Loading 40 s&w- chicken now - Page 2

Edward429451 · January 29, 2011, 01:42 PM

You guys can control your weight a little better of your cast rounds if you control your pot temps more accurately. What happens is the melt gets hotter as the pot empties.

Artover3 · January 30, 2011, 10:08 PM

Going to load plated bullets for the 40. I may melt some 40 s&w some day. Good point edward on the pot temp, I'll turn my stove down as it gets to lower level. Heres a pic of my bullet casting station. The stove is a backpacking stove by svea, when it gets going it is loud.
Thanks for the link rangefinder.

WESHOOT2 · February 1, 2011, 07:01 AM

For Glock 40:

Rainier 180g TCJ-FP
CCI500 / WSP
Sized case
OAL 1.130"+/-.005"
start load 5.4g Power Pistol (recommend MAX 6.0g)

Ensure case neck tension.

flyboyjake · February 1, 2011, 01:43 PM

I didnt read all the responses so sorry if I am redundant.

Glocks suffer the KB crap not because they are more likely to KB (many pistols have the "unsupported chamber" issue). They are in the limelight because there are 5 times more glock pistols in that caliber than any other single brand. It stands to reason that even with a similar fail rate as another brand, you will see more failures with more guns.

If you are nervous get a lone wolf barrel which is supported better and uses button rifling, but I have reloaded over 20k bullets in my glock 22 with brass found at the range and havent had an issue. This is not to say you should, just saying I have, and I feel comfortable doing it. Inspect your brass like you would any other caliber.

Clark · February 2, 2011, 01:52 AM

Quote:

flyboyjake
Junior Member

Join Date: February 19, 2010
Posts: 7
I didnt read all the responses so sorry if I am redundant.

Glocks suffer the KB crap not because they are more likely to KB (many pistols have the "unsupported chamber" issue). They are in the limelight because there are 5 times more glock pistols in that caliber than any other single brand. It stands to reason that even with a similar fail rate as another brand, you will see more failures with more guns.

If you are nervous get a lone wolf barrel which is supported better and uses button rifling, but I have reloaded over 20k bullets in my glock 22 with brass found at the range and havent had an issue. This is not to say you should, just saying I have, and I feel comfortable doing it. Inspect your brass like you would any other caliber.

The SAAMI registered drawing for the 40 S&W chamber shows .4274" + .004" at a point .2" in front of the breech face.
That would be a maximum allowable inside diameter of .4314" at .2" inside.
My Glock 22 is so old that when I got it 10 years ago, the night sights were dim.
It has a measurement a Starrett hole gauge of .440".
I have some pf my feed ramp weld up in the way now, so I can only get a .335" pin gauge past the weld, but it is bigger that that.

You are thinking that Glock made a .008" over size chamber, so what?
Ammo and chambers are almost always at the extreme small end of the allowable SAAMI tolerance range.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

My Glock 22 used to be wimpy with case bulges, but I fixed it with TIG weld.

Since I welded up the Glock 22, I have been able to fire a 44 magnum max load 15.5 gr 800X 200 gr bullet. The recoil is horrific and it is amazing the chamber has not split, as it is only .08" thick. That is 146% more powder than max published load for the 40sw.

BDS-THR · February 2, 2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Glocks suffer the KB crap not because they are more likely to KB (many pistols have the "unsupported chamber" issue). They are in the limelight because there are 5 times more glock pistols in that caliber than any other single brand. It stands to reason that even with a similar fail rate as another brand, you will see more failures with more guns.

flyboyjake, I am a Glock fan but a realistic shooter/reloader. Yes, I agree that Gen3/Gen4 barrels are more comparable to other factory barrels in terms of chamber looseness and case base support at the ramp area. But another factor we need to consider is that NONE of the other factory barrels have Glock proprietary hexagonal polygonal rifling. When Glock was first introduced, they touted this rifling and tightness in the barrel bore with the bullet to produced higher velocity than traditional land/groove rifling due to less powder ignition gas leaking around the bullet.

