Smokeless... ?

T.A.Sharps · January 29, 2008, 08:14 PM

Hey,
Just wanted to ask if anyone knows of smokeless powder that is usable in muzzleloaders?

I've read something, I think by Chuck Hawks, talking about using smokeless, but I can't remember what the writer said you could use.

I know there is a rifle that you can use smokeless in, not sure of the manufacturer.

Hawg · January 29, 2008, 08:19 PM

I think it's Savage that makes or at least made an inline that could use smokeless. I also "heard" of a few of them blowing up. Don't try it in anything else unless you have body parts you don't need anymore.

James K · January 29, 2008, 08:26 PM

I think some powders, like Pyrodex, are classified as smokeless powder for shipping, storage and other legal purposes. For many years such powders as DuPont Bulk Smokeless* were sold for use in all muzzle loading arms as well as shotguns made for black powder. They worked well.

The main problem with using conventional smokeless powder in a muzzle loader is that it is very difficult to ignite with conventional percussion caps. Plus, of course, if the shooter were foolish enough to load the same amount of, say, Bullseye, as he normally would black powder, things would become very interesting if the charge did go off.

*Bulk smokeless, so called because it was loaded to the same bulk (not weight) as black powder, was in the form of white granules looking a bit like soap powder. Its use gave rise to terms like "white powder wonder" for some of the early solid barrel shotguns.

Jim

Pahoo · January 29, 2008, 09:12 PM

I too read this and it was an inference and not a suggestion. As far as a smokeless powder in use today, that is designated for the Savage ML10 and is very specific as to what you can use and the last time I looked, there were about four that were designated.
As the "Hawg" states:

Quote:

[Don't try it in anything else unless you have body parts you don't need anymore ]

I know for a fact, that there are folks out there that are playing with this stuff, on a daily basis and that's their gamble. However, for the average person, it's shear folly. Today, there is only one rifle that is designed to shoot smokeless. With all the choices you have, why go there and please don't go there !!!
"Be Safe"

Pathfinder45 · January 29, 2008, 10:57 PM

Why do people wan't to bring smokeless powder into the black powder scene? Another thing like these people that want to violate the spirit of muzzle-loading hunting seasons with modern, scoped, synthetic stocked, inline abominations.... may as well use a .30-30. What the h***?!?

mykeal · January 29, 2008, 11:08 PM

Pyrodex is not classifed as a smokeless powder. It is rather a ''flammable solid". The manufacturer recommends applying the same regulations for storage and transportation as smokeless powder.

While it is true that smokeless powder is more difficult to ignite than black powder or black powder substitutes the main problem is that it produces higher gas pressures at significantly shorter rise times. This higher/faster pressure curve often exceeds the design specifications for black powder cylinder or barrel combustion chambers.

Hawg · January 30, 2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Why do people wan't to bring smokeless powder into the black powder scene? Another thing like these people that want to violate the spirit of muzzle-loading hunting seasons with modern, scoped, synthetic stocked, inline abominations.... may as well use a .30-30. What the h***?!?

I feel the same way but what ya gonna do? I've wrote letters, sent emails, signed petitions all to no avail. Never even got a response from anybody from the Governor on down to the Ms. dept. W,F,and P.

Wild Bill Bucks · January 30, 2008, 09:24 AM

T.A.

If you want to shoot smokeless, make sure the rifle says Savage ML II.
It is the only muzzleloader that has been tested to shoot smokeless from the factory.

January 29, 2008, 08:14 PM	#1
T.A.Sharps Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2007 Posts: 675	Smokeless... ? Hey, Just wanted to ask if anyone knows of smokeless powder that is usable in muzzleloaders? I've read something, I think by Chuck Hawks, talking about using smokeless, but I can't remember what the writer said you could use. I know there is a rifle that you can use smokeless in, not sure of the manufacturer.

January 29, 2008, 08:19 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I think it's Savage that makes or at least made an inline that could use smokeless. I also "heard" of a few of them blowing up. Don't try it in anything else unless you have body parts you don't need anymore.

January 29, 2008, 08:26 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think some powders, like Pyrodex, are classified as smokeless powder for shipping, storage and other legal purposes. For many years such powders as DuPont Bulk Smokeless* were sold for use in all muzzle loading arms as well as shotguns made for black powder. They worked well. The main problem with using conventional smokeless powder in a muzzle loader is that it is very difficult to ignite with conventional percussion caps. Plus, of course, if the shooter were foolish enough to load the same amount of, say, Bullseye, as he normally would black powder, things would become very interesting if the charge did go off. *Bulk smokeless, so called because it was loaded to the same bulk (not weight) as black powder, was in the form of white granules looking a bit like soap powder. Its use gave rise to terms like "white powder wonder" for some of the early solid barrel shotguns. Jim

January 29, 2008, 10:57 PM	#5
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Why do people wan't to bring smokeless powder into the black powder scene? Another thing like these people that want to violate the spirit of muzzle-loading hunting seasons with modern, scoped, synthetic stocked, inline abominations.... may as well use a .30-30. What the h***?!?

January 29, 2008, 11:08 PM	#6
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Pyrodex is not classifed as a smokeless powder. It is rather a ''flammable solid". The manufacturer recommends applying the same regulations for storage and transportation as smokeless powder. While it is true that smokeless powder is more difficult to ignite than black powder or black powder substitutes the main problem is that it produces higher gas pressures at significantly shorter rise times. This higher/faster pressure curve often exceeds the design specifications for black powder cylinder or barrel combustion chambers.

January 30, 2008, 09:24 AM	#8
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	T.A. If you want to shoot smokeless, make sure the rifle says Savage ML II. It is the only muzzleloader that has been tested to shoot smokeless from the factory.