with bird shot, because it's inhumane. What would a jury say to maiming someone with birdshot.

Kmar40 · June 3, 2009, 06:12 PM

I'm going to use 7 1/2 shot if I find that Bob the Tomato and Larry the Cucumber are on a burglary spree... no doubt in my mind.

Anyone see the movie The Birds? Very scarey. You'd need lotsa birdshot in one of those scenarios.

Tinkerbell... you could take her out with birdshot.

There has to be more that I'm forgetting.

hogdogs · June 3, 2009, 06:31 PM

Them were crows/ravens in the birds Or was it seagulls?
Either way I would want 6, 5 or 4 bird shot for them...
Brent

J2. · June 3, 2009, 07:58 PM

Very interesting to say the least. For me and my family, OO is good. Or maybe a sluggster or two would work?

BuckHammer · June 3, 2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavymeister

You can't hunt deer with bird shot, because it's inhumane.

+1, I also use "The Deer Standard" (that's what I call it anyway) for home defense. I only use firearms and ammunition for home defense that I can trust to reliably and humanely kill deer.

Zilmo · June 4, 2009, 12:24 AM

Brigadier · June 4, 2009, 11:02 AM

Pics courtesy of tacticalworks.ca

#8 heavy dove birdshot into ballistic gelatin. Max penetration: insufficient.

Kmar40 · June 5, 2009, 06:19 PM

Anybody have a picture of birdshot vs. tomatoes? That Bob the Tomato guy is always eyeballing me. I think he's up to no good.

June 2, 2009, 12:13 PM	#1
roadrocket Member Join Date: September 17, 2007 Posts: 72	Home Defence After reading so many forums on home defense talking about using 00 buckshot loads and other heavy loads, I decided to experiment with an ounce 7.5 clay load at 15 paces.See here the result http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ney2_rIs0A4 I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit

June 2, 2009, 12:22 PM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Link not working for me... Try just copy pasting the address from the top window... looks like this when done... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...te=1&p=3522857 Brent Last edited by hogdogs; June 2, 2009 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Never mind... fixed...

June 2, 2009, 01:11 PM	#4
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	This debate has been done to death on TFL and many other forums. I can't see what blasting a vegie is going to prove or change in the eyes of the dubba ought buck masses. Defense against turnips huh? We have problems with zombies round here... __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

June 3, 2009, 10:04 AM	#7
T.A.Sharps Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2007 Posts: 675	I don't know why people always want to use bird shot for home defence, it is unsafe and can fail to penetrate enough to put a man down before he harms you or those around you. Why on Earth do people want to risk their lives just to shoot birdshot at an intruder????? There is no extra effort in moving your hand to the right to pick up the box of buckshot, or box of slugs instead. If you have a man aiming a gun at you, do you want the gun that should work, or the gun that WILL work? "I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit..." Pure inexperienced opinion. You would trust your life, and your family's life to that because it shot a TURNIP once? __________________ " ...Said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it..." "Your reality, sir, is lies and bladerdash, and I am delighted to say I have no grasp of it whatsoever!" Last edited by T.A.Sharps; June 3, 2009 at 10:09 AM.

June 3, 2009, 11:37 AM	#11
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Considering that good high brass hot loads of bird shot is not a substantial savings over my Winchester Super "X" 00 that have been droppin' deer for my family freezers since well before 1976... I will stick with that... I would however use a sling shot if that was all I had... Brent Last edited by hogdogs; June 6, 2009 at 07:42 AM.

June 2, 2009, 12:36 PM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Lots of damage and nice tight pattern... As lethal as it may be, I will continue to stick with buck shot. Brent

June 2, 2009, 08:33 PM	#5
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	I can't imagine any one walking away after being hit Then you should read this medical examiner's report from Australia... http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/...n/herdson.html In February 1995, a death in parkland close to residential property in Canberra was reported to the Australian Federal Police. The body of a man had been found at the edge of a steep slope, about 150 metres from his home. He was lying on his left side with his head towards the top of a ridge. There was a lot of blood on his right shoulder and an obvious injury to the lower jaw and neck. A pump-action shotgun was lying about a metre from the body with the barrel facing up the slope, and a pair of shoes lay next to the gun. The action of the gun was open and contained a fired No. 2 shot shell case which had not been ejected. The muzzle end of the barrel was bloodstained and smudged, consistent with the barrel being held by both hands. Initially, it appeared to be a straightforward shotgun suicide. When the body was turned over, however, two additional gunshot entry wounds were seen on the chest. To suicide was added the possibility of murder. //snip lpl

June 2, 2009, 11:02 PM	#6
Thermodyne Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2009 Posts: 111	What load you use depends on the surrounding and state where you live. In the house open bore with an ounce of BB's is good. For out and about the property Rhodesian's would get my vote.

June 3, 2009, 10:20 AM	#8
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	I need to go make some popcorn for this one....

June 3, 2009, 11:28 AM	#10
bigdad Junior Member Join Date: May 6, 2008 Posts: 10	Make mine with plenty of butter please.

June 3, 2009, 11:46 AM	#12
stargazer65 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 761	I was a submariner in the Navy. Our defensive shotguns were 12 gauge pumps with 00BK. At least they were, every time I regualified. I figure someone did some research to decide what to issue to us...I hope anyway. So I'm using the same thing for my house. __________________ "I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards

June 3, 2009, 01:41 PM	#13
Kmar40 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 668	Seriously? Blasting vegetables?

June 3, 2009, 03:09 PM	#15
tacticalmedic Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 193	Good overview of buckshot vs birdshot http://www.shadonet.com/2008/01/choo...-home-defense/ You really need to check this out before using birdshot. In my 20+ yrs in EMS, I've seen quite a few people walk away after getting hit with birdshot. One was point blank to the head. 00 or slugs do the job.

June 3, 2009, 03:09 PM	#16
VA9mm Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: N. VA Posts: 254	Not that a turnip is a good medium to test ammo performance, but you should have shot one with buckshot as well for comparison. __________________ “The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall

June 3, 2009, 03:20 PM	#17
davebig Member Join Date: April 9, 2009 Posts: 20	That turnip didnt do anything, but that bad guy plans on it. Be safe and go smart.

June 3, 2009, 04:34 PM	#18
cavymeister Member Join Date: January 12, 2009 Posts: 28	http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm You can't hunt deer with bird shot, because it's inhumane. What would a jury say to maiming someone with birdshot.

June 3, 2009, 06:12 PM	#19
Kmar40 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 668	I'm going to use 7 1/2 shot if I find that Bob the Tomato and Larry the Cucumber are on a burglary spree... no doubt in my mind. Anyone see the movie The Birds? Very scarey. You'd need lotsa birdshot in one of those scenarios. Tinkerbell... you could take her out with birdshot. There has to be more that I'm forgetting.

June 3, 2009, 06:31 PM	#20
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Them were crows/ravens in the birds Or was it seagulls? Either way I would want 6, 5 or 4 bird shot for them... Brent

June 3, 2009, 07:58 PM	#21
J2. Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2008 Location: The Real America Posts: 149	Very interesting to say the least. For me and my family, OO is good. Or maybe a sluggster or two would work? __________________ "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

June 4, 2009, 12:24 AM	#23
Zilmo Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Location: At home. Posts: 369

June 5, 2009, 06:19 PM	#25
Kmar40 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 668	Anybody have a picture of birdshot vs. tomatoes? That Bob the Tomato guy is always eyeballing me. I think he's up to no good.

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