This has been proven with same length Glock barrels producing higher muzzle velocities than other factory barrels. If Glock barrels are producing higher velocities, it means they are also producing high chamber pressures.

If you reload, you should take this into consideration and be careful when pushing max load data in Glocks that were pressure tested using fixtures with traditional land/groove rifling as the tighter polygonal rifling will exceed published max velocities/pressures.

Some have posted that they experienced KBs with mid range load data. This maybe due to using range brass that someone else shot over-max loads or brass that's been reloaded/resized multiple times and developed weak areas in the case.

My suggestion is that if you see bulges in your reloads, lower the powder charge or use a different powder. If you want to keep shooting high-near max reloads that bulge cases, consider using tight chambered Lone Wolf barrels that won't bulge the case. I don't recommend shooting over-max loads in any barrel.

Be safe, but enjoy your Glock.

flyboyjake · February 2, 2011, 01:56 PM

Clark, that is amazing. I have read about someone welding up the feed ramp and stuffing some nuclear loads in there...I was probably reading one of your posts copied. Do you use brand new brass for those loads? You guys have some amazing insight to this hobby, so I am not taking what you say lightly.

It has been said that many manufacturers produce oversize chambers relative to the saami specs. How oversize I do not know. My glock 3rd gen bbl is at .433" measurement (.002" over saami) while my lone wolf is .426 (under the minimum). It would seem they have tightened up over the years. I still contend this is no reason to fret. If a case has a massive bulge in it, odds are it has been fired with quite a hot load in it. Many of you would not want to fire a case thats been nuked anyway, but at least a glock has the decency to tell you

I am not promoting a lack of due diligence on any reloaders part by playing down the dangers, I just truly think that the .40sw and glock combo have a worse rap than deserved because of the copious amout of them out there.

The polygonal rifling, which has been around for more than a century, also does not deform a bullet as much as land and groove, so much of the firing energy that would go into the deformation process producing drag, is gone, increasing velocity. But I would concede that pressures would be higher due to the better gas seal...although, it the bullet were moving faster due to less drag, couldnt it make the internal cavity volume increase faster and lower pressure? lol, I can see you shaking your head in disgust already.

Clark · February 2, 2011, 11:48 PM

I do a tiny bit of work and then post it over and over for years.

My hypothesis has been that:
1) Glocks pistol design is strong.
2) The 40 S&W case design is very strong
3) Glock has cut deep feed ramp intrusions that left thin case wall unsupported.
4) Glock had over sized inside diameter of chambers that left thin case wall unsupported.

I would like to say that all these problems go away with an after market barrel with good case support. But...
1) Tighter barrels might be more fussy about feeding any ammo.
2) Hot handloads in a well supported chamber can be too much for any practical recoil spring, resulting in:
..a) the slide hammering into the frame
..b) painful recoil.

BDS-THR · February 3, 2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

I would like to say that all these problems go away with an after market barrel with good case support. But...
1) Tighter barrels might be more fussy about feeding any ammo.
2) Hot handloads in a well supported chamber can be too much for any practical recoil spring, resulting in:
..a) the slide hammering into the frame
..b) painful recoil.

Clark, many match shooters have been shooting 40S&W major loads meeting major power factor for quite a few years, often with factory recoil springs. I run my G22 with mid-high range load data and stock recoil springs. My slide rail mount points are fine and recoil is not painful.

"These lists have been gathered from a variety of published and unpublished sources, and have been reported as safe in modern firearms of the types used in IPSC competitions."

Clark · February 3, 2011, 11:48 AM

I should clarify what I mean by "hot".

I made a 48 pound triple recoil spring assembly for my Glock 19 9mm.
The slide accelerates forward so fast the magazine spring can't push up a round, and the trigger cannot reset.
So I put two magazine springs in parallel and a New York trigger.

The stock Glock spring worked well with:
147 gr 5 gr Power Pistol

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

The 48 pound triple recoil spring, double mag spring, and NY trigger work well with:
147 gr 7 gr Power Pistol.

But I want to shoot:
147 gr 11 gr Power Pistol

So what I have is a handgun that I am one of the few guys strong enough to chamber a round or load a magazine, and yet I have to put up with terrible slide slamming into the frame. It hurts, and the cases fly a long ways.

Of course "hot" loads in 40sw are much worse for recoil.

CHM · February 3, 2011, 02:52 PM

My only observation loading 40SW vs some other calibers is that the OAL tolerances are tighter, so I pay more attention to OAL with calipers. You shouldn't have any trouble safely shooting a published load if you keep the powder charge on the lower end of the recommended range, and won't beat up your gun either. Just my 0.02

larry60 · February 3, 2011, 04:19 PM

I am new forums of any kind so if I violate any rules please let me know.
My concerns has to do with reloading for the 40 S&W also. I have been reloading for over thirty years. My past experience has been with shotgun reloading and rifle reloading and for a .357 magnum thirty years ago. I just got into reloading for my 45 acp and now my 40 S&W. I have a thirty year old RCBS press that woks fine, I bought Redding titanium carbide dies in 45acp and starting reloading for my Witness. I made some mistakes but I got them all worked out and am happy that I started reloading for it. I was so impressed with the Redding carbide dies that I bought a set for my 40 S&W. I picked up 400 cases at a gun show and some plated bullets. When I started running the fired cases though my resizing die I found out about the Glock bulge. I had not seen it while reloading for my 45. My lot of my cases were coming out of my die with a wrinkle at the base. After doing some checking on the internet I realized it was because of the Glock bulge. Now I understand that I need to buy another die ( the pass though die ) to solve this problem. But seeing how this wrinkle is occurring as I run the brass into the die I am really unsure a pass though die would solve this problem and would like some first hand experience on the pas though die sorry for the long post.

flyboyjake · February 3, 2011, 06:18 PM

many dies have a beveled lip where the case enters the die to facilitate faster and more error free reloading using a progressive press. It helps the case enter the die at less optimal angles. I use LEE dies (if you have any questions as to their quality, CAMDEX uses their sizing dies in their industrial ammunition making equipment.) They are slightly less angled, and allow the case to be sized closer to the base. Every one of my 40sw cases comes out of that die in sami specs. Go LEE my friend.

February 1, 2011, 07:01 AM	#28
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	loading for over 100 For Glock 40: Rainier 180g TCJ-FP CCI500 / WSP Sized case OAL 1.130"+/-.005" start load 5.4g Power Pistol (recommend MAX 6.0g) Ensure case neck tension. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 3, 2011, 04:19 PM	#37
larry60 Member Join Date: February 3, 2011 Posts: 46	40 S&W bulge I am new forums of any kind so if I violate any rules please let me know. My concerns has to do with reloading for the 40 S&W also. I have been reloading for over thirty years. My past experience has been with shotgun reloading and rifle reloading and for a .357 magnum thirty years ago. I just got into reloading for my 45 acp and now my 40 S&W. I have a thirty year old RCBS press that woks fine, I bought Redding titanium carbide dies in 45acp and starting reloading for my Witness. I made some mistakes but I got them all worked out and am happy that I started reloading for it. I was so impressed with the Redding carbide dies that I bought a set for my 40 S&W. I picked up 400 cases at a gun show and some plated bullets. When I started running the fired cases though my resizing die I found out about the Glock bulge. I had not seen it while reloading for my 45. My lot of my cases were coming out of my die with a wrinkle at the base. After doing some checking on the internet I realized it was because of the Glock bulge. Now I understand that I need to buy another die ( the pass though die ) to solve this problem. But seeing how this wrinkle is occurring as I run the brass into the die I am really unsure a pass though die would solve this problem and would like some first hand experience on the pas though die sorry for the long post.

January 29, 2011, 01:42 PM	#26
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You guys can control your weight a little better of your cast rounds if you control your pot temps more accurately. What happens is the melt gets hotter as the pot empties.

February 1, 2011, 01:43 PM	#29
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	I didnt read all the responses so sorry if I am redundant. Glocks suffer the KB crap not because they are more likely to KB (many pistols have the "unsupported chamber" issue). They are in the limelight because there are 5 times more glock pistols in that caliber than any other single brand. It stands to reason that even with a similar fail rate as another brand, you will see more failures with more guns. If you are nervous get a lone wolf barrel which is supported better and uses button rifling, but I have reloaded over 20k bullets in my glock 22 with brass found at the range and havent had an issue. This is not to say you should, just saying I have, and I feel comfortable doing it. Inspect your brass like you would any other caliber.

February 2, 2011, 01:56 PM	#32
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	Clark, that is amazing. I have read about someone welding up the feed ramp and stuffing some nuclear loads in there...I was probably reading one of your posts copied. Do you use brand new brass for those loads? You guys have some amazing insight to this hobby, so I am not taking what you say lightly. It has been said that many manufacturers produce oversize chambers relative to the saami specs. How oversize I do not know. My glock 3rd gen bbl is at .433" measurement (.002" over saami) while my lone wolf is .426 (under the minimum). It would seem they have tightened up over the years. I still contend this is no reason to fret. If a case has a massive bulge in it, odds are it has been fired with quite a hot load in it. Many of you would not want to fire a case thats been nuked anyway, but at least a glock has the decency to tell you I am not promoting a lack of due diligence on any reloaders part by playing down the dangers, I just truly think that the .40sw and glock combo have a worse rap than deserved because of the copious amout of them out there. The polygonal rifling, which has been around for more than a century, also does not deform a bullet as much as land and groove, so much of the firing energy that would go into the deformation process producing drag, is gone, increasing velocity. But I would concede that pressures would be higher due to the better gas seal...although, it the bullet were moving faster due to less drag, couldnt it make the internal cavity volume increase faster and lower pressure? lol, I can see you shaking your head in disgust already.

February 2, 2011, 11:48 PM	#33
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I do a tiny bit of work and then post it over and over for years. My hypothesis has been that: 1) Glocks pistol design is strong. 2) The 40 S&W case design is very strong 3) Glock has cut deep feed ramp intrusions that left thin case wall unsupported. 4) Glock had over sized inside diameter of chambers that left thin case wall unsupported. I would like to say that all these problems go away with an after market barrel with good case support. But... 1) Tighter barrels might be more fussy about feeding any ammo. 2) Hot handloads in a well supported chamber can be too much for any practical recoil spring, resulting in: ..a) the slide hammering into the frame ..b) painful recoil.

February 3, 2011, 11:48 AM	#35
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I should clarify what I mean by "hot". I made a 48 pound triple recoil spring assembly for my Glock 19 9mm. The slide accelerates forward so fast the magazine spring can't push up a round, and the trigger cannot reset. So I put two magazine springs in parallel and a New York trigger. The stock Glock spring worked well with: 147 gr 5 gr Power Pistol CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. The 48 pound triple recoil spring, double mag spring, and NY trigger work well with: 147 gr 7 gr Power Pistol. But I want to shoot: 147 gr 11 gr Power Pistol So what I have is a handgun that I am one of the few guys strong enough to chamber a round or load a magazine, and yet I have to put up with terrible slide slamming into the frame. It hurts, and the cases fly a long ways. Of course "hot" loads in 40sw are much worse for recoil.

February 3, 2011, 02:52 PM	#36
CHM Member Join Date: June 13, 2005 Posts: 20	My only observation loading 40SW vs some other calibers is that the OAL tolerances are tighter, so I pay more attention to OAL with calipers. You shouldn't have any trouble safely shooting a published load if you keep the powder charge on the lower end of the recommended range, and won't beat up your gun either. Just my 0.02

February 3, 2011, 06:18 PM	#38
flyboyjake Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2010 Posts: 135	many dies have a beveled lip where the case enters the die to facilitate faster and more error free reloading using a progressive press. It helps the case enter the die at less optimal angles. I use LEE dies (if you have any questions as to their quality, CAMDEX uses their sizing dies in their industrial ammunition making equipment.) They are slightly less angled, and allow the case to be sized closer to the base. Every one of my 40sw cases comes out of that die in sami specs. Go LEE my friend.